Are you 13? Sure act like it.
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Could Nebraska be talked into returning to the Big 12?
- Thread starter WestTexasHusker
- Start date
I’m of the opinion that the decision to move to the Big 10 was the best one at the time, considering all of the facts, but it turned out to be a pretty awful decision. We aren’t competitive in much of anything except volleyball, a decade later.
Making a sound decision, and that decision turning out to be the wrong one, are not mutually exclusive. I’ve done it many times.
Making a sound decision, and that decision turning out to be the wrong one, are not mutually exclusive. I’ve done it many times.
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Got it. There's your argument.
Now, back on topic....
Do you have any evidence--can include insinuations, hints, whiffs-of-a-clue--that in all of the wheeling and dealing that has gone on over the past few decades of conference realignment, has the B1G EVER sat down and talked with Oklahoma representatives? OU has talked with SEC and PAC folks, how about the B1G? I'm not aware of it. Besides those who have joined the conference already, the B1G has at least had informal meetings with folks from the following: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse (multiple times going back to the 50s); Texas (at least twice on separate occasions), North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech, and Boston College. There are unconfirmed rumors that the B1G has also spoke with Kentucky and possibly Virginia Tech (in connection with coming in together with UVA) and possibly Duke (in connection with coming in with UNC). Everything listed after Boston College is just conjecture and hearsay as far as I can tell.
What about Oklahoma? What about that mighty football program that they would supposedly be so eager to add? Why aren't they even showing up in the rumors ... ever?
You’re wrong about Notre Dames scheduling but still won’t admit you’re wrong. Got it!
A rumor is just that a rumor. Like you said all hearsay.
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So ... you got nothin'. Got it.
Now you can get back to the more important issue of rehashing other arguments and discussing my age.
So you’re not going to admit you’re wrong?
Got it.
If you honestly believe the the Big 10 wouldn’t take Oklahoma you have a screw loose.
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I admit when I'm wrong all the time. What you're looking for is someone to admit that they're wrong because they disagree with you. It's not the same.
I can assure you that I have no screws that are loose or missing, but thanks for your concern.
As for the B1G and Oklahoma, it is absolutely an open and unanswered question as to whether or not either would be interested in the other. I'll restate things, and feel free to correct me whenever/wherever I'm wrong:
- Oklahoma has a fantastic football history and a solid program now,... but they're not a very good fit, culturally. Neither side of that is likely to change in the near future. Having and emphasizing an academic culture is huge in the B1G, and it always has been. It's why schools like the University of Chicago, Northwestern, and Purdue were early members, and why Chicago was and still is the center of the conference. The University of Chicago dropped its football program when it felt like it was getting in the way of its academics; the B1G admired that. Today, Johns Hopkins is a partial member of the B1G for the same reasons. Nobody is ever going to confuse the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, and Purdue with Oklahoma. Oklahoma is a good school, but I've never heard anybody ever include it in any sort of "elite" category when it comes to anything other than sports.
- I was and am very willing to admit that Nebraska's academic reputation wasn't up to what the B1G typically wants to showcase either, and that was a serious issue/drawback for the B1G, but Oklahoma's academic reputation is, at the very least, no better than Nebraska's. B1G officials specifically stated and emphasized that Nebraska's historical record of showcasing academics first with their athletes (thus all of the academic all-Americans and the traditionally high levels of student-athletes graduating) and their program's integrity in relation to NCAA rules were enough to remove the academic side of things from being an issue. Oklahoma can lean on neither, to put it charitably.
- The conference doesn't want to expand by adding a team that would dilute the revenues from the current schools, so every new addition must represent a net gain in revenue, which would mostly mean TV contract revenue. While Nebraska as a state only added the Omaha-Lincoln area within the state, the alums also brought Kansas City into the BTN mix. All that Oklahoma can reasonably add is Oklahoma City and Tulsa, which are fine, but don't exactly move the needle. A chunk of the Dallas TV market would also be included.
- Oklahoma isn't contiguous to any current B1G member. The B1G leadership has bluntly stated that that would be an issue, not just for Oklahoma, but for any other potential addition.
- There is no evidence that exists today in so much as a whispered rumor that the B1G has ever expressed even the slightest bit of interest in Oklahoma as a future member of the B1G. This might not be that significant, except that there are over a dozen other schools where the B1G has sat down with their representatives to discuss that possibility, even though some of those schools were already in a conference, and even though some of those would have been much more far-fetched than an Oklahoma, who will always play second fiddle to the interests and revenues of a Texas-dominated conference that hasn't been on secure footing.
Now I'd like your best evidence. Your feelings don't count.
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I’m not asking you to admit you’re wrong on my say so but on Ducks irrefutable evidence.
1 The weakest academic school in the Big 10 is Nebraska. Even if they had lost their status prior to joining they would have been accepted. Nor do I hear Nebraska mentioned as an elite school.
2 I’m sure when considering Nebraska the only thing considered was the athletic program. I heard about both Oklahoma and Nebraska what keeps them off if AAU schools is the fact they have off campus research facilities. OU Medical Center would have OU in the AAU if it were on campus.
3 The University if Oklahoma has huge amounts of alumni’s living in not only the DFW area but Houston as well. The number of eyeballs would be large not only in Oklahoma but Texas as well.
4 I doubt being contiguous would be much of a factor. I would like to see a link where this was “bluntly stated”.
5. The Big 12 is on solid footing. I have never heard mention that they wouldn’t consider Oklahoma. I’m not really sure how we’re playing second fiddle to Texas but would love to see some facts, not opinions on this matter. If the Big 10 would let Oklahoma go to the SEC and add to the existing juggernaut that exist without trying to woe them they would be pretty short sighted.
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Sterling reputation? Not exactly true. Penn State and Ohio State for example. However, remaining B1G teams, no major NCAA violations (I think). OU had a couple of major violations in the past.
I don't like cheaters schools (PSU, tOSU, OU).
The antecedent matters. "Its" referred to "Nebraska's." Everything you just typed wasn't related to that.
I don't know that the bolded part is true. It's been debated. I'm curious why it is that you seem so darn certain of your opinions on these things? That's a reoccurring theme: that your opinion carries weight. Unless you're a B1G university president who is slumming in his free time on a Huskers' fan board, your opinion just isn't that important. Back it up with something ... other than more of your opinions.
What makes you so "sure?" Again, why do you think that your opinion would carry any weight? Why do you think that anybody reading this is just going to take your word for it?
On the other hand, here's a summary of what B1G Commissioner Delany, Nebraska Chancellor Perlman, and Nebraska AD Osborne said about that aspect of the application process as it pertained to Nebraska's candidacy for joining the B1G:
Perlman said Delany reiterated that “this shouldn’t be regarded as any more than sitting down for a chat.” He was holding similar meetings with other schools.
Asked last week where NU’s bid ranked then, Delany said it would have been inaccurate to say the school was “not on the horizon” or “in the lead” — it was just in the mix.
The next four hours, however, changed that.
The Big Ten contingent went through a PowerPoint presentation detailing the Big Ten, its TV network, projections on future revenues, conference traditions and values and what it was looking for in a new member.
Then it was Nebraska’s turn.
Perlman said he and Osborne were definitely trying to sell Delany on Nebraska. Even though they weren’t sure the Big Ten was right for NU, they felt it was important to keep the option alive.
Perlman said he was upfront on why Nebraska was there, concerned about NU’s vulnerability in the Big 12 and intrigued by the Big Ten.
Osborne and Perlman had decided against PowerPoints or flashy videos playing the school fight song. They talked through what they thought were the “high points” of Nebraska and went through a series of documents outlining information requested by the Big Ten.
They covered the school’s guiding principles, budget, facilities, plans, NCAA compliance, future schedules and media deals. The university has declined to disclose the documents it offered, saying they are exempt from the state’s open records law.
A key message Perlman wanted to convey was that at Nebraska, “we try to do things the right way.” He and Osborne cited the school’s record number of academic All-Americans and sterling compliance record.
Delany was struck by how well Nebraska’s profile fit those of top-tier programs in the Big Ten: Iconic brand. AAU membership. Broad-based athletic program. Strong value on sportsmanship.
“I saw a lot of things familiar to me,” he said.
But the comfort level went beyond the school.
Going in, Delany had been just vaguely acquainted with Osborne and Perlman. But he liked how the two Nebraskans presented themselves.
He was particularly struck by how concerned Perlman and Osborne were about making sure the cultures of the Big Ten and Nebraska meshed — a concern born in the less-than-ideal marriage between the old Big Eight and the Texas schools.
Delany recalls Osborne saying at one point during the culture discussion, “There are some things that are more important than money.”
In this case, Delany saw a great cultural fit. It’s safe to say that Nebraska’s stock had climbed considerably, he said last week.
“It clicked on both of our ends,” he said.
Then while the attorneys went over Nebraska’s media contracts, and Osborne and Traviolia discussed more detailed athletic matters, Delany and Perlman went for a walk.
Delany told Perlman he was not prepared to make any commitments. But Perlman recalls a statement from Delany he took as very encouraging: “All I can say is from what we see, the culture, the aspirations and the tenor of Nebraska seem to fit what we are looking for in the Big Ten.”
It was enough to convince Perlman the Big Ten was now seriously interested in Nebraska.
Those interviews were all done after Nebraska was already accepted into the B1G, yet Delany did nothing to sugarcoat things to make it sound like Nebraska had the inside track from the beginning, which would be the typical, political thing to do. If anything he did the opposite. So, he doesn't agree with you....
If I have to choose between the words of the B1G commissioner and some anonymous Oklahoma Sooners fan on a Nebraska fan website as to what mattered/matters more in choosing new B1G conference members, I'm going to go with Delany on that one. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.
On a related note, are you aware that in the B1G it is the school presidents who are the people who hire/fire and direct the conference commissioner, and who basically direct how things are done? The ADs only have as much influence as the individual school presidents wish to give them, and traditionally that has been so little that Bo Schembechler retired from being AD at Michigan when he didn't find out about Penn State being added until after it was in the newspapers. Nobody from Michigan ever apologized to him for that. It was out of his pay grade. The B1G commissioner is hired to work in direct concert with his bosses, the school presidents of the B1G. Several of those weren't very excited about adding Nebraska, which they eventually made known by voting to remove them from the AAU.
When divvying up the TV money, I have a hard time believing that Oklahoma fans would move the needle of the Houston market relative to UT fans, A&M fans, Houston Cougars fans, and even Rice fans.They represent 4 separate conferences. Then again, I will have to bow to your expertise in this area because ... well, we're not sure, but clearly, your opinions matter. Even then, I don't know that it's an obvious slam dunk that Oklahoma would bring in more in revenue than what they'd take away by further diluting what the other teams divvy up. You don't know either, but I expect that you'll be "sure" about it.
Delany made that comment in relation to interest in adding Texas. I don't remember when. If you care, you can Google it. I fell for that with you once before, and then you just moved the goal posts anyway.
I guess that we're going to have to define what is meant by "solid footing" before we can agree or disagree on that part, but let's set that aside and talk about your relationship with Texas....
When's the last time that Oklahoma disagreed with anything that Texas wanted? Sincere question, fwiw, because I don't know the answer. What I have seen is Oklahoma repeatedly falling in line with whatever Texas has wanted, going back to when the Big 12 was being formed and going all of the way through Nebraska being asked to commit to the same Big 12 conference that Texas was in the process of negotiating to leave. Oklahoma has always looked like UT's lap dog in every conference squabble. Oklahoma is so dependent upon the state of Texas for recruiting that I don't think it would be wise for Oklahoma to ever do anything that would sever them from playing in, with, and against Texas universities as much as possible. Even, in theory, if Oklahoma wanted to join the B1G without Texas, they dropoff in recruiting would be exponentially greater than what Nebraska experienced because Nebraska was already recruiting more widely than just Texas at that time.
Again, based on your opinion? The B1G doesn't want to add another school with a history of NCAA infractions, and it especially doesn't want to water down its academic expectations to do so. As I said, Alabama has a better football history and current program than Oklahoma, but the B1G wouldn't be interested in them either.
You also never acknowledged the oddity that there is no rumors, let alone evidence, that the B1G has ever expressed even the slightest interest in adding Oklahoma. You seem to think that that doesn't matter, but every other team that was eventually added to the B1G came after earlier contacts and discussions. It doesn't just happen on its own. What does it tell you that they have clearly been more interested in Texas than Oklahoma? They've talked with Texas, multiple times, going back as far as when Penn State was added. Oklahoma? Nope. Never.
Now, your turn to respond. If you could offer more than your very firm opinions as evidence for anything that you say that is controversial, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Same reason you so darn certain about your opinion. So much of what you post is just your opinion and in your mind that’s all that counts. You’re still wrong about Notre Dame. And that’s not opinion that is fact per Duck. Did you admit it somewhere and I missed it?
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Nebraska U ...... used to be AAU member but changed the rule ...... year after UNL had joined B1G. I think medical program issues. UNL and University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha are completely different schools. Thus Nebraska was not qualified (AAU rules)
https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/our-members
Only 61 AAU schools; 37 FBS. B1G = Intelligent Conference ...... 13 out of 14 AAU members. Bevo Conference? Only two qualified. Thus, B12 = Dummy Conference
.
BTW, Colorado, Missouri, A&M and used to be Nebraska, all AAU's club, left Big 12.
Notre Dame is not listed. Could be medical issues too, like Nebraska.
Lots of FCS/Div.2-3/NAIA schools. Brandies, Case Western Reserve, Emory, McGill universities ...... I never heard of this AAU schools.
https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/our-members
Only 61 AAU schools; 37 FBS. B1G = Intelligent Conference ...... 13 out of 14 AAU members. Bevo Conference? Only two qualified. Thus, B12 = Dummy Conference
.BTW, Colorado, Missouri, A&M and used to be Nebraska, all AAU's club, left Big 12.
Notre Dame is not listed. Could be medical issues too, like Nebraska.
Lots of FCS/Div.2-3/NAIA schools. Brandies, Case Western Reserve, Emory, McGill universities ...... I never heard of this AAU schools.
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Michigan State has had some recent issues too.
If I say something controversial, I give references or explain the logic. You are prone to just making sweeping statements--"I’m sure when considering Nebraska the only thing considered was the athletic program"--then when I quote the B1G commissioner and UNL Chancellor saying something to the contrary,... you go back to a similar pointless argument in a different thread where you did the same thing.
I have a change of topic with a sincere question: Why are you even here? What's your connection to Nebraska? It seems so sad that you're hanging out on another team's fan board. It's not like you're adding much here. Isn't there a Sooner fan board that will have you? What's the deal?
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