This one will be locked in short order as well.
Shocking how many of these occurrences go back to the same handful of people.
Shocking how many of these occurrences go back to the same handful of people.
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Winter conditioning seems safe this year
- Thread starter EastOfEden
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If you are a coach and have zero experience with sending folks to the hospital with what you have been doing your whole career...all 2% of them....you still think you did something that wrong? I suppose we suspend Zach and keep him and that makes people feel better? I just don't get it. I don't believe anyone wanted it to happen. I believe the coaches felt it would not happen based on their pasts. I don't think anything was dealt with wrong. If it were a pattern then fine, something is broken but this literally just was a year of people coming and going and I think the Oregon issue was also in transition. I would look into that as a possible reason rather than to just go after someone. Can't be easy for anyone involved. But I totally understand aiming for zero.
The Marland situation was different. The kid was obviously in trouble and the staff not only did not send him to the hospital. They delayed it calling him names for not trying and kept pushing him. All indications are that when our staff saw the kids were ihn trouble they immediately got them to the hospital ASAP. Clear difference.
Living in DC we have had a lot of detail in the MD case. The issue was not that the kid got into trouble. Multiple teammates went to the coaches and told him the kid was not OK. Instead of pulling him out of the workout they continued to push him. No players have come out at NE saying the coaches did not immediately react when the kids were found to be in trouble.
I live in DC too. My point was in response to the idea that it was “only two.” And while “all indications” are staff responded well, I am hoping a real administrative investigation was done on why it happened and whether staff did respond appropriately. No reason to think that didn’t happen.
ShortSideOption
Guest
I guess that's my issue... we keep referring to Oregon as if that is the similarity. Oregon had a first time strength coach have this exact same thing happen, and suspended him immediately. The only correlation between Oregon and Nebraska here was the transition class. Keeping up with the numbers game you are throwing out, why are we not comparing it to the transitions at Texas, Texas A&M, Minnesota, etc. where nothing happened?
I certainly am not advocating anyone wanted this to happen, and that's not what i'm trying to relay. I actually could have moved on from them being hospitalized rather quickly if not for how our coaches and fans started to look at it. "We even scaled the initial workout back" turned into our fans going "see, look how bad of shape we are in, no wonder we went 4-8" with no responsibility for what happened going to the adults orchestrating the workout. It was shocking to me how many people instantly gravitated to it as a reason for past failures instead of going with a "woah, a coach shouldn't be having that happen." Especially in today's society. A 400k coach probably needs to be able to oversee what is happening. Owen last summer was contemplating getting a lawyer involved, i'm hoping they just paid his hospital bills and both parted ways.
Long story short for me, your defense of what happened is what puzzles me so much. "It was only 2% of our players", "it was a transition year", "it hadn't happened before", those are all things used to not hold the adults making six figure salaries responsible for the result. As your last sentence states, the target and expectation is zero. Which is why 99% of teams in America get that done year after year, transition class or not. It's also why your stance on it (and you aren't dissimilar to others) is eye-opening to me. When you pile this on to some of the other things that happened or were said in our weight room last year, it was extremely exciting to see the blind optimism. It also was a bit alarming.
This is probably key to the whole issue. When they saw the signs they stopped and got them the help they needed. Were they a little delayed? Quite possibly. Having been in the medical field for 20 years as a paramedic I can tell you that not everyone's symptoms are as easily seen. In some cases they aren't seen at all until it happens. I'm not saying they were right or wrong but I think there is something to say about their response to the issue in what could have appeared to be the earliest of stages of recognition.
ShortSideOption
Guest
They got put in a tough situation. Like I said, I was probably gonna just chalk it up to some kids showing up out of shape. I was shocked at how we handled it happening and the narrative by the fan base.
But I’ll take optimism over pessimism any day.
Familiarity with the athletes will reduce these type of instances as well. Face it, different guys react to this type of mental and physical challenge in a unique manner. Some are drama queens, some puke easily and often, some suffer in silence (to the point they shouldn’t). If I have a kid who is out of shape, AND a drama queen, I could see the staff not taking the athlete’s discomfort as seriously as they should have. The same would be true if they had someone pushing themselves beyond what they should, and be suffering in silence. The assumption someone is just a beast might cause them to miss there was a serious medical issue brewing.
I’m sure there were mistakes made that will be less likely to occur this year, for multiple reasons.
ShortSideOption
Guest
Probably wouldn’t even know how to do the workout at that salary.
New place, new digs, new salary, new pressures.... Might not have truly been the UCF workout. Muscles were worked.
Sincere question:. Are you a fan of Duvall? Because part of your post praises him a lot and then the next part criticizes him. I honestly can't tell.
ShortSideOption
Guest
I am a fan of our head coach and administration all pulling in the same direction for our S&C staff. So whoever Scott chooses for that, i'm cool with. But anyone that has followed me in regard to S&C talk on here, my #1 pain point for any program is injury prevention. And that is my main issue with what is going on now, as we are doing things in the weight room that cause injury, and our injuries in 2018 were probably the worst i've seen in a decade. That being said, whether it be due to the injuries or just from other data collected, we have started to incorporate things that help with injury prevention that our strength coaches were very much against publicly. I'm glad to see that, but our core values may be too much to overcome for those things to be effective.
I don't take much from year 1 in a strength program, which is why I don't harp on the injuries unless i'm giving an analysis or someone asks me. I do find it interesting that fans think we all of a sudden don't have soft-tissue injuries just because Frost doesn't talk about them unless they are season ending. Good on them for figuring that out in North Stadium. There can be a lot that is bad from a previous regime, you need a good 18 months to dictate anything. I don't really agree with how we go about things, but as long as kids are staying on the field in 2019, i'll have no issue. The #1 way to get better is to play football and not be sitting out. If we go year 2 like they did at UCF and have zero injuries (still find that hard to believe), Duval will go down as a genius in my eyes. I just don't see that happening with what we do. The good news is with how we train, our players will absolutely look the part.
Simply, i'm not a Duval guy in terms of how we train. But more than that, I love our coaches and administration not stepping on each others toes and all pulling in the same direction. Whoever is on that train going in the same direction, i'm cool with.
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