Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Tim Beck's Salary

[BigMacHusker]

I agree that timing and turnover margin are important, but the argument has been that the team turns the ball over too often due to its head coach. I disagree with that analysis.

That's because there is never any actual analysis involved, the statement comes from thin air with zero analysis. Nick Saban is as if not more hot headed than Bo, yet Alabama was #8 in giveaways this year. There goes that "Bo just needs to calm down" nonsense.

How about some actual analysis. 2009 we were tied at 35 in the country in giveaways and 38 2010. Alabama is averaging 1 TO/game this year while we were averaging 1.5 those two years (this year FSU is at 1.3 and AU at 1.4 per game). What gets lost in the talk about running the ball more when we had fumble issues under TO is that WRs become ball carriers after the catch. We had some issues with fumbles at that position for awhile, those have been eliminated. Who gets credit for that? Ameer has reduced his fumbles this year while getting more carries, who gets credit for that? He is tied for 34 in fumbles but at 5 in fumbles lost, I don't know that we have ever recovered one of his fumbles.

If we really want to look at where the biggest problem lies, look at the QB position. One of TMs biggest weaknesses throughout his career has been TOs. He was able to neutralize a lot of that when healthy with freakish athletic ability. When he went down we went to a RFr and walk on SR QB, the TO issue at that position was not solved with that move. Consistent QB play alone will get us to where we need to be in the TO department.

Punt return has been an issue lately as well. I personally believe we overreacted to one issue and created another, and probably bigger issue, with our game plan (or lack thereof) in that area. That is the easiest area to fix, we'll see if it happens.

 

[BigMacHusker]

The sleeve he wore on his elbow. Once he removed that in Green Bay his fumbling problems were reduced significantly. Oh, and TO, since you guys keep reaching to show how superior Bo is to him.

Uh oh, back to making stuff up. Must have touched a nerve.

 

[Pops]

Difference between TO and BO


Well maybe TO saw the turnovers as a problem and the genius in him made a play out of it

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pIRgXCB_sQE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Pops]

and that play it was recorded as a fumble

 

[Big "D"zasker]

That's because there is never any actual analysis involved, the statement comes from thin air with zero analysis. Nick Saban is as if not more hot headed than Bo, yet Alabama was #8 in giveaways this year. There goes that "Bo just needs to calm down" nonsense.

How about some actual analysis. 2009 we were tied at 35 in the country in giveaways and 38 2010. Alabama is averaging 1 TO/game this year while we were averaging 1.5 those two years (this year FSU is at 1.3 and AU at 1.4 per game). What gets lost in the talk about running the ball more when we had fumble issues under TO is that WRs become ball carriers after the catch. We had some issues with fumbles at that position for awhile, those have been eliminated. Who gets credit for that? Ameer has reduced his fumbles this year while getting more carries, who gets credit for that? He is tied for 34 in fumbles but at 5 in fumbles lost, I don't know that we have ever recovered one of his fumbles.

If we really want to look at where the biggest problem lies, look at the QB position. One of TMs biggest weaknesses throughout his career has been TOs. He was able to neutralize a lot of that when healthy with freakish athletic ability. When he went down we went to a RFr and walk on SR QB, the TO issue at that position was not solved with that move. Consistent QB play alone will get us to where we need to be in the TO department.

Punt return has been an issue lately as well. I personally believe we overreacted to one issue and created another, and probably bigger issue, with our game plan (or lack thereof) in that area. That is the easiest area to fix, we'll see if it happens.

What was their overall turnover margin? How many weeks did they spend at the top of the polls taking everyone's best shot while Bo's team languished outside of the poll struggling against the Northwestern's of the world? The lengths y'all will go to prop up Bo is truly scary. Yep, the consensus around the country is that Bo is definitely the next TO or Saban; just be patient and it's bound to happen.

 

[BigMacHusker]

What was their overall turnover margin? How many weeks did they spend at the top of the polls taking everyone's best shot while Bo's team languished outside of the poll struggling against the Northwestern's of the world? The lengths y'all will go to prop up Bo is truly scary. Yep, the consensus around the country is that Bo is definitely the next TO or Saban; just be patient and it's bound to happen.

Wow, that really went way over your head.

 

[chops52]

Slice it anyway you want, a "great" OC (which is what Beck's salary would indicate he is) should know what his players can and cannot do, should stick with what's working (usually the run game), shouldn't consistently call plays that aren't working simply because "the numbers call for them", and shouldn't be so quick to give up the run a certain points in the game.

Agree Totally. The numbers thing drives me nuts because it never seems like those plays work when he is "attacking the numbers" as he says. It is just another way I think he out smarts himself and gets in his own way calling plays. If there is not better consistency when calling plays next year then I think it will be a long year on offense. On defense it may be fun to watch.

 

[TROTTT]

Number do not lie, he is overpaid.

 

[Pops]

Number do not lie, he is overpaid.

one number doesn't lie. It's when you start putting them all together is when we find fault

 

[Funky]

I wonder if Tim is paid more because he has more responsibility and impact than other OCs. It's no secret that Bo has a defensive mind. I wonder what percentage of Bo's time is spent on offense vs defense.

 

[Bo Pelinis Gum]

That's because there is never any actual analysis involved, the statement comes from thin air with zero analysis. Nick Saban is as if not more hot headed than Bo, yet Alabama was #8 in giveaways this year. There goes that "Bo just needs to calm down" nonsense.

How about some actual analysis. 2009 we were tied at 35 in the country in giveaways and 38 2010. Alabama is averaging 1 TO/game this year while we were averaging 1.5 those two years (this year FSU is at 1.3 and AU at 1.4 per game). What gets lost in the talk about running the ball more when we had fumble issues under TO is that WRs become ball carriers after the catch. We had some issues with fumbles at that position for awhile, those have been eliminated. Who gets credit for that? Ameer has reduced his fumbles this year while getting more carries, who gets credit for that? He is tied for 34 in fumbles but at 5 in fumbles lost, I don't know that we have ever recovered one of his fumbles.

If we really want to look at where the biggest problem lies, look at the QB position. One of TMs biggest weaknesses throughout his career has been TOs. He was able to neutralize a lot of that when healthy with freakish athletic ability. When he went down we went to a RFr and walk on SR QB, the TO issue at that position was not solved with that move. Consistent QB play alone will get us to where we need to be in the TO department.

Punt return has been an issue lately as well. I personally believe we overreacted to one issue and created another, and probably bigger issue, with our game plan (or lack thereof) in that area. That is the easiest area to fix, we'll see if it happens.

For the most part I agree. Using Bama as the example doesnt really prove the point in the turnover world. Hot headed coaches sure. But Bama was +.5 for the year, and they were 5th in turnovers lost at 12 for the year. (#1 gave up 8). We were #111 giving up 28.

 

[BigMacHusker]

For the most part I agree. Using Bama as the example doesnt really prove the point in the turnover world. Hot headed coaches sure. But Bama was +.5 for the year, and they were 5th in turnovers lost at 12 for the year. (#1 gave up 8). We were #111 giving up 28.

I only brought up Saban/Bama to counter the whole idea that Bo's persona is creating TOs. Saban is just has hot headed as Bo and his teams don't give the ball away, and Bo has fielded teams that gave the ball away at a rate in line with the two teams about to play for a title.

I would expect the upgrade in talent on the defensive side of the ball as well as going back to a more attacking style to get us back to taking the ball away more, which will obviously help with the TO margin stat.

 

[Big "D"zasker]

I only brought up Saban/Bama to counter the whole idea that Bo's persona is creating TOs. Saban is just has hot headed as Bo and his teams don't give the ball away, and Bo has fielded teams that gave the ball away at a rate in line with the two teams about to play for a title.

I would expect the upgrade in talent on the defensive side of the ball as well as going back to a more attacking style to get us back to taking the ball away more, which will obviously help with the TO margin stat.

There's one small difference. When Saban is hotheaded it's just anger because of blown assignments and officiating. Bo's hotheadedness is a mixture of anger about those things AND feeling the pressure associated with not being fully prepared and getting out-coached. Doubt if anyone will accuse Saban of not being prepared and rarely does he get out-coached.

 

[BigMacHusker]

There's one small difference. When Saban is hotheaded it's just anger because of blown assignments and officiating. Bo's hotheadedness is a mixture of anger about those things AND feeling the pressure associated with not being fully prepared and getting out-coached. Doubt if anyone will accuse Saban of not being prepared and rarely does he get out-coached.

[video=youtube_share;Qtqp-RUw87M]http://youtu.be/Qtqp-RUw87M[/video]

Another small difference is I'm not making stuff up in order to hold onto an unfounded, unprovable belief that has been blown out of the water by actual statistics.

 

[cm husker]

Every individual turnover is the fault of the player. When it is epidemic over the course of several seasons...it is the fault of coaching. That much should be obvious.

I think Bils summed it up in a nice little package:

Every individual turnover is the fault of the player. When it is epidemic over the course of several seasons...it is the fault of coaching. That much should be obvious

Here are the stats for turnovers, with a bit more context. Which coaches, specifically, are to blame? Ron Brown and Beck? Because there two players have had a high turnover rate.

OR is it possible that due to somethings like youth or just a propensity to turn the ball over, NU has had a couple of specific players who have had trouble hanging onto the pill, regardless of coaching?

Even this year, but for a couple of blow up games by a handful of freshman and the third string QB, NU would be in the top 50 or so in total turnovers.

I'd submit that years 2009-2011 weren't actually that bad, overall. Great? No. But horrible? Not that either.

Year	NU’s Rank	Top 50	Top 20
2013	111[SUP]th[/SUP] (28)	18	15
2012	118[SUP]th[/SUP] (35)	20	16
2011	32[SUP]nd[/SUP] (19)	21	18
2010	71[SUP]st[/SUP] (24)	21	17
2009	57th (23)	21	16
2008	93[SUP]rd[/SUP] (28)	21	17

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Year	NU’s Rank	Top 50	Top 20	Interceptions by Player
2013	64[SUP]th[/SUP] (12)	10	7	Armstrong – 7 Kellogg – 3 Martinez – 2
2012	71[SUP]st[/SUP] (13)	10	7	Martinez – 12 Kellogg – 1
2011	19[SUP]th[/SUP] (8)	10	8	Martinez – 8
2010	13[SUP]th[/SUP] (8)	12	8	Martinez – 7 Green – 1
2009	51[SUP]st[/SUP] (12)	11	8	Lee – 10 Green – 2
2008	42[SUP]nd[/SUP] (11)	11	8	Ganz – 11

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Year	NU’s Rank	Top 50	Top 20	Fumbles Lost by Player
2013	121[SUP]st[/SUP] (16)	8	6	Abdullah – 5 (1 off of highest among RB) Newby – 2 Westerkamp – 2
2012	120[SUP]th[/SUP] (22)	9	7	Martinez – 8 (highest in NCAA) Abdullah – 6 (highest among RB)
2011	61[SUP]st[/SUP] (11)	9	8	Martinez – <3 (TM had 13 fumbles which led NCAA) Abdullah – 4 (AA had 7 fumbles was 1 less than the NCAA lead among RB)
2010	117[SUP]th[/SUP] (16)	9	7	Martinez – 5 (TM had 16 fumbles which led NCAA) Helu - 3
2009	60[SUP]th[/SUP] (11)	10	7	Helu – 3
2008	110[SUP]th[/SUP] (17)	10	7	Castille - 3

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