Practice changes

[Boji Husker]

For those curious about my Penn State references:

In past years, alarms went off early and workouts took place before any class started inside any lecture hall at University Park. Now, however, the team gathers in the afternoon for their workouts.

Why?

“We moved those to the afternoon, which is something I’ve never done before,” head coach James Franklin said last week.

“But with our conversations with sport science, we spend all our time talking to our players about the importance of nutrition, hydration and sleep, but then as coaches we get them up at 5:00 in the morning -- it just didn’t make a whole lot of sense.”

Why has Penn State football changed its offseason workout routine?

James Franklin explains.

www.pennlive.com

Long story short, you can find science and stats to support anything you are doing. Workouts in the morning are good. Workouts in the morning are bad. You gotta do what your team responds best to.

So far, looking at the record and number of lifting injuries, this team is not responding well.

 

[ShortSideOption]

So far, looking at the record and number of lifting injuries, this team is not responding well.

True. But they did at UCF. I have a hard time believing practice time is the reasoning for the injuries or 9-15 record. I think other things in the weight room have much more of an effect on that.

I do know there's some players that hate the morning stuff we do, and others that love it. There's basically science out there that says peak testosterone is 10AM, fine motor control peaks at 2PM, and max strength is at 4pm. So if I want to lift the most weight possible and smash, I should do it in the afternoon. You can talk yourself into training anytime you want.

 

[NU_Alum]

True. But they did at UCF. I have a hard time believing practice time is the reasoning for the injuries or 9-15 record. I think other things in the weight room have much more of an effect on that.

I do know there's some players that hate the morning stuff we do, and others that love it. There's basically science out there that says peak testosterone is 10AM, fine motor control peaks at 2PM, and max strength is at 4pm. So if I want to lift the most weight possible and smash, I should do it in the afternoon. You can talk yourself into training anytime you want.

I see it with my kids all the time. Some (like me) love the mornings. I could be at a workout or practice at 5 am no problem, even in college.

I know plenty of kids that just don't function well until at least 10 a.m. regardless of how much sleep they get. People are wired differently and I don't think you can change that.

I'd like to see SF reconsider his morning practices (I know it was a giant pain to go to mornings administratively). I think more people benefit...or really fewer people are "harmed" by going to afternoons. Morning people can do the afternoon just fine. Non morning people can't do mornings very well.

 

[ShortSideOption]

I'd like to see SF reconsider his morning practices (I know it was a giant pain to go to mornings administratively). I think more people benefit...or really fewer people are "harmed" by going to afternoons. Morning people can do the afternoon just fine. Non morning people can't do mornings very well.

Lots of stuff in this paragraph. Frost and Moos moved a lot of mountains with administration and professors to get classes changed for football players. To go back on that in only a couple years would be pretty tough.

To your point about who can handle what... spot on. Morning people don't have a problem with afternoons. Everyone is up in the morning. With that said, non morning people can't handle morning workouts or practices very well.

 

[NU_Alum]

Lots of stuff in this paragraph. Frost and Moos moved a lot of mountains with administration and professors to get classes changed for football players. To go back on that in only a couple years would be pretty tough.

To your point about who can handle what... spot on. Morning people don't have a problem with afternoons. Everyone is up in the morning. With that said, non morning people can't handle morning workouts or practices very well.

I could tell it was a giant paid for Moos as he commented on it several times and talked about "getting it done". His word choice made it obvious that it was a serious task to accomplish.

But he's paid the big bucks to undue mistakes regardless of the labor/feelings involved; same as SF.

I hope they reevaluate everything including the mornings.

 

[Hooked on Huskers]

And ALL practice, outdoor field. I prefer Tom Osborne field. I don't like temperature control, no sky and precip, crappy background music (mostly rap ) and windless environment in indoor field.

 

[Huskerhunter]

Afternoon practices might lead to more/better shaving.

 

[Husker Country Doc]

With morning practices, and the install for an opponent done by Noon on Wednesday, it doesn't give injured players much chance to get out and practice before the next game.

If Frost wants to do AM practices, I'd push everything back a day, and do the typical Friday walk-through on Sat am.

That way, players have an additional day to recover, and they can maybe catch that last install day.

 

[The_CornTorch]

The primary reason for morning practices is that is when testosterone is at its peak. They then "exponentially accelerate" that testosterone in their circuit workout starting with sets of back squats. That's the main reason.

The secondary reasons are kids having to go to bed earlier so getting in less trouble, football getting out of the way and first thing the kids are focused on so they can have the rest of the day for class, etc.

To your point, Penn State did morning practices because of the testosterone science but then changed back to afternoon practices because kids weren't getting enough sleep and that was paramount to them compared to higher testosterone on a tired athlete.

I think @NU_Alum summed it up well – nobody is "harmed" by afternoon practices. And if the guys are working out and practicing on deficient sleep – are they actually experiencing the testosterone training benefits you're highlighting? If you're not sleeping enough, that's exactly the sort of body function that is diminished.

But yes – by all accounts moving to a morning schedule took a big lift on the part of the athletic department and administration. Probably can't deviate so quickly after making that happen. Speaking as a fan, would love to see some kind of evidence that the schedule is paying big dividends. Haven't seen much so far.

 

[The_CornTorch]

LOL, if SF is asking all his guys to go to bed at 8PM, no wonder we don't seem too motivated to play. And, this needing "a full 8 hours of sleep" is just plain hogwash.

Any peer reviewed study will show you that the vast majority of the population needs somewhere between 7-9 hours per night. Every individual is different, and the need changes as you age.

But this idea of "just not needing more than 4-5 hours per night" has no basis in the scientific evidence. There DOES seem to be a genetic link to reduced sleep need – but we're talking about .1% of any given population that shows those markers.

 

[Husker Country Doc]

The primary reason for morning practices is that is when testosterone is at its peak. They then "exponentially accelerate" that testosterone in their circuit workout starting with sets of back squats. That's the main reason.

The secondary reasons are kids having to go to bed earlier so getting in less trouble, football getting out of the way and first thing the kids are focused on so they can have the rest of the day for class, etc.

To your point, Penn State did morning practices because of the testosterone science but then changed back to afternoon practices because kids weren't getting enough sleep and that was paramount to them compared to higher testosterone on a tired athlete.

Testosterone is made while we sleep.

That's one of the easiest ways to raise your testoserone: Get more sleep.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

Any peer reviewed study will show you that the vast majority of the population needs somewhere between 7-9 hours per night. Every individual is different, and the need changes as you age.

But this idea of "just not needing more than 4-5 hours per night" has no basis in the scientific evidence. There DOES seem to be a genetic link to reduced sleep need – but we're talking about .1% of any given population that shows those ma

Maybe...although I'm more concerned that we think we can tell 18+ year old young men to be in bed by 8pm.
=====================
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/golden-slumbers/201210/increase-longevity-seven-hours-sleep

According to Dr. Kripke’s study, sleeping more than seven hours and less than five and a half hours has been found to decrease longevity. The research of Gregg Jacobs, Ph.D. from the University of Massachusetts Medical School also validates that five and a half hours of sleep is sufficient to maintain one’s health. Dr. Jacobs' concept is called “core sleep.” While sleeping seven hours is ideal for longevity, there are other factors that can enhance the quality and depth of sleeping seven hours a night.

 

[The_CornTorch]

Maybe...although I'm more concerned that we think we can tell 18+ year old young men to be in bed by 8pm.
=====================
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/golden-slumbers/201210/increase-longevity-seven-hours-sleep

According to Dr. Kripke’s study, sleeping more than seven hours and less than five and a half hours has been found to decrease longevity. The research of Gregg Jacobs, Ph.D. from the University of Massachusetts Medical School also validates that five and a half hours of sleep is sufficient to maintain one’s health. Dr. Jacobs' concept is called “core sleep.” While sleeping seven hours is ideal for longevity, there are other factors that can enhance the quality and depth of sleeping seven hours a night.

Referring to the study you're citing:

"Sleep experts said the research [study] had several flaws. The study was not designed to look at sleep's effect on longevity. It relied on patients' recollections of their sleep habits and did not ask if they took naps. It did not look at the quality of people's sleep or whether they felt drowsy all day."

 

[The_CornTorch]

Maybe...although I'm more concerned that we think we can tell 18+ year old young men to be in bed by 8pm.
=====================
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/golden-slumbers/201210/increase-longevity-seven-hours-sleep

According to Dr. Kripke’s study, sleeping more than seven hours and less than five and a half hours has been found to decrease longevity. The research of Gregg Jacobs, Ph.D. from the University of Massachusetts Medical School also validates that five and a half hours of sleep is sufficient to maintain one’s health. Dr. Jacobs' concept is called “core sleep.” While sleeping seven hours is ideal for longevity, there are other factors that can enhance the quality and depth of sleeping seven hours a night.

CDC public health guidelines are in keeping with best clinical evidence. But what does the CDC know.

Getting enough sleep?

Learn how much sleep you need for good health.

www.cdc.gov

Now, if you wanted to argue that sleeping MORE than 9 hours per night was detrimental to your health, you'd have a legitimate point there.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

CDC public health guidelines are in keeping with best clinical evidence. But what does the CDC know.

Getting enough sleep?

Learn how much sleep you need for good health.

www.cdc.gov

Now, if you wanted to argue that sleeping MORE than 9 hours per night was detrimental to your health, you'd have a legitimate point there.

You've shown nothing to support your contention yet...and no, the guidelines aren't evidence of anything. Much like the 8 glasses of water wives tale, 8 hours of sleep is a myth supported by a lot of folks who've not bother to prove it.