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Walters out


FeelLikeAStranger said:
Sipple is saying lagging recruiting was a contributing factor.
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Interesting. I would have thought development more than recruiting was Walters' shortcoming. The 2019 and 2020 classes both include multiple 4* receivers, though maybe it was Held or Fisher that did more of the work on some of the WR recruits.

What concerned me more with Walters was that we essentially got nothing out of Houston, Chase, or Nance last year. I realize they were True Freshmen, but given our lack of overall talent and depth at the position we needed one or two of them to have some sort of impact.
 



Beareye said:
Interesting. I would have thought development more than recruiting was Walters' shortcoming. The 2019 and 2020 classes both include multiple 4* receivers, though maybe it was Held or Fisher that did more of the work on some of the WR recruits.

What concerned me more with Walters was that we essentially got nothing out of Houston, Chase, or Nance last year. I realize they were True Freshmen, but given our lack of overall talent and depth at the position we needed one or two of them to have some sort of impact.
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I agree 100% with this. We have some highly regarded underclassmen WR that haven't seen much playing time. Morgan and J.D. both had time with Williams, so I think they were producing not because of Walter's, but in spite of him. That's not a shot at coach Walters, just an observation. Outside of J.D. and Robinson nobody could get open.

The swing passes didn't work because our WR could get and sustain blocks. I watched LSU run it during the NCG and said to my wife look at how the WR block!

I'm sure coach Walters is a great dude, but I just don't think he was getting it done to the level that is needed in big boy football.
 
TX Husker said:
I agree 100% with this. We have some highly regarded underclassmen WR that haven't seen much playing time. Morgan and J.D. both had time with Williams, so I think they were producing not because of Walter's, but in spite of him. That's not a shot at coach Walters, just an observation. Outside of J.D. and Robinson nobody could get open.

The swing passes didn't work because our WR could get and sustain blocks. I watched LSU run it during the NCG and said to my wife look at how the WR block!

I'm sure coach Walters is a great dude, but I just don't think he was getting it done to the level that is needed in big boy football.
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Apparently, Frost must have thought the same.
 
Goal-line said:
Apparently, Frost must have thought the same.
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Image result for it's true gif
 




Middle-aged_Ball_Coach said:
Which other defensive coach has failed to develop the players under him? Our DBs and DBs Coach are the best position/position coach on the staff currently, we're about to have a couple D-linemen drafted from this year's group, and there hasn't been enough talent at the LB position to have any realistic gauge for what those coaches can do. Should we fire Ruud just to send some sort of message? I ask that because if you're thinking Chinander--I've said this before, and I'll be saying it as often as necessary--it's NOT going to happen. He's a very good coach, and he and Frost are of the exact same mindset as far as overall scheme.
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I admit I'm not a Chinander fan. Not sure where you're getting "He's a very good coach". His defenses have shown to not able to stop Offenses the way we need to win a B1G championship, let alone the West Division. Even back to his day at UCF, his D allowed allot of points but HCSF Offense was able to 'outscore' their opponents to win. Hence, my mild surprise HCSF was making O coaching Staff changes instead of D staff. In past season, Our Offense was scoring enough points to win but our D couldn't stop most of our opponents. We couldn't even get to the basics and tackle properly!
As I posted a study on how teams with higher ranked Defense more often win National Championships. IMO, Chinander will not get us there. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but don't bank on it, based on his past Defenses he has coached.

NCAA Statistics

stats.ncaa.org

His Total Defense ranking according to NCAA stats:
2016-17: UCF, Defensive Coordinator
2016-17: #39
2017-18: Not in Top 50
2018-present: Nebraska, Defensive Coordinator
2018-19: Not in top 50
2019-20: Not in top 50

I don't think we'll be ranked in the top 50 this coming season either.

This has been discussed many times in past threads:
https://forum.huskermax.com/threads...-wins-in-two-years.114635/page-6#post-4177174
 
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Bean said:
Not sure where you're getting "He's a very good coach". His defenses have shown to not able to stop Offenses the way we need to win a B1G championship, let alone the West Division. Even back to his day at UCF, his D allowed allot of points but HCSF Offense was able to 'outscore' their opponents to win.
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This is clearly the point where our opinions diverge. You're basing his value as a DC mainly on 2 years at Nebraska, where he has yet to have enough components to put together a defense that could do much, and then you're fishing for data points from his time at UCF to back up your opinion. I look at his scheme (very good), his abilities to connect and communicate with his coaches and players (off the charts good), and how he makes adjustments to work with what he has and to change up as things go (not as high as the others, but very much above average, and this is the area that most readily improves with experience). I have a hunch that you're comparing him to a finished product, such as mid-90s Charlie McBride; I'm comparing him to any other DC who is his approximate age and experience, and only the most elite DCs were ahead of his development schedule as a coach. For example, Brent Venables was NOT a great DC until just a few years ago, but you could see the potential was there. Brent Venables was 41 when he was all but pushed out of Oklahoma and went to Clemson to start over; Chinander is 40 years old right now. Dave Aranda is an elite coach, but he wasn't always. He moved up more quickly by working at lesser programs before he went to Wisconsin in 2013 at age 37, and he struggled at first, too.

Give him time, and give him some better players, especially at LB, and your opinion will change. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it many times more: when he leaves Nebraska, it will be due to a promotion to something bigger, and the same people who are bemoaning his defenses now will be the most upset when he's gone.

Bean said:
Maybe he will prove me wrong, but don't bank on it, based on his past Defenses he has coached.
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Would you be interested in making a wager on this?
 
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Middle-aged_Ball_Coach said:
This is clearly the point where our opinions diverge. You're basing his value as a DC mainly on 2 years at Nebraska, where he has yet to have enough components to put together a defense that could do much, and then you're fishing for data points from his time at UCF to back up your opinion. I look at his scheme (very good), his abilities to connect and communicate with his coaches and players (off the charts good), and how he makes adjustments to work with what he has and to change up as things go (not as high as the others, but very much above average, and this is the area that most readily improves with experience). I have a hunch that you're comparing him to a finished product, such as mid-90s Charlie McBride; I'm comparing him to any other DC who is his approximate age and experience, and only the most elite DCs were ahead of his development schedule as a coach. For example, Brent Venables was NOT a great DC until just a few years ago, but you could see the potential was there. Brent Venables was 41 when he was all but pushed out of Oklahoma and went to Clemson to start over; Chinander is 40 years old right now. Dave Aranda is an elite coach, but he wasn't always. He moved up more quickly by working at lesser programs before he went to Wisconsin in 2013 at age 37, and he struggled at first, too.

Give him time, and give him some better players, especially at LB, and your opinion will change. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it many times more: when he leaves Nebraska, it will be due to a promotion to something bigger, and the same people who are bemoaning his defenses now will be the most upset when he's gone.



Would you be interested in making a wager on this?
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Yes, folks forget that he's only been a coordinator at two stops for two years each.
 
Middle-aged_Ball_Coach said:
This is clearly the point where our opinions diverge. You're basing his value as a DC mainly on 2 years at Nebraska, where he has yet to have enough components to put together a defense that could do much, and then you're fishing for data points from his time at UCF to back up your opinion. I look at his scheme (very good), his abilities to connect and communicate with his coaches and players (off the charts good), and how he makes adjustments to work with what he has and to change up as things go (not as high as the others, but very much above average, and this is the area that most readily improves with experience). I have a hunch that you're comparing him to a finished product, such as mid-90s Charlie McBride; I'm comparing him to any other DC who is his approximate age and experience, and only the most elite DCs were ahead of his development schedule as a coach. For example, Brent Venables was NOT a great DC until just a few years ago, but you could see the potential was there. Brent Venables was 41 when he was all but pushed out of Oklahoma and went to Clemson to start over; Chinander is 40 years old right now. Dave Aranda is an elite coach, but he wasn't always. He moved up more quickly by working at lesser programs before he went to Wisconsin in 2013 at age 37, and he struggled at first, too.

Give him time, and give him some better players, especially at LB, and your opinion will change. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it many times more: when he leaves Nebraska, it will be due to a promotion to something bigger, and the same people who are bemoaning his defenses now will be the most upset when he's gone.



Would you be interested in making a wager on this?
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Totally agree. I think Chin along with Fisher are going to really improve the defense. Fisher can lock down the passing game. The Dline played well this year. We were just missing LB's and coaching. I think Chin along with Ruud/Dawson will have them playing better this year. DL will take a step back because of players and the DB's will as well but we're young and hopefully we can play a little more attacking. That will lead to some big misses and TDs for the other team but I think we'll generate TO's and some big sacks.
 



Middle-aged_Ball_Coach said:
This is clearly the point where our opinions diverge. You're basing his value as a DC mainly on 2 years at Nebraska, where he has yet to have enough components to put together a defense that could do much, and then you're fishing for data points from his time at UCF to back up your opinion. I look at his scheme (very good), his abilities to connect and communicate with his coaches and players (off the charts good), and how he makes adjustments to work with what he has and to change up as things go (not as high as the others, but very much above average, and this is the area that most readily improves with experience). I have a hunch that you're comparing him to a finished product, such as mid-90s Charlie McBride; I'm comparing him to any other DC who is his approximate age and experience, and only the most elite DCs were ahead of his development schedule as a coach. For example, Brent Venables was NOT a great DC until just a few years ago, but you could see the potential was there. Brent Venables was 41 when he was all but pushed out of Oklahoma and went to Clemson to start over; Chinander is 40 years old right now. Dave Aranda is an elite coach, but he wasn't always. He moved up more quickly by working at lesser programs before he went to Wisconsin in 2013 at age 37, and he struggled at first, too.

Give him time, and give him some better players, especially at LB, and your opinion will change. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it many times more: when he leaves Nebraska, it will be due to a promotion to something bigger, and the same people who are bemoaning his defenses now will be the most upset when he's gone.



Would you be interested in making a wager on this?
Click to expand...

this is a good reminder that it's just hard to judge a coach based on a couple of years with a set of players that don't really fit his plan for what he wants to do on the field.

If I had a big critique of Chin from this past year, it's that we struggled to figure out that our ILB's couldn't cover against the teams like Indiana and Purdue that put a lot of guys out, and we've struggled at figuring out how to get our ILB's, OLB's and Safeties to fill gaps on run defense (what Minny did to our LB's was painful in the extreme on one end, and what Indiana did to them was painful on the other end of the spectrum). I'm hopeful that some of that gets fixed as Chin has more options and better talent.

I think we can recruit at a high enough level to compete defensively with most teams in the country (if not with the LSU's, Bama's and Clemsons), but I also think the walk on program gives us a chance to build more scheme depth by having hybrid players to fit for different teams and situations (e.g., going heavier or lighter depending on team and down). I am hoping we see more of that kind of ability to adjust next year
 

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