Great post.IF there is going to be a de-commit from a player who commits in November, it is going to happen pretty quickly due to signing day. Is this really more damaging than a guy who commits in May and then decommits in December? The school "kept" the commit for 6 months, probably thought they were locked in a great place, and then the kid is gone. When a de-commit comes from a guy who was committed longer, does that also mean that player wasn't vetted properly?
Yes, it is important to do as much work as possible as early as possible,. Blaming someone for not doing enough work when a guy emerges late or maybe it was thought the player was not interested or destined for another school is a little silly. Let's look at the alternative. There is a guy who shows interest in coming to NU, he looks like a player on film and the coaches think he will help, but the background check isn't done. So NU should just not offer or not accept his commitment and let him go play for XYZ State? Previous coaches have been condemned pretty harshly for not signing the full number allowed.
It seems people are pretty happy right now NU got a punter from Australia and might get a JUCO CB, even after signing day. Are they going to feel the same way if they transfer next year because they were late offers and not vetted properly? I guess bottom line, it is really, really easy to sit back and judge, rationalize and criticize the performance of others while typing anonymously on a message board. Sure, some may have inside knowledge, but is it complete knowledge of all situations? If it is and they know they can do better, i hope they are applying for consultant, assistant coach and other positions in the program because we all want it to get better.
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Frustrating to see other B1G schools STILL adding recruits
- Thread starter huskerman1
- Start date
Great post.
If they like any of our other players that left they will end up at lower programs, but we complain they are not here. Maybe they were not as good as we/they thought.
Both are legit 4* players. I'd be shocked if both aren't playing for a P5 program.
I think assuming we are doing everything at the last second is glass half empty. First, you are correct, Held does have great connections. The beauty of having those type of connections is you get to put some trust in the juco coach's opinion, because he has a relationship with that player. It may not be a solid as having our own staff member knowing the player, but it's far better than 'well, the kid camped with us as a junior'. That Juco coach knows his family, he knows his background, he's seen his work in the classroom and on the field. That's a huge advantage for us. Would I like to have it be our staff member who knows all of this? Of course, but that would mean spreading guys ridiculously thin, or hiring an even larger staff filled with 'analysts'. Held is an advantage for us that many schools don't have, so I'm glad we are making use of it.
As for the guys who were commits, then decommits, who replaced them? Did we upgrade with the replacement? Were there insurmountable grade issues we discovered? Were there character issues we discovered? Who else was offering them, and were they showing interest in those offers? What was their season/career like? Were they players who came on strong late? Finally, where did they go? My point being, just because we didn't spend a year or two getting to know a kid doesn't mean we weren't doing our job. There are always kids who come from out of the blue because they just explode late, and we aren't the only team that look for them or find them. There are also kids who we may lose interest in the more we get to know them or we see how they progress after they are offered/commit. How is Sorensen that much different than Aho? One was our first commit of the 2021 class, but was on his way out the door almost before we had our second. There was obviously a change of heart. It doesn't matter if it was us or him, just as it doesn't matter with Aho, there was a change and another player became the target.
You mentioned Pelini, the coach who seemed to be the master of leaving scholarships on the shelf because he didn't fill his classes. Personally, I'd much rather take a shot at a kid who has some talent, but may not be brimming with stability, than leave my roster with holes. Would you take a flyer on Mo Washington again? That kid made some mindblowing plays, and if we'd been lucky enough to have him settle in just a little, we could have had an elite talent. Instead we got a royal headache, but I'd still take a flyer on a kid of that talent level over tossing out scholarships to a local 3* TE who might make a fine blocker over his career. As cruel as it may seem, 3* TE isn't going anywhere, he's eating up that scholarship for 4 years. Elite, but unknown kid is far more likely to bailout if things aren't to his liking. Turnover sucks, unless you need scholarships to fill other areas, then you almost hope for it.
I also think you are pointing at several current recruiting/departure events, while ignoring the most glaring drivier of some of them, which is Covid. Homesickness is ALWAYS a risk, no matter the distance, but in a year like this, when the ability to connect with the staff, the trainers, your teammates, the local community, the student body, is completely changed, it becomes 10 times as bad. Couple that with the concern many of these kids likely have for family and friends back home, and it becomes crushing. I don't want to come across cranky, but you've jumped on the staff for all these recruiting troubles, tying departures to distance and/or a lack of relationship, but seem to be leaving out the one giant factor that we've never dealt with before. Gray to me sounds like a guy who has genuine concerns about something family related. He had a great relationship with the program, and was one of the strongest peer recruiters. Were we supposed to not go after a kid like that because there might be some crazy pandemic that jumps out and changes our entire world? Of course not, because we need studs, and we can't find enough of them in our own backyard. This could have been any player, even one in our own backyard who's family wasn't comfortable with their kid jumping into the risk of being on a campus with Covid.
I've read some comments that suggest Frost does things in his recruiting that are vastly different than some of the other staffs we've had. My question to those who seem to have trouble with that is: So? Tossing out the first class, which from the late start to the high ranking part was borderline miraculous, but hardly a model for consistency, are we disappointed with the talent on paper? Again, getting past the development discussion, are we unhappy with the guys we got, be it local or long distant talent? I'm not. I'm pretty impressed we bagged not only most of the top local guys we wanted, but pulled plenty of highly ranked players out of SEC country, and across the map (even from our rivals backyards). Yet all I read is second guessing. And exactly which players that some consider local did we miss on outside of this year that guys would say are 'must get'? Watts? Anyone else? If so, is it possible the coaches may not have seen those players as 'must get' as some of you? Maybe they didn't see the ceiling, or fit as being what they want, so they looked, and obviously found someone they preferred elsewhere. They didn't just leave the scholarship unused, they filled the need as they saw fit.
It's fine for us to speculate some, because this is a chat board and that's what it's designed for. What I think becomes problematic is when we make comments as fact. Unless someone here has a close relationship with someone in Frost's inner circle, not just someone who knows someone who washes the gear or helps in the A/V department, but is actually on the staff, then none of the assumptions are fact. 'That was a total shock to the staff and they are scrambling', gee, we've never heard that before. Do we think there was scrambling when Freeman or Gabbert bailed? We'd spent hundreds of hours hammering those relationships, yet they disappeared like a fart in the wind. I could easily say that there was panic in those staffs when kids bailed, and I'd probably be right, but I wouldn't have actually, real first hand knowledge that what I was saying was fact. I have always been impressed with many members here who have areas of expertise, but even those who have considerable amounts, I don't believe any are at the level of those we seem to see criticized or second guessed regularly. 'We can't miss on the local talent', well, we've gotten our share over the last several years, and yes, we've missed on a few, but name me a staff that didn't? If these guys blew people off like Pelini or Callahan was famous for, then go ahead and be critical, but from where I sit in the cheap seats, I'm seeing strong efforts to keep these guys around. If they get all moist thinking about Fleck love, or Hawkeye gear, that's life, I don't see a need to change our entire recruiting style to make those guys feel that much more 'special'. That type of thinking is what buried Bo in my mind. Focusing on a small group, hammering them hard, then hoping you don't get left at the alter has just as many risks as throwing a wide net. Until we can't land solid recruiting classes, I'm fine letting our guys work as they have.
Did I miss where Jaden Francois left??
He didn't.
Rumors are swirling.
It's obviously the preferred method when we can keep a strong relationship over a period of time, which has given us rewards with players like McCaffery, Smothers, and some of our linemen. But life in the recruiting world seems to have changed for most teams, and to their credit, Frost has adapted to this pretty well. Our most explosive players were ones we came in on over a pretty short period of time. Can we imagine if we hadn't landed AM, or Wandale, or even Mo? How would we feel about our backfield if we didn't have Mills, a juco we only had a pretty short courtship with. You are dwelling on failures while ignoring successes.
Our staff was pretty upfront with how they got a few of the commits very late in the process last year. I don't think they suggested it was their first choice, and Frost alluded to that in his pressers. Some of that was because we didn't land some of those 'long relationship guys', so when it comes to plan B actions, I'd applaud the staff for finding the caliber of athletes they were able to, because the alternative is we go without using a scholly, something I know you are rightly critical of, or using it on a big reach or walkon, neither give us the potential upside the higher caliber athlete does.
That JUCO DB is absolutely in part because of the departures, but then again, without the departures, we wouldn't have the scholly for him. I'd also point out this kid is being spoken of as one who could potential fight for a starting job because he's that talented. Do we truly think we even had a shot at him, without the circumstances both he and the Huskers are in, when he was by all accounts he desired by all the SEC schools? This kid is one we'd want on our roster if we'd started recruiting him last year or yesterday, so this isn't some knee jerk because Gray left, it's a gift from the gods if we land him.
I think you need to really get over the loss of Dickerson or Johnson, because they made their decision, and it wasn't a failure on the part of the staff. If we needed to promise starting jobs or excessive playing time, or that they were the only kids we were offering, or get them 8 million 'likes' on every tweet, then they would have failed to be happy when the harsh realities punched them in the face when they got to campus. As for coaches running to far away Minnesota when we have a recruiting group coming in, are you saying they weren't around for the entire weekend, because I'll call BS on that. I can run to MN on a Friday night, and be back the same day, or at worst, but morning. Even if they spent a full day there, recruits are around campus for most of a weekend depending on flights. Frost and Chin weren't going to be walking them around campus on tours, so their absents for periods of time isn't earth shattering. I remember some of my trips as a kid, and depending on who I had the best relationship with, that's who they kept me connected with for much of my trip...and it wasn't always the HC.
Well, I think we agree on the fact that the coaches don't want to be in the position again, but the only reason we are short is we have 3 kids who apparently are having concerns or pressures that go beyond football, and it certainly wasn't something the staff could have foreseen and adjusted recruiting to accommodate. Again, this is severe second guessing, and ignores an extremely bizarre event that we've never experienced before. I for one am purely amazed at the level of recruiting these guys have maintained given our record, lumps and bumps from the roster, improved play with some of our opponents and the less than flattering commentary from many in the media. As I mentioned before, unless we have people who are speaking directly with the staff on a regular basis, then I think it's a mistake to assume anyone here fully, or even partially knows what is going on with the recruiting side.
ShortSideOption
Guest
First paragraph. Absolutely. JUCO has a ton of advantages for Nebraska because you can see how kids do outside of where they grew up. We also went there because we didn't want to commit 4-5 years to kids on short notice, we only wanted 2-3 years.
Second paragraph is the exact reason i've been talking to you about on why you don't want to wait until November or December. Too many issues you have to sort out in not enough time to fill your class.
Pelini absolutely screwed up with roster management. And we are going down that path again. Us being at 78 scholarship players on campus right now is an issue, and that issue isn't the fault of previous administrations or coaches. You take the Mo Washington flyers all day. You take the Zavier Betts all day and hope they get their academics. You can take those flyers with your plus 3 buffer.
Covid is a huge factor, it's another reason losing Dickerson is a blow like i've been stating. Gotta keep the in-state guys. Was covid a factor for Andre Hunt, Willie Canty, Mo Washington, Cam Jones, Dominick Watt, Miles Jones, Greg Bell, Katerian LeGrone, Justin McGriff, CJ Smith, Jaron Woodyard, Barrett Pickering, Will Jackson, Darien Chase, Desmond Bland, or JD Spielman? There will always be things that pop up why people that aren't from Nebraska need to get home, just add this to the list. We are just adding it as another excuse right now just like Riley culture.
I actually like how we go about our recruiting, if we can keep them. It does us no good to get guys like Henry Gray and Jaiden Francois and be ok we didn't get Xavier Watts because of it and then have them not even make it to fall camp.
I speak directly to the coaches, so I feel i'm pretty safe with what I say. Other people may speculate though.
ShortSideOption
Guest
Absolutely not dwelling on failures and ignoring successes. I've even stated some of the guys we got late are going to be good for us. You are dwelling on my negative comments and not acknowledging my positive comments for some reason. A lot of people tend to do that. Not sure why.
Again, I actually like going and getting Pheldarius Payne, Niko Cooper, or Jordon Riley as backups because you aren't "married" to them for as long. But would I have rather had Kaden Johnson who we courted all 2020 and flew up to see while most of those guys were on their official to Lincoln? Absolutely.
I'm happy with this late addition JUCO DB, just like I was happy with our late addition of Keem Green that all the SEC schools wanted and was highly ranked. Falling back on JUCO guys is a great way to feel better about ourselves, but our head coach looks at them as a short term fix. We are trying to grab someone to fill our spots in June because our two four stars we got in our 2020 class everyone was so excited about haven't came back yet. I guess that's a positive.
I will get over us losing out on in-state recruits when we can get our out of state guys to stick around and/or we start winning again. Until then it's something we need to make a priority. Scott said as much with calls to a couple of my buddies in the coaching community. I appreciate you getting over it though, but i'm glad our head coach hasn't. Frost and Chin took a private jet up to Minnesota and spent the better part of Saturday there. Absolutely there were things that the recruits on campus were doing that they didn't need to see Frost and Chin. Luckily those guys were choosing us over East Carolina, Kansas, and Florida International. I can promise you though if they went on to visit a bigger program the following weekend and the head coach spent the whole time with them, it would be an issue. Again, lucky we are Nebraska.
I speak directly to the staff. I agree that Other people may not Based on what I read. But my intel has been pretty much spot on when I say it, which is why I get the benefit of the doubt now-a-days. Whether you choose to believe what I say or not is of no matter to me. Our staff does a great job in a lot of areas, but let's just add Covid to the list of reasons like "transition class", "Riley culture", and whatever else we say to make ourselves feel better when guys transfer or we finish 5-7 when people picked us to win our division.
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I am glad the NU coaches probably don't read the message boards too much. Otherwise, they might not be so free with sharing their information if they read how thoroughly you critique their efforts.
Maybe its just me, but i think if i were close to people, i would do everything i could to help them succeed, rather than continually point out how inadequate their efforts are to get 17-18 year old kids to come play for them year after year. As i have said before, i sincerely hope you have your application in and can get hired to help them pull in some of these kids that NU is missing out on. I think that would be a step in the right direction for NUs recruiting efforts.
ShortSideOption
Guest
Can you point to examples in the post that you replied to that you are referencing? I actually have two things I mention in there that came directly from the staff. Or are you just focusing on what I say we need to improve on that our staff has told me and choosing to ignore the positive things I say?
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When you continue beating the drum that we need to get our classes from the early commits, that suggests we aren't trying to, or not doing enough. Remember, we are still a very unknown entity. Sure we have a great fan base, and there are rumors we were once a top team, but beyond our coach being someone who had an amazing season, we don't have a ton of influence in the recruiting world. We have a staff that has pulled in some extremely well rated classes. Now admittedly, they didn't do it in the most desired or classic manner, but they did it. I'm sure they want to have 80% full by the conference games, but that hasn't happened, and it's not because a lack of effort or professionalism.
We have NEVER kept all of our instate guys, and sometimes that's their choice, sometimes that's ours. In the most recent instance, it's their choice, and no one can say we didn't work to keep them. You continuing to beat this drum suggests you don't think we did enough, so let's clear that up by hearing what you feel we failed to do? The Dickerson kid got all warm and fuzzy when they said he was the Gophers #1 priority, is that what we failed to do? Johnson said he liked the stability in the Hawks, so what can we do to counter that? Since you brought up the defections, let's hear why you feel those players are no longer with the program? How many are character problems? How many are coaching rifts? How many didn't ever make it? How many didn't like the competition? How many saw the writing on the wall? How many have 'issues' that have them wanting to get closer to home? How many are a part of the first class which we all agree was a seat of the pants mad dash? How many are huge losses because they left to become studs and P5 programs?
Why didn't they make it to fall camp? Again, was it because they aren't good players or good people? Did they get mad at the coaches? No, based on the early information, it's because they've experienced something we've never dealt with. Gray actually was here, but in his defense, that might have actually been worse given he was pretty isolated. How is Watts even relevant when he went to a school that is for some reason one he always wanted to go to? How far do you go to try to keep him? What would you say if he got uncomfortable with the idea of traveling to South Bend with Covid being an issue? Should all schools now only recruit close to home? The SEC is going to widen the margin if that's the case.
I'll take you at your word you talk to the coaches, but folks I know who speak to them on business matters, say they are not particularly chatty about the inner workings of the program.
“Happy with late addition JUCO DB”- does this mean you are are confident he is N if coursework is completed?
I can't imagine if I skipped my senior spring semester of high school, went to college, and the college shut down and I was asked to stick around a while as people figure out if it is okay to be face-to-face with other kids my age. Not a lot of people have been in those shoes, so I'm going to cut a lot of slack to Mr. Gray and potentially Mr. Francois.
We’ve had highly rated players leave and none ended up better than NU. So they could be the first.
