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Where *** was wrong

This is true. Mills was in retrospect the most necessary piece of the offense coming back. He isn't a great back, but he's pretty good. The young guys still have a lot to learn.

...I was about to say that this falls on Held, then. It just sucks that our 2nd best/most experienced back is a WR.
Mills eventually got his eyes right, hopefully Scott and the other youngsters do it soon. I think Held needs more time as I think about it, though.

We are starting to having our "dudes" on OL play more regularly. Piper, Ben, CJ (minus the erratic snaps) are dudes, plus some that haven't played yet/played much, yet.
We are getting closer and have recruited well there. I think Scott and hopefully RT/Morrison should be good. Scott has the strength and pop to run as FB once in awhile, I'd think. It isn't like we have donkeys back there. They're like Mills was until the light bulb clicked on.
I think we have WRs who are willing to block. The dudes at that position are young, or they're not as dynamic.
That's my attempt at seeing the positive side of this ugliness.
 

***, do you think the problem could be as "simple" as Nebraska just doesn't have a downhill running back Frost is comfortable with giving 20+ carries? Maybe it's just me, but Mills hasn't impressed me at all. Combine that with the other guys being young or coming off injuries, and Frost's reticence to give Wan'Dale 20+ carries a game for fear he'll get injured, I don't think Nebraska actually has a #1 downhill running back on the depth chart.

It's like we've got the reverse problem Osborne had with the "We Backs" many years ago. Back then he had two, Frost doesn't have any lol
 
So I'm finally breaking the seal after not sure how many years. I've been lurking since the Pelini days finally paid awhile back and regularly visit the site but have yet to post. So hello everyone and here is what I have come up with:

I have followed the Huskers since the early 80's and have seen the good teams, the great teams, the average teams and the bad teams. I'm a numbers guy and always look there first for answers.

The Frost era has been the complete opposite of what my expectations were from W-L, offensive prowess, strength and conditioning, and recruiting. My guess is that is the majority of what people are thinking so what gives?

For me, the starting place of any team is don't beat yourself and don't be easy to beat. I think that Frost coming from the PAC 12 and AAC got comfortable with being able to live with and recover from errors. The B1G and the B1G-west in particular is filled with teams that prey on mistakes. Iowa, Wisconsin, and Northwestern will never out athlete you and depend on winning the small battles to win the game. Unfortunately Frost's teams play right into their hands.

In Frost's tenure, NU is 1-12 when we have lost the turn over battle. They are 7-2 when they win the turnover battle and 2-5 when turn overs are even. This is football 101 and hard to believe that a TO player would have numbers like this. Again, I think that in the PAC and AAC this isn't as big of a deal because the other teams will likely give you presents right back whereas B1G wait for these opportunities and then hammer you.

The second number that is striking is the third down battle. Frost teams are PATHETIC on 3rd down %. NU has only won the third down conversion battle in 8 of his 27 games (29.6%). This year is particularly bad as NU is converting 32% of their third downs while our opponents are converting at a 49.4% rate. There are a lot of things that go into conversion rate but I feel the biggest one is unforced errors. While watching Frost's teams I have found myself expecting at least one negative play on every drive. This could be a penalty, bad snap, fumble. I would love to know the percentage of clean dives we have and then what our scoring rate is on those drives. I was surprised to see that NU is about even in the penalty battle. I would have guessed us to be much worse than our opponents. This year we are 0-5 in the penalty battle meaning we have had more penalties than our opponent in every game. Over Frost's tenure they are 12-15-2 in the penalty battle. The acceptance of bad snaps is mind boggling as they are worse than a penalty. Not only do you lose yards but the down as well. Any bad snap means that the offense only gets two downs to go 13+ yards.

The third problem I see is Frost's lack of game management experience. He has been a head coach for two years in the AAC and not played in a lot of closely contested games where small decisions can be the difference between winning and losing. He is 4-11 in one possession games. If he just flipped that number and went 11-4 in those games, his record goes from 10-19 to 17-12 and likely has two bowl games under his belt to boot.

What this leads me to is that there is hope that this can get quite a bit better with some simple fixes. We all know the problems that the program had when Frost came in. As @ShortSideOption continues to point out, those excuses don't work anymore. The meddling administration is gone and most all of the players as well.

The lack of discipline and smart football is on Frost and the staff. My opinion is that their system of not immediately correcting mistakes in practice is a big factor in large amounts of unforced errors his teams have. I also think that players are not being held accountable for makings errors, specifically snaps but really it is a team discipline problem. Watching the 90's teams lean on opponents until they broke makes it hard to watch this version of the Huskers. I have gotten to the point where I expect a penalty, a turnover, or broken play every series and I am correct more often than not. Scott needs to take a step back from trying to outsmart everyone and get his team to play clean football. That has to be step one.

I bought the strength and conditioning hook, line, and sinker when they came and was expecting to see chiseled athletes by this time. It's sad when Illinois looks far more athletic than we do. I think most people would agree that we have taken the explosiveness out of almost everyone on the team in the name of bulk. I think some fundamental changes need to made here especially given @ShortSideOption saying we have put far more time in the weight room this year than most every team. We should be able to see that difference but have yet to in any game we have played.

The third area that Scott has done a poor job of is roster management. This one is hard to say what is right and what is wrong and trying to make a transition will always be tough. I think he was a bit overconfident in being able to coach UCF and run Nebraska at the same time. I don't blame him for what he did and completely respect and agree with how he tried to do it. Given hindsight it did put him in a hole from start. It would be very hard to pull the trigger and just play the young guys especially when coming off and undefeated season knowing that you are going to look bad at times and lose some games that you could probably win using older players. The temptation is there that you can make it work but it really is hard on everyone, espcially given today's players mentality, to get buy in and kids wanting to make the switch. Also trying to get a different style of athlete without having a proven track record and established name is very challenging which means you have to take more risks. It is now obvious that too much risk was taken and I think the staff has learned that lesson. Once we are stable and can show a good product with results, we can get in on "better" recruits that are stable.

I think Scott is a smart coach and has the will to win that will drive him to figure this out. I don't believe Nebraska has any other options than to play this out long term. We have basically started over every year for I don't know how many years and need to suck it up and stop the death spiral. I believe the defense has performed better than expected and really has tended very well this year in particular. They have their moments but really think they are ahead of the offense and special teams at this point. I would not change any of the coaches and give players a consistent message from day one. This alone will help with mental aspect of the game and mistakes being made. I think that the effect of even small changes gets underestimated. The only place I would look at significant changes is in strength and conditioning.

Hopefully my post can bring some hope to a product that really looks to be hopeless at times. We have to learn to crawl before we learn to run. The team looks so much different when we don't beat ourselves. We are a +.500 team if we just do that. The rest will come once we gain confidence in what we are doing.

There's about 8 years of posts wrapped up into one, I'll see you all in 2028 :)
 
So I'm finally breaking the seal after not sure how many years. I've been lurking since the Pelini days finally paid awhile back and regularly visit the site but have yet to post. So hello everyone and here is what I have come up with:

I have followed the Huskers since the early 80's and have seen the good teams, the great teams, the average teams and the bad teams. I'm a numbers guy and always look there first for answers.

The Frost era has been the complete opposite of what my expectations were from W-L, offensive prowess, strength and conditioning, and recruiting. My guess is that is the majority of what people are thinking so what gives?

For me, the starting place of any team is don't beat yourself and don't be easy to beat. I think that Frost coming from the PAC 12 and AAC got comfortable with being able to live with and recover from errors. The B1G and the B1G-west in particular is filled with teams that prey on mistakes. Iowa, Wisconsin, and Northwestern will never out athlete you and depend on winning the small battles to win the game. Unfortunately Frost's teams play right into their hands.

In Frost's tenure, NU is 1-12 when we have lost the turn over battle. They are 7-2 when they win the turnover battle and 2-5 when turn overs are even. This is football 101 and hard to believe that a TO player would have numbers like this. Again, I think that in the PAC and AAC this isn't as big of a deal because the other teams will likely give you presents right back whereas B1G wait for these opportunities and then hammer you.

The second number that is striking is the third down battle. Frost teams are PATHETIC on 3rd down %. NU has only won the third down conversion battle in 8 of his 27 games (29.6%). This year is particularly bad as NU is converting 32% of their third downs while our opponents are converting at a 49.4% rate. There are a lot of things that go into conversion rate but I feel the biggest one is unforced errors. While watching Frost's teams I have found myself expecting at least one negative play on every drive. This could be a penalty, bad snap, fumble. I would love to know the percentage of clean dives we have and then what our scoring rate is on those drives. I was surprised to see that NU is about even in the penalty battle. I would have guessed us to be much worse than our opponents. This year we are 0-5 in the penalty battle meaning we have had more penalties than our opponent in every game. Over Frost's tenure they are 12-15-2 in the penalty battle. The acceptance of bad snaps is mind boggling as they are worse than a penalty. Not only do you lose yards but the down as well. Any bad snap means that the offense only gets two downs to go 13+ yards.

The third problem I see is Frost's lack of game management experience. He has been a head coach for two years in the AAC and not played in a lot of closely contested games where small decisions can be the difference between winning and losing. He is 4-11 in one possession games. If he just flipped that number and went 11-4 in those games, his record goes from 10-19 to 17-12 and likely has two bowl games under his belt to boot.

What this leads me to is that there is hope that this can get quite a bit better with some simple fixes. We all know the problems that the program had when Frost came in. As @ShortSideOption continues to point out, those excuses don't work anymore. The meddling administration is gone and most all of the players as well.

The lack of discipline and smart football is on Frost and the staff. My opinion is that their system of not immediately correcting mistakes in practice is a big factor in large amounts of unforced errors his teams have. I also think that players are not being held accountable for makings errors, specifically snaps but really it is a team discipline problem. Watching the 90's teams lean on opponents until they broke makes it hard to watch this version of the Huskers. I have gotten to the point where I expect a penalty, a turnover, or broken play every series and I am correct more often than not. Scott needs to take a step back from trying to outsmart everyone and get his team to play clean football. That has to be step one.

I bought the strength and conditioning hook, line, and sinker when they came and was expecting to see chiseled athletes by this time. It's sad when Illinois looks far more athletic than we do. I think most people would agree that we have taken the explosiveness out of almost everyone on the team in the name of bulk. I think some fundamental changes need to made here especially given @ShortSideOption saying we have put far more time in the weight room this year than most every team. We should be able to see that difference but have yet to in any game we have played.

The third area that Scott has done a poor job of is roster management. This one is hard to say what is right and what is wrong and trying to make a transition will always be tough. I think he was a bit overconfident in being able to coach UCF and run Nebraska at the same time. I don't blame him for what he did and completely respect and agree with how he tried to do it. Given hindsight it did put him in a hole from start. It would be very hard to pull the trigger and just play the young guys especially when coming off and undefeated season knowing that you are going to look bad at times and lose some games that you could probably win using older players. The temptation is there that you can make it work but it really is hard on everyone, espcially given today's players mentality, to get buy in and kids wanting to make the switch. Also trying to get a different style of athlete without having a proven track record and established name is very challenging which means you have to take more risks. It is now obvious that too much risk was taken and I think the staff has learned that lesson. Once we are stable and can show a good product with results, we can get in on "better" recruits that are stable.

I think Scott is a smart coach and has the will to win that will drive him to figure this out. I don't believe Nebraska has any other options than to play this out long term. We have basically started over every year for I don't know how many years and need to suck it up and stop the death spiral. I believe the defense has performed better than expected and really has tended very well this year in particular. They have their moments but really think they are ahead of the offense and special teams at this point. I would not change any of the coaches and give players a consistent message from day one. This alone will help with mental aspect of the game and mistakes being made. I think that the effect of even small changes gets underestimated. The only place I would look at significant changes is in strength and conditioning.

Hopefully my post can bring some hope to a product that really looks to be hopeless at times. We have to learn to crawl before we learn to run. The team looks so much different when we don't beat ourselves. We are a +.500 team if we just do that. The rest will come once we gain confidence in what we are doing.

There's about 8 years of posts wrapped up into one, I'll see you all in 2028 :)

I appreciate your post, but I think you're shortchanging how good of a conference the AAC has been and still is. It's not a Power 5, but it's not that far behind. Lots of really good coaches and offensive ingenuity down there.
 



Realize we have a new OC, but 65 combined rushes by RBs through 5 games... that's 11 per game.... far too low IMO.

our top 3 rushers are both QB's (101 carries) & our smallest WR (29 carries). 2 passing TDs & 6 INTs + no real deep threat doesn't equal a passing game... all this combines for a frustrating lack of offensive production. Honestly feels like the desire to do so many different things has led to not doing any one thing very well. I liked a lot of what we saw with AM & LM on the field together, (certainly miss DM). Wandale is a beast & needs to get the ball a fair amount, we just lack an offensive identity in my opinion.
 
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Realize we have a new OC, but 65 combined rushes by RBs through 5 games... that's 11 per game.... far too low IMO.

our top 3 rushers are both QB's (101 carries) & our smallest WR (29 carries). 2 passing TDs & 6 INTs + no real deep threat doesn't equal a passing game... all this combines for a frustrating lack of offensive production. Honestly feels like the desire to do so many different things has led to not doing any one thing very well. I liked a lot of what we saw with AM & LM on the field together, (certainly miss DM). Wandale is a beast & needs to get the ball a fair amount, we just lack an offensive identity in my opinion.
You cant reach down into the well when it's dry.
O line shake up, are youth and depth are hurting us.
But even so, we almost beat iowa.
No silver lining, just a cold assessment.
 
Do we run any true gap scheme? .[..] Don't we have some power, power read, and counter concepts in our playbook or are we strictly trying to MAJOR in zone and sucking at it cuz we can't climb to backer or get any horizontal movement? [...] at least a little more split zone from that TE/Wing set to see if we can create some creases?

Are you familiar with the Dart & Wrap play? We run that a lot, and that's a gap scheme built for RPO. Usually we start with 4 WRs split wide, often unbalanced, sometimes all to one side, and then we motion the RB out of the backfield, usually towards the sideline, away from the WRs Bunch. If the RB has space, and no LB goes with him, we throw him the ball, which is the "Dart" part of the play. If a LB goes with him, and if that leaves only 5 defenders in the Box, we do the "Wrap" part of the play, which is a QB Draw after a fake-pump to the RB, and the QB will follow his OT who "wrap-blocks" around up the A-gap to pick up the first person wearing the wrong color. Regardless of front, everybody else is blocking the guy to their outside gap, except the Center has to take a NG whichever direction he is wanting to go. We run that a lot, especially in short-yardage situations. It's actually a very difficult play to defend, even when you know it's coming. Fwiw, we ran a simpler version of that with Tommie Frazier in the '96 Fiesta Bowl, and Florida never stopped it then either.

We do also run Power-Read, but that is a Zone scheme play with an extra blocker brought over from the back side. I can't remember when/if we last ran a true gap-scheme Power running play, which makes me think that we don't run that.

We don't run a ton of Counter plays, and I also wonder why that is. I'm a big fan of the new look Spread Counter Tray that Urban Meyer and Tom Hermann pulled out for the 1st CFP championship game against Ohio State, and that play is a direct descendant of Osborne's Counter Tray of yore. I want that back in the playbook. We need OL who can move well in space though, and that would be the young guys, so ... wait another year or two. The Counter plays that Frost ran a lot at UCF were simple counter plays off bread & butter things like the Inside Zone. I'm going from memory, so I might be wrong, but I think that they brought either a TE or somebody in motion from the backside to be the kickout block on the Edge Defender. The play starts just like Inside Zone, but immediately after the mesh, the RB jabs steps and cuts back behind the crossing blocker to go back towards the C-Gap on the same side where he lined up at the start of the play. The TE/H-Back kicks out the Edge Defender, and the RB follows his block at a shallow angle to slide inside and underneath and then pop outside away from the pursuing ILBs. Adrian Killins ran this for TDs a few times, and one of them was something like 80 yards. If the defense is loading up for Inside Zone, and the LBs are super aggressive in scraping over top to get to where (they think) the RB is headed, that simple play lets them run themselves out of the play while everybody else is hat-on-hat. The 2nd counter play that he ran a lot at UCF and has run a few times at Nebraska also starts like an Inside Zone with a QB Read on the backside Edge Defender. If the defense is sending the Edge Defender to crash down and take the RB (or attack the mesh point), this play attacks that by simulating that at the start, but then it turns into a traditional 2-man option play towards that Edge Defender's vacated area. If that guy is super aggressive, and the play is run right, the only guy left to take both QB and RB is the LB who was looping to take the QB after the Edge crashed and took the RB.

Going by the language you used, I assume that all of the above will make sense. If it doesn't, let me know, and I'll try to clarify some more.
 




Serious question. Are there any differences between Diaco's and Chinander's 3-4 scheme?
(first post)

Welcome to the board!

Yes, they are almost unrecognizably different except that both have 3 DL and 4 LBs in their base alignment. In the Diaco 3-4, about the only purpose that the 3 DL serve is to eat up as many OL blockers as possible so that the LBs can run free and make plays. The ILBs typically start at 5 yards depth, and ideally they are expected to be clean (unblocked} and free to run to the ball after they take their read step. The OLBs can be tight on the Line of Scrimmage, but often they'll play back at 2 and sometimes even 3-4 yards of depth, especially if WRs are split wide outside of them. Diaco rarely blitzes, so it's basically 3 War Daddy DL trying to take on at least 5 blockers (the OL) in order to get to the QB, and all 8 of the rest of the defense are dropping coverage. The CBs usually give a soft cushion to always keep the WRs in front of them. Likewise, the Safeties usually are deep. If it's a 2-deep with CBs covering WRs on both sides, it's supposed to look like an opened umbrella, so it's often called "umbrella coverage." The secondary will almost always be zone, and the goal is to always keep the ball and the WRs in front of you. This is perhaps the most conservative bend-but-don't-break defense that you're likely to see in Power 5 football. Although it's simpler and more conservative with greater depth, the concept isn't that different from Ohio State's defense, but it takes athletes like what Ohio State has to cover all of that ground and be able to come up quickly and thump people.

Chinander's is what is often called an "attacking 3-4," and he likes to run a Bear Front against running teams in traditional running situations. This means that the 3 DL will all line up inside of the OTs, so there are 3 DL to cover 4 gaps. If there's a TE, we'll roll up an OLB right across from him as the Edge Defender, but he'll also have to check the TE if he goes out for pass, and he'll usually have to cover the flat against pass. If there's no TE on the backside, we often roll up the other OLB onto the LoS, and he's basically a 4th DL and an Edge Rusher. He has Edge containment against the run or a QB rollout, but he is usually free to rush the QB if he reads Pass and there aren't any backs or WRs coming across the backfield in his direction. In Chinander's 3-4, if we line up in the Bear Front (3 DL inside of the OTs), it's almost impossible for an interior OL to climb to our ILB and get a clean block on him. If they send an OT to block him, it's a relatively easy read to know where to get to the ball, and it's a difficult block in space for an OT against a quicker ILB. Unless a back or receiver is coming across the formation, both ILBs will scrape in the direction of the ball, which means that even if the OT on the playside makes a good block on his ILB, the other should be coming to fill beside him. Chinander also runs a mix of pass coverages in the secondary. We do a lot of zone, but we ran man-to-man on the outside WRs against Penn State. Personally, I hope that we do that against Purdue because I think Cam Taylor-Britt can shut down a top-flight WR like David Bell if we unleash him and let him play. Even if we're man on outside WRs, we're still usually Zone underneath, but if the offense empties the backfield, we will sometimes go man all of the way across with just one deep Safety; this means that we can sometimes end up in a mismatch where a guy like Will Honas is guarding a faster RB. Chinander also blitzes ... A LOT. The 3 DL + 1 OLB is our base defense, so I don't even consider that a blitz, but we often bring an ILB, sometimes a Safety, occasionally a CB, and sometimes we bring a combination of 2 of those. We've even had blitzes that started out looking like a straight zone defense where 7 defenders were going to drop, but then we brought every defender that wasn't manned up on a receiver. That's high risk/high reward, and we can't afford to do that often, but we might see it against Purdue because their QB seems to get rattled when he gets heavy pressure.


There's a lot more to it than that, literally several books' worth, but that's probably enough to answer your question. Let me know if you want any clarification.
 
Are you familiar with the Dart & Wrap play? We run that a lot, and that's a gap scheme built for RPO. Usually we start with 4 WRs split wide, often unbalanced, sometimes all to one side, and then we motion the RB out of the backfield, usually towards the sideline, away from the WRs Bunch. If the RB has space, and no LB goes with him, we throw him the ball, which is the "Dart" part of the play. If a LB goes with him, and if that leaves only 5 defenders in the Box, we do the "Wrap" part of the play, which is a QB Draw after a fake-pump to the RB, and the QB will follow his OT who "wrap-blocks" around up the A-gap to pick up the first person wearing the wrong color. Regardless of front, everybody else is blocking the guy to their outside gap, except the Center has to take a NG whichever direction he is wanting to go. We run that a lot, especially in short-yardage situations. It's actually a very difficult play to defend, even when you know it's coming. Fwiw, we ran a simpler version of that with Tommie Frazier in the '96 Fiesta Bowl, and Florida never stopped it then either.

We do also run Power-Read, but that is a Zone scheme play with an extra blocker brought over from the back side. I can't remember when/if we last ran a true gap-scheme Power running play, which makes me think that we don't run that.

We don't run a ton of Counter plays, and I also wonder why that is. I'm a big fan of the new look Spread Counter Tray that Urban Meyer and Tom Hermann pulled out for the 1st CFP championship game against Ohio State, and that play is a direct descendant of Osborne's Counter Tray of yore. I want that back in the playbook. We need OL who can move well in space though, and that would be the young guys, so ... wait another year or two. The Counter plays that Frost ran a lot at UCF were simple counter plays off bread & butter things like the Inside Zone. I'm going from memory, so I might be wrong, but I think that they brought either a TE or somebody in motion from the backside to be the kickout block on the Edge Defender. The play starts just like Inside Zone, but immediately after the mesh, the RB jabs steps and cuts back behind the crossing blocker to go back towards the C-Gap on the same side where he lined up at the start of the play. The TE/H-Back kicks out the Edge Defender, and the RB follows his block at a shallow angle to slide inside and underneath and then pop outside away from the pursuing ILBs. Adrian Killins ran this for TDs a few times, and one of them was something like 80 yards. If the defense is loading up for Inside Zone, and the LBs are super aggressive in scraping over top to get to where (they think) the RB is headed, that simple play lets them run themselves out of the play while everybody else is hat-on-hat. The 2nd counter play that he ran a lot at UCF and has run a few times at Nebraska also starts like an Inside Zone with a QB Read on the backside Edge Defender. If the defense is sending the Edge Defender to crash down and take the RB (or attack the mesh point), this play attacks that by simulating that at the start, but then it turns into a traditional 2-man option play towards that Edge Defender's vacated area. If that guy is super aggressive, and the play is run right, the only guy left to take both QB and RB is the LB who was looping to take the QB after the Edge crashed and took the RB.

Going by the language you used, I assume that all of the above will make sense. If it doesn't, let me know, and I'll try to clarify some more.
That’s a lot of great information! But I think you are missing the point some are trying to make here. If you don’t use a two TE set and a full back you really
aren’t committed to the run game.
 



Are you familiar with the Dart & Wrap play? We run that a lot, and that's a gap scheme built for RPO. Usually we start with 4 WRs split wide, often unbalanced, sometimes all to one side, and then we motion the RB out of the backfield, usually towards the sideline, away from the WRs Bunch. If the RB has space, and no LB goes with him, we throw him the ball, which is the "Dart" part of the play. If a LB goes with him, and if that leaves only 5 defenders in the Box, we do the "Wrap" part of the play, which is a QB Draw after a fake-pump to the RB, and the QB will follow his OT who "wrap-blocks" around up the A-gap to pick up the first person wearing the wrong color. Regardless of front, everybody else is blocking the guy to their outside gap, except the Center has to take a NG whichever direction he is wanting to go. We run that a lot, especially in short-yardage situations. It's actually a very difficult play to defend, even when you know it's coming. Fwiw, we ran a simpler version of that with Tommie Frazier in the '96 Fiesta Bowl, and Florida never stopped it then either.

We do also run Power-Read, but that is a Zone scheme play with an extra blocker brought over from the back side. I can't remember when/if we last ran a true gap-scheme Power running play, which makes me think that we don't run that.

We don't run a ton of Counter plays, and I also wonder why that is. I'm a big fan of the new look Spread Counter Tray that Urban Meyer and Tom Hermann pulled out for the 1st CFP championship game against Ohio State, and that play is a direct descendant of Osborne's Counter Tray of yore. I want that back in the playbook. We need OL who can move well in space though, and that would be the young guys, so ... wait another year or two. The Counter plays that Frost ran a lot at UCF were simple counter plays off bread & butter things like the Inside Zone. I'm going from memory, so I might be wrong, but I think that they brought either a TE or somebody in motion from the backside to be the kickout block on the Edge Defender. The play starts just like Inside Zone, but immediately after the mesh, the RB jabs steps and cuts back behind the crossing blocker to go back towards the C-Gap on the same side where he lined up at the start of the play. The TE/H-Back kicks out the Edge Defender, and the RB follows his block at a shallow angle to slide inside and underneath and then pop outside away from the pursuing ILBs. Adrian Killins ran this for TDs a few times, and one of them was something like 80 yards. If the defense is loading up for Inside Zone, and the LBs are super aggressive in scraping over top to get to where (they think) the RB is headed, that simple play lets them run themselves out of the play while everybody else is hat-on-hat. The 2nd counter play that he ran a lot at UCF and has run a few times at Nebraska also starts like an Inside Zone with a QB Read on the backside Edge Defender. If the defense is sending the Edge Defender to crash down and take the RB (or attack the mesh point), this play attacks that by simulating that at the start, but then it turns into a traditional 2-man option play towards that Edge Defender's vacated area. If that guy is super aggressive, and the play is run right, the only guy left to take both QB and RB is the LB who was looping to take the QB after the Edge crashed and took the RB.

Going by the language you used, I assume that all of the above will make sense. If it doesn't, let me know, and I'll try to clarify some more.
It makes sense but we just must use or be used to different terminology. Dart, in my experience means tackle wrap towards the zone of the OL. So its basically still a zone play with a tag and yes we run, IMO no true gap where the OL double or block away from point of attack with pullers creating extra gaps thus no actual power read but a zone sweep read
 


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