Coronavirus Status Updates

[Chi-Town Cube]

But another problem is you simply can't stockpile all the resources needed for EVERY scenario. For example, NY governor was roasted for not having ventilators stockpiled. At $10k ea, why in the hell would you have a 10 Million? dollars (1000 ventilators) in equipment just sitting there?

Also, As far as hospital resources, you have to have the staff available to do that. If you called up all the nurses in the NG, it would pull those nurses away from their regular nursing jobs. There would be no net gain.

Covid is merely a footnote for those relatively healthy people under 50. If you have comorbidities, and are over 50, this could get bad.

This is a fair point. We have a field hospital set up in Milwaukee. I'm not sure who is staffing it, but I assume it is military providers. So far, I don't think we are going to need it, although our bed situation is so bad right now that maybe we should.

We may have a strategic stockpile of ventilators to some degree. Honestly, given that many infectious diseases behave like COVID in that they surge and recede, we should be able to move equipment better in such a scenario to support surge sites.

I would change the verb merely to mostly. About a quarter of our current inpatients are under 50. But, as I said earlier, colon cancer is rare before 50, but it happens and is tragic. There are some seemingly inexplicable and tragic deaths with COVID, including doctors and nurses in their 20s, but because those cases get so much press, the fact these cases are huge outliers sometimes gets lost and makes people at low risk become irrationally afraid.

When this first started and I was looking at what was happening in Italy, I'll admit I wrote "in the event of my death" letters to my kids. Now that we are armed with more data, I'm not overly worried. Obviously, my number could get called, but it could in any other number of ways as well. We had a nurse die from pancreatic cancer in her early 30's, for example.

Now for my parent who are in their early 70s, they need to be overly careful.

So far, with masking and distancing, we've generally been able to handle the surges. That's what I hope people realize. With common sense, distancing, and mask wearing we can probably keep most educational services open and maximize economic output and hopefully keep more painful choices, like lockdowns, off the table.

 

[johnrr6]

With all due respect....you guys miss my point entirely.

show me a nationwide reporting system that covers state, private, public AND federal assets for critical equipment, medicines, staffing, bed availability...So I as a leader can direct assets to where they are needed. Answer...we don’t have one nor do we even require the various institutions or states or military assets to cooperate with one another.

Show me how anyone could possibly think that a Government agency, even with a robust lab, could produce tests to cover the entire population of the United States at 328 million people. An obvious impossibility from the start yet we did not farm out testing capabilities or even settle on a test for over a critical month.

Show me laws that prohibit the interference of politics into the release of information from said government agency. Nope don’t have them.

Show me a “nationwide pandemic plan” signed off by the HHR, CDC, NIH, DoD, Congress and the President. At least a BASIS....a plan that can be pulled out...dusted off and parts rewritten quickly to cover a developing situation. Nope...don’t have it....

We went into this semi blind and we REACTED....at least our individual states reacted as best they could...sometimes at cross purposes like bidding wars on critical supplies.

OK...fine...at this point it is what is....

My point is that we kinda this...I guess the nicest you could say is “half hazardly” yet we had adequate time and resources at our disposal to prepare.

We have learned an ENORMOUS amount of “lessons learned” and those need to be cranked into an overall National disaster preparedness plan to cover pandemics. At the very least a nationwide mandatory reporting system that can be activated in emergency for all medical facilities absolutely must happen.

Else history just repeats itself.

Oh and my National Guard and Reserve Friends....I understand you were called up...for your state or general location as a Guardsman, Reservists are broader ranging. What I think is necessary is an accounting for ALL assets so say New Jersey needs help.... areas that have virtually no cases can send their state assets as federal resources. Federalizing the Guard. Reserve forces is easier since they are already federalized. And I TOTALLY recognize that NG and Reservists usually work normally in the Civilian health field. Does ANY current pandemic planning take that into consideration? My guess is NO.

I love you guys...I was an Army Paratrooper/ Ranger for 25 years. Got patched up one time by a Reserve Hospital unit. Wonderful people and totally professional. All I am saying is that we need to get our crap to getter MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better next time.

And we need some sort of National Procedures and Plan...not individual states reacting on their own. Don’t get me wrong, I love decentralized control...the commander in the field...boots on the ground. But I also have to be able to give that commander in the field the ability to win with logistics and support.

 

[johnrr6]

@BleedinRedTilDead

I understand exactly what you were saying and I did not mean to sound like these units were not called up or ignored. I know they were. We had some units here in Virginia called up. My point is that you were called up and deployed as a army unit down to Fort Hood yet Army and other Federal assets are not linked into the civilian structure. Are your test swabs for Army personnel and their families? Do these test results get reported into the overall state health system?Do Positive tests get reported to state health authorities. Are the beds in the Ft Hood Hospital and the ICU beds included in state overall numbers? Ventalators etc.

I don’t know. I suspect that a positive test has to be reported to the state but if the individual is hospitalized at Ft Hood...the Hospitializaion is never counted since it’s a federal resource.

See what I am getting at here?

Nobody at the National Level really KNOWS our REAL percentages of critical things like available beds, hospitalizations, staffing, available PPE, available meds etc. Because there is not national reporting system.

How can you adequately direct available assets if you don’t truly know what is really happenings all I am saying.

 

[Husker Country Doc]

With all due respect....you guys miss my point entirely.

show me a nationwide reporting system that covers state, private, public AND federal assets for critical equipment, medicines, staffing, bed availability...So I as a leader can direct assets to where they are needed. Answer...we don’t have one nor do we even require the various institutions or states or military assets to cooperate with one another.

Show me how anyone could possibly think that a Government agency, even with a robust lab, could produce tests to cover the entire population of the United States at 328 million people. An obvious impossibility from the start yet we did not farm out testing capabilities or even settle on a test for over a critical month.

Show me laws that prohibit the interference of politics into the release of information from said government agency. Nope don’t have them.

Show me a “nationwide pandemic plan” signed off by the HHR, CDC, NIH, DoD, Congress and the President. At least a BASIS....a plan that can be pulled out...dusted off and parts rewritten quickly to cover a developing situation. Nope...don’t have it....

We went into this semi blind and we REACTED....at least our individual states reacted as best they could...sometimes at cross purposes like bidding wars on critical supplies.

OK...fine...at this point it is what is....

My point is that we kinda this...I guess the nicest you could say is “half hazardly” yet we had adequate time and resources at our disposal to prepare.

We have learned an ENORMOUS amount of “lessons learned” and those need to be cranked into an overall National disaster preparedness plan to cover pandemics. At the very least a nationwide mandatory reporting system that can be activated in emergency for all medical facilities absolutely must happen.

Else history just repeats itself.

Oh and my National Guard and Reserve Friends....I understand you were called up...for your state or general location as a Guardsman, Reservists are broader ranging. What I think is necessary is an accounting for ALL assets so say New Jersey needs help.... areas that have virtually no cases can send their state assets as federal resources. Federalizing the Guard. Reserve forces is easier since they are already federalized. And I TOTALLY recognize that NG and Reservists usually work normally in the Civilian health field. Does ANY current pandemic planning take that into consideration? My guess is NO.

I love you guys...I was an Army Paratrooper/ Ranger for 25 years. Got patched up one time by a Reserve Hospital unit. Wonderful people and totally professional. All I am saying is that we need to get our crap to getter MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better next time.

And we need some sort of National Procedures and Plan...not individual states reacting on their own. Don’t get me wrong, I love decentralized control...the commander in the field...boots on the ground. But I also have to be able to give that commander in the field the ability to win with logistics and support.

Not national, but this is from the local health district here in south central NE, as of yesterday, I assume:

1. 159 out of 501 med surge beds available
2. 24 out of 65 ICU beds available
3. 73 inpatient COVID positives, 3 PUIs
4. 9 vents in use out of 88, 7 for COVID positive patients.

If every Public health district is tracking these numbers, the feds would simply have to collect the data.

 

[BleedinRedTilDead]

@BleedinRedTilDead

I understand exactly what you were saying and I did not mean to sound like these units were not called up or ignored. I know they were. We had some units here in Virginia called up. My point is that you were called up and deployed as a army unit down to Fort Hood yet Army and other Federal assets are not linked into the civilian structure. Are your test swabs for Army personnel and their families? Do these test results get reported into the overall state health system?Do Positive tests get reported to state health authorities. Are the beds in the Ft Hood Hospital and the ICU beds included in state overall numbers? Ventalators etc.

I don’t know. I suspect that a positive test has to be reported to the state but if the individual is hospitalized at Ft Hood...the Hospitializaion is never counted since it’s a federal resource.

See what I am getting at here?

Nobody at the National Level really KNOWS our REAL percentages of critical things like available beds, hospitalizations, staffing, available PPE, available meds etc. Because there is not national reporting system.

How can you adequately direct available assets if you don’t truly know what is really happenings all I am saying.

the testing that I'm doing personally is for units that are scheduled to deploy overseas, although the drive thru clinic at the hospital on base is for both Army personnel and dependents. The numbers do get reported to the regional health dept as I've been in on meetings where they've coordinated with how intensive they want restrictions both on and off base. I'm not 100% sure about the beds & ventilator @ hospital question- my pay grade isnt high enough for that and I'm just too busy to dive into looking haha

I think the biggest issue with "linking" federal assets like the reserves and NG, especially during a health crisis like we've seen comes down to the simple fact that if you're pulling them from their civilian jobs- that may be doing the same thing as they would be if they were called up- then what good is it TRULY doing, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I would venture to say a vast majority of medical personnel in those 2 branches carry civilian jobs working in similar fields. It's a tough situation with a LLOOTTTT of factors...

I also agree with Doc (I think that's who made the point previously) about the supply of ventilators- and just supplies in general. There's logistically no feasible way to fully prepare for a pandemic of this proportion. Even if you stockpiled 100k ventilators in a centralized facility, you've got to worry about a miriad of issues -one specifically-them being degraded over the years while not being used and just "in case" something happens, and then you waste time and energy fixing the very thing you thought would help you out immediately. Now, take the word "ventilators" and replace it with about any one of the 500 pieces of equipment that the medical personnel need to treat a patient hospitalized with COVID(500 as a general number of course).

I laugh at people that say they wish this virus would just go away already (like they think it's just going to be like **POOF**- gone), or that we just dump a bunch of money into a vaccine and treat it already. This will be around forever now, and who's to say that a vaccine would work in the end game, so I don't really know where we go as a world if we're going to live in fear....entire cities (Vegas) and industries (entertainment as a whole) will crumble if it keeps up at its current rate.

 

[johnrr6]

It's a tough situation with a LLOOTTTT of factors.

thanks for the reply and good luck! You guys are the front line troops in this conflict.

I think this is exactly my point. I can’t find any evidence of national PLANNING that takes these kind of personnel factors into consideration.

We need a national reporting system for Pandemic critical data as well as and overall national, approved pandemic plan that takes all the factors that we have learned from this “school of hard knocks” we are currently going through.

Best advice I ever had was from grizzled sergeant major who told me: “I don’t know about that Napoleon fellow....that no plan survives first contact ....waaay above my pay grade. But I can tell you from personal experience that it’s far better to have a solid, basic plan that has been rehearsed.... and then adjust from there.”

We not only don’t seem to have a solid basic plan. But we also lack the tools necessary to even build that plan.

In a nation that is considered the most wealthy and powerful nation on earth.

The situation was new and caught our modern society by surprise. It should never be allowed to happen again. We’ve experienced it now, we’ve learned some lessons. We need to put those lessons to use.

 

[johnrr6]

If every Public health district is tracking these numbers, the feds would simply have to collect the data.

yes...my state does the same. Butagain my state ignores FEDERAL assets.

is it being done? A proper compilation?

I find zero evidence.

Honestly, I hope you are right and that someone is compiling all this information as it makes logical sense. But in the past nine months I have never seen any of this data advertised or released to the public from the CDC or HHR. The obvious assumption is...no it’s not.

 

[Husker Country Doc]

yes...my state does the same. Butagain my state ignores FEDERAL assets.

is it being done? A proper compilation?

I find zero evidence.

Honestly, I hope you are right and that someone is compiling all this information as it makes logical sense. But in the past nine months I have never seen any of this data advertised or released to the public from the CDC or HHR. The obvious assumption is...no it’s not.

I'm not sure a national picture gives you the stresses that areas are feeling regionally.

In March and April, when NYC was being overwhelmed, they extrapolated experience that to the whole country. We had only sporadic cases here in my area of NE, yet, but we were locked down. Home <----> work.

You can't extrapolate NYC to the rest of the country, and vice-versa. Its too big, wide, and varied.

 

[johnrr6]

No, agree....and that’s not what I am advocating. The worst thing that could happen would be a national powerhouse all encompassing “plan” that is so rigid it cannot react to the boots on the ground people. I mean let’s face it...one of the obvious things that has resulted from this is how important State and local government reactions have been.

What I am calling for is a structure that can track and shift available resources based on National Assets AND common sense judgment from the people who are doing the fighting.

You mention NYC.... the Hospital ship sent is a wonder! I have actually toured it. It is also the absolute WRONG asset to send at that point in time as a ship is such confined quarters it becomes far less effective than say a field hospital. There was virtually no coordination set between the local health people and the military....confusion reigned as to just WHAT this asset could provide. They finally decided it would be a good place to shift non viral cases from existing NYC hospitals but by the time procedures were finally hashed out between local health officials...the true danger had passed. The ship returned to base having hospitalized less than 100 people.

What I am calling for is plans that have already taken these factors into consideration, developed procedures, done the coordination.

You guys think this problem is too “vast”....too wide, and too diverse with too much possible change and unknowns.

That is just crazy. We put men on the moon over half a century ago. We have tech capabilities and communications capabilities better than any nation in the world. We have the finest hospitals and medical facilities in the world and the finest military that is USED to building the most detailed plans for tremendously large scale deployments.

And you honestly think we could not do this “better...even given to all our natural American aversions to losing personal freedoms and choice.

No, my friend....we did this quite poorly in an old soldier’s eyes. Part of it was the unknown and lack of experience, part was some hubris in the CDC and part has been the damn political state we are in right now. But the bottom line is that it has been a confused mess.

We should forget the finger pointing AND LEARN FROM THIS.

Prepare better for the next one.

 

[Goal-line]

The US just topped 1,100 coronavirus deaths a day. One state is getting National Guard help, and others keep breaking records | CNN

You know Covid-19 is out of control when health officials are so overwhelmed, they can't notify close contacts who may be infected.

www.cnn.com

 

[johnrr6]

@Goal-line

Above is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Ability to shift resources, if necessary.

ONE hospital in the hardest hit area in Salt Lake City is currently at 104% ICU capacity.....Not counting their “surge capacity”....

Yet latest data from the rest of the state shows: “ Across the rest of the state, 73.2 percent of ICU beds are currently occupied, while 51.1 percent of non-ICU beds are filled, according to the latest figures released on the Utah Department of Health website.”

Shifting resources to the hot point is CRITICAL in ANY conflict.....

Yet we seem to have very little National capability to do so in a reasonable amount of time....at least when it comes to this Pandemic.

Is the rise in cases worrisome? Yes
Has the amount of increased hospitalizations worrisome in Utah and elsewhere? Of course

But is it a problem that needs immediate shift in resources from the Feds? Well I just don’t know and based on the simplistic information provided by Utah....they don’t know either.

We CAN do better at this as a nation. We have the resources but lack the planning and precoordination.

Or...we simply allow the media to keep hitting us with out of context headlines and one line quotes that paint the worst. Causing us to continue to suffer the daily loss of confidence in our leaders, our methods.....and succumb to the malaise that follows.

I honestly don’t know who I am madder at right now. The media who spins doom and gloom with outlandish out of context headlines every day....or our leadership for their lack of foresight and ultimately adaptability.

One thing I do know....we CAN and MUST do better next time. Because if there is one thing for certain, history does repeat itself unless you learn from it.

 

[Goal-line]

“One thing I do know....we CAN and MUST do better “

Absolutely, correct. We ALL need to pull together in one direction. Follow the safety protocols set forth by the experts and scientists. The pandemic is not a joke or a hoax. It is real and it is here. It will not simply disappear. A vaccine is still a long way off. Treatment is still varied and basically unreliable. We must do better——-together.

 

[johnrr6]

@Goal-line

Agree....NOW is key for the immediate future.

Stop the stupid out of context scary headlnes every day.....report important facts that drive actual decision makers. (I'm looking directly at you MSM). Support the decrees of your state and local health officials and do the common sense stuff that really is not much of a burden at all. Role up our sleeves and adapt like Americans always have.....and realize that things like kids back in school are going to cause increase....it’s inevitable. The challenge is to adapt and keep living life as safely as possible under a “new normal”.

What I worry about is a year from now when this problem starts to slip from our memory. Have we learned our lessons? Have we prepared for the future?

The original idea of a CDC was created to prevent the mass confusion and react better to an incident like this. A good idea!

It failed...so OK....learn from it, pick up the pieces, make new plans, adjust.

But will we??

 

[Goal-line]

@Goal-line

Agree....NOW is key for the immediate future.

Stop the stupid out of context scary headlnes every day.....report important facts that drive actual decision makers. (I'm looking directly at you MSM). Support the decrees of your state and local health officials and do the common sense stuff that really is not much of a burden at all. Role up our sleeves and adapt like Americans always have.....and realize that things like kids back in school are going to cause increase....it’s inevitable. The challenge is to adapt and keep living life as safely as possible under a “new normal”.

What I worry about is a year from now when this problem starts to slip from our memory. Have we learned our lessons? Have we prepared for the future?

The original idea of a CDC was created to prevent the mass confusion and react better to an incident like this. A good idea!

It failed...so OK....learn from it, pick up the pieces, make new plans, adjust.

But will we??

The CDC did not fail. Politicalizing the issues of the directives by the CDC is what failed. The CDC are the people equipped with the data and the science to make the critical decisions.

If you chose to deny the facts as published by the CDC, you become part of the problem.

 

[BleedinRedTilDead]

The CDC did not fail. Politicalizing the issues of the directives by the CDC is what failed. The CDC are the people equipped with the data and the science to make the critical decisions.

If you chose to deny the facts as published by the CDC, you become part of the problem.

the CDC lost a LOT of credibility in this whole ordeal- even among Army leaders (speaking from this side of the coin).. Because the CDC was so back and forth with their directives - even just recently changing recommendations and death toll numbers, infection rates, etc.. That I KNOW army leaders have gone away from listening to what the CDC says for directives and going more towards what the Surgeon General directs, as well as their regional health command in their immediate area. I mean c'mon, how are you going to sit there and say LITERALLY on their own website that cloth masks won't stop contaminants from smoke in the air from forest fires(which the particles I believe shows are 6 times larger than COVID) but they're suitable to stop the virus? Even the most unseasoned medical professional can see the....and forgive the pun...hole in their plan and how they interpret things to the country ( and the world for that matter)