Dr. Rob Zatechka

[CornhuskerinWI]

My quote "no one had it worse than Bo Pelini" was not solely related to talent on the team. I said Pelini inherited more talent than Riley, and Riley inherited more talent than Frost. You are arguing a point I agree with.

You and I agree on part of my point - the level of talent Pelini had. But that's it. I would make a rebuttal about your reading comprehension remark and your reading comprehension, but this thread is salty enough and it really is pointless.

No, I don't agree that nobody had it worse than Pelini. Frost has it worse than Pelini did, IMO. You have your reasons why you think one way, I have my reasons why I think the other. You say that Pelini had more talent, but they were culturally/mentally/administratively worse. My argument is that it's easier to rebuild a culture of success/accountability when you have a roster that's jam packed w/ elite level athletes who, I say, based on how many moved onto the NFL, showed a willingness to develop elite level attitude. It elevates the game and expectations from everyone around them. Couple that w/ somebody like Bo and you've got a team that competes and also develops players. Not surprising that Bo had the early success that he had (not that it was a given).

 

[ShortSideOption]

You and I agree on part of my point - the level of talent Pelini had. But that's it. I would make a rebuttal about your reading comprehension remark and your reading comprehension, but this thread is salty enough and it really is pointless.

No, I don't agree that nobody had it worse than Pelini. Frost has it worse than Pelini did, IMO. You have your reasons why you think one way, I have my reasons why I think the other. You say that Pelini had more talent, but they were culturally/mentally/administratively worse. My argument is that it's easier to rebuild a culture of success/accountability when you have a roster that's jam packed w/ elite level athletes who, I say, based on how many moved onto the NFL, showed a willingness to develop elite level attitude. It elevates the game and expectations from everyone around them. Couple that w/ somebody like Bo and you've got a team that competes and also develops players. Not surprising that Bo had the early success that he had (not that it was a given).

Sounds good. For clarification, since you are counting UFL picks as evidence of good talent Pelini inherited, do I get to count XFL selections?

 

[winnerwinner]

He is just saying we basically have no depth at a lot of places. He is saying it will take a lot of time.

We don't have a true outside WR or a true every down back. We have slot receivers. We are trying to run the ball with 3rd down backs. Washington and Robinson are 3rd down backs. Which I completely agree with. I have already said a, couple of times since Saturday, every team we play has a RB that is 6' tall and is 215 and knows how to run zone read. Minnesota had 3 backs that looked like that. Wisconsin has 3 backs that look like that. Iowa has a couple. OSU has several. He said we don't run zone plays very well and basically most B1G teams do it fairly well. Last year we had 1 back, Ozigbo, that looked like that and ran the zone plays wells.

Defensively we have no depth at LB and it is showing.

He just believes it will take time. He thinks it will take 3-4 in the weight room to really compete he thinks they are stronger but still need more. Still behind somewhat from playing in the Big 12. Had a defense built to stop Big 12 offenses.

Getting back to the original topic, for me, there are things that are absolutely within the control of the football team and coaches, regardless of talent, scheme, or whatever evil seed was planted by previous staff.

Until this football team plays with good technique, good game day organization, minimizes penalties, holds players accountable no matter what, and develops players week to week, then it won’t really matter what ranking of talent we get or what scheme we run.

We’ve seen this movie play out three times before now.

 

[CornhuskerinWI]

You went back 12 months to find that and forgot to read the fine print, again. That list doesn't include other guys Frost inherited such as Stanley Morgan Jr., Tanner Farmer, Jerald Foster, Luke Gifford, Dedrick Young, and Cole Conrad. 6 guys that signed with NFL teams, which typically I wouldn't use as criteria for "good talent inherited" but since you got to use it to tell me Chris Brooks was good talent inherited i'll use it here.

We are really getting away from ourselves tho... Pelini had the best talent inherited, then Riley, then Frost. Not sure what you are trying to prove here. Not sure why you are on a quest to prove how bad Frost's guys are. I don't think we are that great. But I can tell you that per recruiting rankings dictated by offers and camps 2018 Nebraska had better talent than Colorado, Troy, Purdue, and Northwestern, but we lost. 2019 Nebraska had more talent than Colorado and Minnesota, but we lost. Let's say not all of those are right, and only 50% of them are. We have lost to teams with worse talent than us at some point in Frost's tenure. Heck, we even lost to a team that fired their coach after how bad 2018 went.

At some point, this ain't Riley's fault.

I didn't miss any fine print. If I was talking about last year's team, they would be relevant. We're talking about the 2019 Nebraska Cornhuskers and, unfortunately, those guys aren't on this team. That's exactly my point. I'm not surprised we're struggling. Where was the depth to replace 6 guys that were signed by NFL teams? It doesn't exist at this point. It wasn't developed. Can I say that Frost will for sure develop that kind of depth? No. (I truly believe he will) Can you blame him that the depth doesn't exist? No. Well, unless you fault him for the mass exodus of players from last year's team, which I don't. Maybe you do.

The talent/depth issue is Riley's fault until Frost has a proper two-deep built. He wasn't going to build an experienced, more talented, and deep roster in one full recruiting cycle. I'm not saying everything is Riley's fault either. There's no reason that penalties and basic mistakes are happening so frequently. Simple coaching mistakes. That's on Frost.

You also had a great post a year ago about how recruiting rankings don't mean squat. I posted it in another thread, but it applies to how we "have better talent than all those other teams". Probably true if you're saying that talent has been developed at the same rate over the same duration, but that hasn't been the case. Which is the exact point you made a year ago in your post. You completely changed your tune from last year to this year. That's one of the reasons a team w/ the #40 recruiting class puts a beating on a team w/ the #25 recruiting class.

There's no quest. You said you're tired of hearing about the lack of talent on our team - that it's a poor excuse. I'm saying it's true and it's a reason. Not the only reason. Just a reason.

 

[solesrfr]

Yes, it was. That's what Rob and others have been trying to delicately point out.

Then a lot that is on SF and his staff as they have been at NU for 22 months and many starters are his guys.


C

 

[CornhuskerinWI]

Sounds good. For clarification, since you are counting UFL picks as evidence of good talent Pelini inherited, do I get to count XFL selections?

You realize I just copy and pasted a list. But sure, you can count XFL selections.

Should we compare draft picks rather than undrafted FAs? Compare player to player? We can literally compare in any way you want because there's only one conclusion.

 

[solesrfr]

There is more than enough talent on this years team to beat CU and MN. If there is still a culture problem after 22 months then that is on SF and not MR. Penalties, sound technique, fumbles, poor angles, poor tackling, etc... are all on SF and his staff, not the previous staff.



C

 

[Trojan Husker]

I get it.... I'll just say nothing was worse than what Pelini took over, and he took us from sub .500 to 9 wins in the first year.

Considering Callahan's recruits, including Prince Amukamara, Roy Helu, Alex Henery, Niles Paul, Eric Hagg, Matt Slauson, Ndamukong freaking Suh, and others who played in the NFL... I think what Pelini took over in 2008 was considerably different from what Frost got in 2018. There's no comparison. Riley never got anything like Callahan's 2005 recruiting class, and most of his best recruits quit or transferred to Oregon State. Frost has been dealt a much, much worse hand than Pelini in 2008.

 

[Trojan Husker]

Is someone claiming Pelini didn't inherit good talent? Tell that person they are a moron.

I must be confused the same way these other people are. It sounded like you were saying Pelini didn't have it any worse than Frost. But it sure seems like he had a lot more talent on that 2008 team than Frost has inherited. He also had Tom Osborne as his athletic director, who I'm sure was very supportive to his cause. What was so bad for Pelini at the time? I'm sure it was hell dealing with Shawn Eichorst, but that guy didn't show up until 2012.

 

[Maverick]

I must be confused the same way these other people are. It sounded like you were saying Pelini didn't have it any worse than Frost. But it sure seems like he had a lot more talent on that 2008 team than Frost has inherited. He also had Tom Osborne as his athletic director, who I'm sure was very supportive to his cause.

I get the confusion, but he's repeated more than once that he meant the situation each inherited, not just talent. I get what he's saying though I don't necessarily agree. I personally think Riley inherited the worst situation to succeed personally (poisoned wells aren't exactly a problem meant for a coach to diffuse where motivation/talent/development is).

 

[Trojan Husker]

I get the confusion, but he's repeated more than once that he meant the situation each inherited, not just talent. I get what he's saying though I don't necessarily agree.

I guess I'm still not seeing what was bad about Pelini's situation. The team was one year removed from playing in the Big 12 championship, we had a big facilities upgrade in 2006 with the Tom and Nancy Osborne Athletic Complex, and even Osborne himself was there as athletic director to support Bo with whatever he needed. Frost has a good situation with Moos as AD, but other than that it feels like Bo had a way better setup in 2008. But maybe there are other factors I just don't know about.

 

[Trojan Husker]

I personally think Riley inherited the worst situation to succeed personally (poisoned wells aren't exactly a problem meant for a coach to diffuse where motivation/talent/development is).

And I agree, Riley inherited a completely toxic situation. Not only that, but Pelini didn't seem to recruit as well near the end of his tenure. Maybe it was the switch to the Big Ten and navigating that whole transition, but the recruiting seemed to dip.

 

[solesrfr]

I get the confusion, but he's repeated more than once that he meant the situation each inherited, not just talent. I get what he's saying though I don't necessarily agree. I personally think Riley inherited the worst situation to succeed personally (poisoned wells aren't exactly a problem meant for a coach to diffuse where motivation/talent/development is).

That was a tough situation MR walked into. I was a big supporter of Bo as I felt he did some really good things. I also feel he did have some shortcomings such as too much assistant loyalty, temper, and not giving recruiting the attention and resources it requires. That exit tape to the players that I have listened to a few times just split that locker room right in half though. No reason for him to do that, not an easy position for a new coach coming in. I don't think SF has even close to that kind of issue although there are some glaring deficiencies scattered throughout the team and coaching. After 22 months and 7 games into the second season this team does not look well coached at times and at certain positions.

One thing for sure, SF will probably get it turned around by this time next year.


C

 

[Trojan Husker]

double post, sorry

 

[ShortSideOption]

You realize I just copy and pasted a list. But sure, you can count XFL selections.

Should we compare draft picks rather than undrafted FAs? Compare player to player? We can literally compare in any way you want because there's only one conclusion.

I don’t really care what you compare. Because when I said Bo inherited the worst situation, you went on a quest to show he had more talent inherited compared to Frost. Which I have actually stated. So you are backing my opinion.