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Wandale....

As a Cleveland Browns fans, Bill Callahan is a great offensive mind. I have always said that he was a DCoordinator away from being successful here.

He’s a great offensive line coach, but he’s proven over and over that he’s not capable of anything more. The offensive explosion at K-State in 2007 was an outlier, his offenses at Nebraska were generally plodding and incompetent.
 

Callahan can coach OL but this was always a damning report on that man...

 
A Kentucky website has this picture ... lol

1610379517052.png


 
I need you to find out who made that statement. It's a good one. But it's also what i've been trying to relay.

Riley took over for a 9 win coach, and had current players he was going to need and former Pelini guys that just graduated openly tweeting against the hire. Josh Mitchell had one of the more famous ones of "this is who you got rid of our guy for? LOL." It was something like that. I don't think they were wrong, probably shouldn't have gone public with it, but they were protecting Bo. It's really hard to get rid of a 9 win coach every year and bring in a perennial .500 coach and sell the "well now he's going to be better because he is at Nebraska." That's really what we were all hoping when it went down. But as I said at the time, you don't fire Pelini if your coach is going to be Riley.

Conversely, Frost took over for Riley who had two losing seasons. Kids want to win. They saw a winner with what was coming to them from Orlando.

With that said, I'm pretty sure you can say that Riley took over more talent than Frost. But that's where the gray area is. Depending on which side of the fence you are on leads you to what was worse for the coach to overcome? Was Riley overcoming guys not wanting him as the coach compared to Bo tougher to overcome than Frost coming here and having worse talent to play with?

There's no winning, I just think Riley had a more difficult situation and coached his first 3 years here better than Frost. After year 1, Riley lost 4 draft picks to the NFL and then won 9 games the following year. I don't believe anyone is saying Frost shouldn't have been hired, and he needs to be our coach for 2021. I'm just hoping we've figured out what the issue is and can correct it. I'm tired of losing.
Great post ***
This.

It was the common impression that Riley had left the program in worse shape than he had inherited it (Talent down, moral down with losing again two out of three years).

But how in the name of all that is DONU did Scott manage to have three straight losing seasons!!

The only answer that I can come up with that fits the evidence is that he and his staff are far less experienced than everyone knew.

The hype of a 13-0 season covered up the warts of this so that it was only revealed when we:
1. Could not close out games with half time leads
2. Couldn't stop Purdue with a 3rd team QB late in 4th quarter.
3. Couldn't figure out that special teams is an important part of football, that offense isn't the only game in town.
4. That Scott's offense is critically QB dependent, so that a reliable, efficient, healthy QB at least by year two of his tenure was an absolute necessity if he was to have a successful offense.

That he and his staff could not figure these basic issues out to win football games where they had equal talent, meant that teams were able to beat DONU when they had lesser talent! Unacceptable!

Finally, to continue to blame losing on "culture", "talent", etc is failing to recognize the need to improve himself and his staff, which means 2021 will be the same movie I saw the last there years and I didnt like it :(.
 



I sometimes wonder if Eichorst hadn't forced a change at defensive coordinator heading into the 2017 if things would have been different (and again, I put a lot of blame on Riley for bending over to Eichorst on that).

We went into 2017 coming off a 9-win season. Even 2015 wasn't that bad -- when you take into account the recent past few seasons (hindsight) -- there was never a season when I felt more snake bit -- game one -- Hail Mary loss to BYU -- and the pitchforks were already waiting. Two games later, lose to Miami in OT. next 3 losses were by 1-2 points, including a 2pt loss to Wisconsin -- and then we righted the ship a bit toward the end, including the big win over #6 Michigan State that had everyone in the stadium dancing. Onto 2016 -- the "expected" 9 wins -- but not a good finish (still, we'd take that nowadays!) ... and 2017 ... lost AT Oregon in game two by 7 -- not what I'd call embarrassing ... but that was followed up with the 4pt loss to what was an 8-win Northern Illinois team -- and it was game over, for all intents and purposes. Eichorst was fired, Moos was hired -- and the sharks were circling. Imagine if we'd fired Moos 3 games into last season -- well, that's pretty commonly the death knell for a head coach -- even more so when half the fan base (and growing each week) wants a coach gone before he even got here.

Again, I'm not defending Riley as a great coach. And like everyone, I'd take Frost over Riley (not knowing either's abilities to coach Nebraska beforehand) in a heartbeat. But man, he walked into shark infested waters in Lincoln. And if our fan base had treated Frost as they did Riley, he might not have even made it past season two. I just get really frustrated with fans who not only hated Riley from the get go and looked at each loss as justification for a mistake in hiring him -- yet even after year three of Frost, many of those same fans serving as Riley vultures are now Frost apologists.
Well said HWM. I am all for another year of SF and desperately hope he figures this thing out. I do get tired of hearing how much better SF is than Riley based on zero tangible evidence except a season at Central Florida. In my opinion and opinion only we have some serious concerns and they are not just with talent. The talk of culture/chemistry whatever you want to call it, seriously quieted this year but when you have back to back seasons and you potentially lose your best weapon I don't think you can say those issues have gone away. When you have 30 something transfers I begin to wonder if the issue isn't so much those transferring as leadership. If I lose a couple of very talented employees it may be for better compensation, perks, etc but at some point if the problem persists the home office is going to look at me. For some, especially those that fit the bolded if you point out those issues your football knowledge and allegiance is immediately questioned. We seem to think alike on alot of the goings on right now and I suspect you as well as I know that you remove Nebraska legend from the coaching resume and those apologists become the ones with the pitch forks. I'm ok with it though as it's been this way since Solich and there is no change in fans setting up camp with their guy.
 
@TnHusker87

Agree...

On one hand you want to demand excellence and hold people accountable...

especially because of the huge amount of money these people make.

on the other hand, given the realities that have emerged in college football in the last 20 years.

What we consider as “excellence“ is subject to a lot of discussion.

When Pellini was fired.....he had the third highest win percentage of any active FBS coach at that time. IIRC he was only behind Saban and Stoops.

Was he irascible? Yes. Dd he rub some people the wrong? Yes.... and those factors have to be taken into consideration in today’s social media world of instant condemnation and viral video clips.....and TV announcers using EVERY opportunity to bring it to everyone’s attention

But he won 9 or 10 games a year for 8 years straight....and played for a conference championship 3 of those years. And his players were hugely loyal to him.

And we fired him!

We have tried the “quick fix route“ with zero patience twice and it has led us to this situation.

And we can always go back to that route and hire whoever is the latest hot property after paying millions and millions in buyout.

But I argue that it’s time to try something different...even with the pain!

Is four years enough time to decide on a coach and program? Given today’s world and the ease of the new transfer portal?

Is it five years?

I just don’t know the answer but it seems to me all we’re doing is becoming another Tennessee.

Great potential...zero patience.

Having said all that, it would be a damn sight easier to ”bear the pain” if we could at least have a winning season next year. Hell, I’ll settle for six and six and then a win at a bowl game.

I think the old phrase “you’ve made your bed, now you have to lay in it” is an appropriate summary of the Nebraska football situation. This program has been gutted with poor decisions since our NC runs. Now we are in a situation where a total rebuild is necessary. For whatever reason, this is taking longer than people would like. And what makes it worse is the people we see as instrumental to the rebuild seem to drop from the program like flies.

One key question for me is why this offense is still so unproductive after year 3 with little light showing at the end of the tunnel. There is no part of our offense that we can look at as a strength. We liked to tell ourselves we were deep at QB, but I think that assertion is questionable. Hopefully, we will be learning some new names as players emerge as leaders and play makers in 2021 and beyond.

But there is some logic to having more patience with a Frost than a Riley. If Riley had been moderately successful, it would have been just in time to retire. With Frost, if he turns this program around, there is a hope that he will be around for a long time. But I do understand why people are looking at the product on the field and wondering if this staff is capable of success.
 
Well said HWM. I am all for another year of SF and desperately hope he figures this thing out. I do get tired of hearing how much better SF is than Riley based on zero tangible evidence except a season at Central Florida. In my opinion and opinion only we have some serious concerns and they are not just with talent. The talk of culture/chemistry whatever you want to call it, seriously quieted this year but when you have back to back seasons and you potentially lose your best weapon I don't think you can say those issues have gone away. When you have 30 something transfers I begin to wonder if the issue isn't so much those transferring as leadership. If I lose a couple of very talented employees it may be for better compensation, perks, etc but at some point if the problem persists the home office is going to look at me. For some, especially those that fit the bolded if you point out those issues your football knowledge and allegiance is immediately questioned. We seem to think alike on alot of the goings on right now and I suspect you as well as I know that you remove Nebraska legend from the coaching resume and those apologists become the ones with the pitch forks. I'm ok with it though as it's been this way since Solich and there is no change in fans setting up camp with their guy.

If you can link any coach to Osborne, he's automatically going to get a lot more "patience" from the fan base than an "outsider" coach would. The linked coach and the outsider coach could have the exact same game-by-game results -- even in losing -- and the linked coach will get far more free passes.

Even Bo had a link, having served as Solich's defensive coordinator for a season (and performed quite well). Heck, I'll confess -- I actually was more excited about the Bo hire than any hire post-Osborne.

Reality is, Nebraska fans still very much live in the 90s. And if you can give them something to remind them of the glory days -- even a losing coach -- that's like a drug to a lot of Husker fans -- a hallucinogen. :nod: :Lol:

Truth is, the single greatest hire in the history of Nebraska football was an outsider. Bob Devaney.
 
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I think the old phrase “you’ve made your bed, now you have to lay in it” is an appropriate summary of the Nebraska football situation. This program has been gutted with poor decisions since our NC runs. Now we are in a situation where a total rebuild is necessary. For whatever reason, this is taking longer than people would like. And what makes it worse is the people we see as instrumental to the rebuild seem to drop from the program like flies.

One key question for me is why this offense is still so unproductive after year 3 with little light showing at the end of the tunnel. There is no part of our offense that we can look at as a strength. We liked to tell ourselves we were deep at QB, but I think that assertion is questionable. Hopefully, we will be learning some new names as players emerge as leaders and play makers in 2021 and beyond.


But there is some logic to having more patience with a Frost than a Riley. If Riley had been moderately successful, it would have been just in time to retire. With Frost, if he turns this program around, there is a hope that he will be around for a long time. But I do understand why people are looking at the product on the field and wondering if this staff is capable of success.
Great question. I'm not sure HCSF has the answer. Or will readily admit it. IMO, we are just so dang reliant on the quarterback. We have kinda/sorta seen that this past season. You have to be able to:
1. Stretch the field east/west - deliver swing passes on time and on target
2. Stretch the field North South - deliver passes accurately from the line of scrimmage to 10 yds and then be a next level passer with some verticality.
3. Run the zone read, QB Power - count defenders in the box and make the correct decision pulling or keeping the ball.
AM + LM were pretty good running and swinging and passes less than 10 yds.. Without stretching the ball N/S with accuracy it put more pressure on the entire offense. It had a negative effect on power runs without the QB.
You know your offense is broken when 3 of the top 4 rushers are not Running backs. With two being quarterbacks I think that shows how dependent we are on that position to be successful.
I think it's like basketball too. If you have one or two studs you still need to spread the court out and move the ball. Kobe and MJ weren't great until they had the triangle offense because that system created space and movement.
We, last season, played too many guys the defense didn't have to account for which led to no space, 7/8 in the box and we really couldn't get things going until Rutgers.
 




If you can link any coach to Osborne, he's automatically going to get a lot more "patience" from the fan base than an "outsider" coach would. The linked coach and the outsider coach could have the exact same game-by-game results -- even in losing -- and the linked coach will get far more free passes.

Even Bo had a link, having served as Solich's defensive coordinator for a season (and performed quite well). Heck, I'll confess -- I actually was more excited about the Bo hire than any hire post-Osborne.

Reality is, Nebraska fans still very much live in the 90s. And if you can give them something to remind them of the glory days -- even a losing coach -- that's like a drug to a lot of Husker fans -- a hallucinogen. :nod: :Lol:

Truth is, the single greatest hire in the history of Nebraska football was an outsider. Bob Devaney.

True to a certain extent. One could argue (I would) to name Oz OC was just about as important. He was from, ahem, Nebraska. Just sayin...
 
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I think we are all forgetting about another angle. How sophisticated these high talent players have become over the years.

Wan Dale may be simply gaming the system here to get promises about certain things. Number of touches...NOT to be a runner on short yardage situations. Limited time as a tail back....etc. etc.

He has some leverage here and just may be exercising it a bit. Putting him in the backfield to try to pound out yardage may have scared him a bit. While he was getting “touches”...... he was also taking a real pounding.

Since he has not officially made any statements since this was announced as a possibility, I think there is some intense negotiations going on right now between him, his parents (Who are definitely being advised by an agent), Frost and Lubeck.

it seems crazy for this to take place in college football but I absolutely think this is happening almost everywhere with these highly skilled players.
 
I think the old phrase “you’ve made your bed, now you have to lay in it” is an appropriate summary of the Nebraska football situation. This program has been gutted with poor decisions since our NC runs. Now we are in a situation where a total rebuild is necessary. For whatever reason, this is taking longer than people would like. And what makes it worse is the people we see as instrumental to the rebuild seem to drop from the program like flies.

One key question for me is why this offense is still so unproductive after year 3 with little light showing at the end of the tunnel. There is no part of our offense that we can look at as a strength. We liked to tell ourselves we were deep at QB, but I think that assertion is questionable. Hopefully, we will be learning some new names as players emerge as leaders and play makers in 2021 and beyond.

But there is some logic to having more patience with a Frost than a Riley. If Riley had been moderately successful, it would have been just in time to retire. With Frost, if he turns this program around, there is a hope that he will be around for a long time. But I do understand why people are looking at the product on the field and wondering if this staff is capable of success.
You simply don’t fire coaches who have just finished 9-3 seasons. I believe Frost will get it done at Nebraska but the expectations are so very high the complaining will continue until he has a winning season. As for the attrition ,it’s a much different culture today and he’s going to have to do a better job of vetting his recruits. As Husker fans ( especially us old guys) we’ve been spoiled with the incredible success over a 30 year stretch. I believe Frost will get this program turned around but it’s not going to be nearly as easy as I thought. Go Big Red!
 



we’ve been spoiled with the incredible success over a 30 year stretch.
Actually...when you think about it...we were spoiled for over half a Century...

more like 50 straight years of winning seasons and bowls

remarkable...

but we came to take it for granted then got caught up in a coaching carousel.

Had Frank Solich stayed head coach...we’d of have had the same 21 years that Ferentz has now...with consistency.

water under the bridge....

But a lesson we should not forget
 

I recall Bo being fired and I thought it was exactly the thing to do. He was a total embarrassment to an institution of higher learning. I don't care what his record was.

Looking just at football, however, his teams won a lot of games. I have no idea why since he has not had a sterling career since then. I do not think he simply did it with other's recruits, though.

I can understand why they chose Riley - he was a good guy. And he won 6, 9,and 4 games in his three years. Don't we wish Frost had done as well, or even nearly as well? But reading what has been said about him on the board, we generally have concluded that Riley was a terrible coach for us.

Yet we pussy foot around Frost and his record (4, 5, and 3(all be it 3 out of only 8 games). Oh give him some more time! It's hard to point to evidence leading you to believe that the record will improve much, if at all, during the next few years.

But Moos will keep him around. Since he is retiring soon, I suspect that Moos wants to not be bothered with a search at this university for a new football coach in his last couple of years.

I don't feel optimistic about our short term prospects.

Can you imagine - we will feel pretty good if we get to a .500 record next year! that will make many of us feel good.
 

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