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Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Why Johnny Stanton didn't make 250 from rivals guy

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Yup....

When Pete Carroll was hired by USC, their program was a joke. No one cared about USC football. Their stadium was empty most game days, they had been a joke for over a decade. ESPN began an all out campaign to promote USC as one of the very top programs in the country. They plugged the program every chance they had, never missing an opportunity. They did not talk about USC being an up and coming program, they talked about USC as if they were one of he top programs in the country and that they had been for decades. That certainly helps recruiting. Really, the last week of January and first week of February every year it is just a coincidence that they would do story after story about how wonderful the USC campus was and how great USC was. Just a coincidence. That is my point and it is only one example of many. Notre Dame is another example but as robrored pointed out, it isn't working so well. But they'll keep trying. There is too much money at stake for them to stop.

The integrity issue that I see with College Football is that the TV Networks can help any college they want in recruiting just by hyping those selected programs. It has always been there and this is not necessarily a Nebraska issue because we do get generally favorable coverage most of the time. It will never go away but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called on it every once in awhile.
 

Actually that is not true. All that tells you is which services do the best job of predicting which schools have the best chance of winning. I could start my own service, pay absolutely little to no attention to actually scouting players, follow the top ranked teams around, and rate up their offered players and probably with a little cleverness on my part, fool people into believing I know what I am talking about. The proof in the pudding would be if one of the teams unexpectedly underachieves. Does anybody really believe that Notre Dame keeps losing with all those highly rated players? The services are guessing that they are going to turn it around and are basically like insider-traders trying to invest in the Notre Dame turnaround. Does anybody really believe that the 6-6 Miami team was loaded with 5* superstars a few years back. That all of those pathetic Florida State offensive dud teams were loaded with 5* offensive players? Again, the services followed those schools around and simply rated up their offered players. Seemed like a pretty smart bet, huh? Follow Alabama, LSU, USC, Texas, Notre Dame, Florida, and few choice others around, and even if you know absolutely NOTHING about football, chances are, you will come out okay.

Fair enough I guess. But still...I assume most of the services do more than follow schools around. I know there's a sentiment among some/many fans that some/all services do this. I don't necessarily buy that. And if THAT'S the case...that most do their own research then I still think on field results v. recruiting rankings is better than cherry picking the underrated v. the overrated.

That said...if you started your own service and you had a kid ranked fairly low initially and then you find out that LSU, Bama, FLorida, USC, Texas and Nebraska have all offered...you'd be nuts NOT to re-evaluate the situation.

I have no doubt that there is something to the idea that the services are $ driven...and that they may, at times, cater to a fan base here or there.
 
When Pete Carroll was hired by USC, their program was a joke. No one cared about USC football. Their stadium was empty most game days, they had been a joke for over a decade. ESPN began an all out campaign to promote USC as one of the very top programs in the country. They plugged the program every chance they had, never missing an opportunity. They did not talk about USC being an up and coming program, they talked about USC as if they were one of he top programs in the country and that they had been for decades. That certainly helps recruiting. Really, the last week of January and first week of February every year it is just a coincidence that they would do story after story about how wonderful the USC campus was and how great USC was. Just a coincidence. That is my point and it is only one example of many. Notre Dame is another example but as robrored pointed out, it isn't working so well. But they'll keep trying. There is too much money at stake for them to stop.

The integrity issue that I see with College Football is that the TV Networks can help any college they want in recruiting just by hyping those selected programs. It has always been there and this is not necessarily a Nebraska issue because we do get generally favorable coverage most of the time. It will never go away but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called on it every once in awhile.

Thanks for the response. I don't disagree at all. Not that this is lost on you but it's obvious why ESPN would want a los angeles area college program to be in the limelight....same with Notre Dame and their huge fan base (and equally large base that hates them enough to care).

I interpreted your original post as saying that USC's recruits aren't any better...just that the services give them more "stars"...and occasionally that may be true but the results on the field seem to back up the notion that they have better players.
 
And then there's the irony...the slamming of recruiting services while at the same time fawning over "4*" recruits as soon as they show an interest in NU.
 



And then there's the irony...the slamming of recruiting services while at the same time fawning over "4*" recruits as soon as they show an interest in NU.

I think every school has had their share of recruits that maybe get a little more attention or a little less from the services based on the school of their committment. Personally, I think some of these services are getting a little too big on themselves and are starting to take their own word as gospel as far how these kids are going to perform in college.

I think its too hard to judge a kid whos maybe 16 or 17, might have a growth spurt still pending and are having recruiting services telling the world that their size, or strength etc isnt good enough for this school or this conference etc. I love seeing the 2 and 3 stars that hit their sophmore or junior years of college with the size/strength/speed etc. and become great players when the services said otherwise.
 
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I think its too hard to judge a kid whos maybe 16 or 17, might have a growth spurt still pending and are having recruiting services telling the world that their size, or strength etc isnt good enough for this school or this conference etc.

Which is a big reason why I don't get too wrapped up in the "this kids is a MUST get" or "he's the next _____" stuff. Too many factors involved to waste much time getting excited (from a fan's perspective) about some kid who may have peaked already, may have other issues, might miss his mom, etc. Like i've said many times...what interests me more is a more overall assessment. If your team CONSISTENTLY ranks low in class rankings I think it's pretty well established you're going to have a problem in the major conferences.
 
Some of these kids just have a hard enough time getting through classes and fighting off the homesickness to become anything on the playing field no matter what their physical skills are. Recruiting services are about as subjective as the russian judges score in a figure skating.
 
My gut feeling is that if our coaches went after 2 guys (assuming the chances of signing are 95%+) where one was a 3* worker with great promise or a 5* with great talent but uncoachable then they will take the 3*. The point is our coaches are going after kids that fit our program, not stars.
 




My gut feeling is that if our coaches went after 2 guys (assuming the chances of signing are 95%+) where one was a 3* worker with great promise or a 5* with great talent but uncoachable then they will take the 3*. The point is our coaches are going after kids that fit our program, not stars.

Of course the trick is being able to determine those traits. Sometimes it's easy to spot the lazy, uncoachable guy. I imagine other times it's not so apparent.
 
Of course the trick is being able to determine those traits. Sometimes it's easy to spot the lazy, uncoachable guy. I imagine other times it's not so apparent.

Sometimes even coaches fall in love with a player's God-given ability and don't see the character warts.
 
Sometimes even coaches fall in love with a player's God-given ability and don't see the character warts.

It's not really a college football recruiting but Benoit Benjamin (Creighton center back in the day) was like this...particularly in the NBA. He had hustle issues as a college player but he was so good he still managed to get drafted 3rd overall. This guy had the body and the skills to be a dominant NBA center. All Star body/skills. But he was a slug. Played for 9 teams in 15 years in the NBA...and i remember reading articles every time he changed teams and the new team was always optimistic...as if THEY were going to be the ones to light a fire under the guy. Granted, he still had a credible NBA career (11.4 ppg over 15 years isn't awful) but he could have been so much more. As my dad would say: "Million dollar body, 10 cent head". Lawrence Phillips was the same way...once everyone knew his issues EVERY SINGLE PERSON that took a chance on him after that paid a price.
 
Thanks for the response. I don't disagree at all. Not that this is lost on you but it's obvious why ESPN would want a los angeles area college program to be in the limelight....same with Notre Dame and their huge fan base (and equally large base that hates them enough to care).

I interpreted your original post as saying that USC's recruits aren't any better...just that the services give them more "stars"...and occasionally that may be true but the results on the field seem to back up the notion that they have better players.

Fair enough. I see where you were coming from as well.
 



Fair enough I guess. But still...I assume most of the services do more than follow schools around. I know there's a sentiment among some/many fans that some/all services do this. I don't necessarily buy that. And if THAT'S the case...that most do their own research then I still think on field results v. recruiting rankings is better than cherry picking the underrated v. the overrated.

That said...if you started your own service and you had a kid ranked fairly low initially and then you find out that LSU, Bama, FLorida, USC, Texas and Nebraska have all offered...you'd be nuts NOT to re-evaluate the situation.

I have no doubt that there is something to the idea that the services are $ driven...and that they may, at times, cater to a fan base here or there.

Yes, obviously they do a certain amount of research. And I believe I have made the point in the past that if you knew that a proven talent evaluator rated a certain kid highly, it would at the very, very least, cause you to reconsider your rankings. But at some point, you have to add something to the discussion otherwise you are really not doing any evaluations at all.

But putting that point aside, I believe that the services do a fair amount of actual research and evaluation themselves. That is certainly true. But what I find is, that they sort of cheat to fill in the blanks. And the bias (and I mean here normal human bias, not agenda driven bias) stems from the fact that they extensively research some prospects and give the basic once over research to other prospects. THEN, they compare all of the prospects to each other in establishing a numerical ranking system. For example, suppose I live in Florida, know Florida HS football extensively, take great pains in evaluating Florida prospects, and then create a top 100 list where I then compare the top Florida kids to the top kids around the country and particularly Texas and California. How can I possibly make this comparison when I really haven't looked closeup at the kids from the other states? No matter how much integrity I may try to have in my Florida evaluations, the integrity breaks down in the larger comparisons even if my intentions are nothing but honorable. It gets even tougher as I rank the prospects down to 250 and beyond. And since no one has seen every single player in the country or is equally familiar with the style and quality of play everywhere in the country, that means no one person can do it. So now you have to have a committee of folks, and each member of your committee has undoubtedly different biases and evaluation beliefs even if they all agree to use the same parameters and are free of agenda driven biases. Add in the agendas and the fact that you need to make money and it is really an impossible task.

But the important thing to remember, no one service can possibly wrap their arms around the entire task. It is too enormous. That is why the evaluations of the coaches is more valuable to look at. Their task is much simpler, find players that will help them win and keep their jobs. If they are wrong (too positive or too negative) in their evaluations, they usually get fired.

The services are good for giving you a frame of reference. Coaching staffs subscribe to these services, not to evaluate players, but just to have a database to start from and also evaluate what their rivals are looking at. As a fan, I try to learn ASAP the biases of every evaluation service I read so that I have an idea of what they do well and what they don't. Of course, the problem is so often the services become a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the best athletes tend to follow them around. Then you have the which came first, the chicken or the egg situation.

The services are waiting for us to win big again. And when we do, I think we will see guys like Stanton catapault into the top 100 (or at least high in the top 250). Then we have the self-fulfilling prophecy at work again. See, we know what we are talking about. But notice in that scenario, they are really just following us around again.
 
Who do you trust to evaluate talent, Rivals and the like or Bo and Co.? Sure, the whole ratings is akin to fantasy football (make believe) but when the rubber meets the road, I'll go with what our coaches determine as TALENT.
 

The services are good for giving you a frame of reference.

I think that's the most important thing to remember for those that spend a lot of time living and dying by the recruiting process and "stars", etc.

It's not gospel. It's far from perfect. Biased at times. But in general it gives you and idea of who is doing what and roughly how your team is doing v. the competition...and in that sense they can be useful.

BUT...since I'm an argumentative son of a gun...and I'm sure EVERY fan base is like this...but I wonder when the last time anyone said one of THEIR recruits is a little overrated? "Scout just upped Joe Blow to a 4*...I just don't see it!"
 
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