Tommie Frazier vs. Turner Gill

[Huskerthom]

1996 has to do with the mid 90’s minus tommie Frazier, being replaced by one of those exQB’s you speak of…. And 1 thst is as good or was better than any (Scott Frost the player). We went from the fiesta bowl to being shut out with virtually everyone back on thst offense except TF. (Who am I’m missing?)

Maybe you are not aware. Frost was not available in 94 or 95. Mainly because in 94 he was on Stanford and 95 he was forced by NCAA to sit out a year.

Oh and let's see who else left in 95 LP, oh and a few others that were seniors that left.

7	Reggie Baul	SE
18	Brook Berringer	QB
26	Clinton Childs	IB
46	Doug Colman	MLB
41	Phil Ellis	MLB
87	Mark Gilman	TE
54	Aaron Graham	C
33	Clester Johnson	WB
22	Jeff Makovicka	FB
55	Christian Peter	DT
93	Jared Tomich	OLB
9	Tony Veland	FS
8	Tyrone Williams	RCB

To lose that many starters and 2nd teamers and not expect a small drop off. Was pretty ignorant on our part as a fan base. 1st year QB who had not played QB for 3 years. Starting Center gone. Starting nose tackle gone, MLB gone, FS gone, 2of the top 3 receivers gone. You can not be so desperate to make your case that you ignore facts. BTW with all of those replacements coming in ASU was our second game and we played against arguably their greatest team ever. Even with that, if not for a bout of the FLU we would have been back in the NC Game at the end of the season.

 

[GIFRRO]

1996 has to do with the mid 90’s minus tommie Frazier, being replaced by one of those exQB’s you speak of…. And 1 thst is as good or was better than any (Scott Frost the player). We went from the fiesta bowl to being shut out with virtually everyone back on thst offense except TF. (Who am I’m missing?)



On the other end, those exQB’s couldn’t get a 1st down in the 92 orange bowl, couldn’t complete a shovel pass. If you don’t remember the jolt the entire program felt for years to come. (Not unlike Gill) When Tommie Frazier became the starter i feel bad for you. It was magic. In the lead up to 1991 Tommy Hasse was a fan favorite of some (based off the pulse the offense showed in the citrus bowl) vs the competition compared to the likes of Mickey Joseph, mike Grant and keithen McCants (what a pleasant surprise)
Tommie Frazier did not win national titles by himself, but he is far and way the most critical aspect of not only 1994 and 1995 but the momentum he gave Nebraska for the remainder of the decade once he went toe to toe out playing Charlie ward…twice!

And you can double down on everything I said in regards to Turner Gill.

Some real ridiculous statements here.

1 we almost played for a NT in 96 and would have if the flu hadnt hit against texas and that teams struggles against asu happened cuz SF in 96 was that bad and we lost a TON of guys and yet still almost played for NT. I said tf was good, losing him hurt for the start of 96 as did lots of guys we lost. We have lots of ex qbs that were a lot better than sf in 96

2 tf was not the main reason our succes in the mid 90s. It was the new defensive shift. Thats why we basically won in 94 with a very average bb at the helm and a average qb in 97 in sf.
You basically make my point by showing we almost won im 96 with a crappy qb and then did in 97 when a crappy qb became average lol
1992 orang bowl lmao. Again, no sense. We hadnt made the full switch to the new D yet. Thats why we saw the jump the next yr
Theres no doubt tf was better than our qbs of the early 90s. Again, tf was good. He had an impact but we still win with guys like crouch, gill, possibly steve taylor....heck we won with SF he wasnt even very good.

Tf a good qb. Better than the qbs that proceeded him in the early 90s like mickey, grant, haas, etc
But not any better than tg or crouch.
He was a part of our success but he gets too much credit for it, the change in the D was the bigger impact. Our D went from subpar to dominant. Our qb play from the yrs if TG, steve taylor, kethen mccant were not any or much better. The drastic diff in the 80s and early 90s was the D

 

[GIFRRO]

Maybe you are not aware. Frost was not available in 94 or 95. Mainly because in 94 he was on Stanford and 95 he was forced by NCAA to sit out a year.

Oh and let's see who else left in 95 LP, oh and a few others that were seniors that left.

7	Reggie Baul	SE
18	Brook Berringer	QB
26	Clinton Childs	IB
46	Doug Colman	MLB
41	Phil Ellis	MLB
87	Mark Gilman	TE
54	Aaron Graham	C
33	Clester Johnson	WB
22	Jeff Makovicka	FB
55	Christian Peter	DT
93	Jared Tomich	OLB
9	Tony Veland	FS
8	Tyrone Williams	RCB

To lose that many starters and 2nd teamers and not expect a small drop off. Was pretty ignorant on our part as a fan base. 1st year QB who had not played QB for 3 years. Starting Center gone. Starting nose tackle gone, MLB gone, FS gone, 2of the top 3 receivers gone. You can not be so desperate to make your case that you ignore facts. BTW with all of those replacements coming in ASU was our second game and we played against arguably their greatest team ever. Even with that, if not for a bout of the FLU we would have been back in the NC Game at the end of the season.

And with all of that, the arguement of whose better tg or tf. Ok, do we look like that against asu if tg is the qb? No
Sf was bad in 96. Just bad and yet we still almost play for a nt.

 

[GIFRRO]

Lots of good stuff here. Let’s also not forget Tommie Frazier didn’t have Irving Fryar. I don’t believe we beat Miami without tommie, sorry cris Collinsworth apologists, but if Frazier plays the whole game, it’s a win going away.

Forgetting that we struggled the

 

[GIFRRO]

Lots of good stuff here. Let’s also not forget Tommie Frazier didn’t have Irving Fryar. I don’t believe we beat Miami without tommie, sorry cris Collinsworth apologists, but if Frazier plays the whole game, it’s a win going away.

Um might wanna go back and rewatch the game. Tf struggled early and threw a dumb pic and we were down like 17. Only when bb came in did we finally start to move the ball. If we play tf the whole game we never overcome is bad early game performance

 

[Bean]

For me this thread shows that a great QB in a good program will put us in the mostly WINs column.
I really miss the power football of Devaney and T.O.!

It will be interesting to watch what Rhule and staff will do in their second year........

 

[Warzone]

ya, im sorry bout this, but 3rd and 7 is not 4th and 8. An option play on 4th and 8, with practically no time on the clock, your Heisman trophy winning RB and Outland Trophy winning RG both out with injury, 1or 2 plays after Gill perfectly places a ball on Irving Fryars hip only to be dropped in the back of end zone..and it turns into a 25 yard touchdown... scoring wasn't despite Turner Gill. As for Gill being 'afraid' that is ridiculous. that is about as well as anyone could suck in a defense enough to get the needed yards to stay alive. he not only did that he got all 24....video loading

What you say is not wrong except for the sucking in the defense part. You can clearly see from the replay that it just didn't happen. Turner was tentative on that play. It was the exact same play Tommie ran to perfection.

 

[NoDakRed]

They both have represented Nebraska with honor and grace for many years. It doesn't matter who was better to me. What matters is how people see them now. I met a man at a Minnesota Gopher game a few years back (in Minnesota) who told me he was visiting his wife's relatives in Rochester a few years back, got bored so he went to a local bar to watch a husker game on TV. He said there were only 2 other guys in the bar so he joined them at their table. It turned out one of the men was Tommy Frazier who welcomed him to join them. He said it was an amazing afternoon and Tommy was a lot of fun. He said he will never forget it.

Reading this reminded me of my own run in with TF. After NU joined the BIG10 my brother, myself and our wives traveled from Fargo to Minneapolis to catch the game with Gophers. My brother had secured a spot in one of the lots to tailgate but was hungover that morning and forgot the meat we planned on grilling in there hotel fridge. After realizing this, he bolted to Dinkeytown to get something to grill. Right after he left, Tommie came over to our spot to see if we had any extra spoons because they forgot them and couldn't eat their chili. I immediately called my brother and had him pick up spoons. Once back to the lot we took the spoons to Tommie and his group. They were really nice, offered us food and drinks and were just normal guys to hang out with before the game. It is something we will never forget.

 

[70county]

What you say is not wrong except for the sucking in the defense part. You can clearly see from the replay that it just didn't happen. Turner was tentative on that play. It was the exact same play Tommie ran to perfection.

Would love to see the replay of which you speak. It sounds to me that the only similarity between the two was the distance to the 1st down. My recollection.of the play in which you speak was clearly not defended the same. Our first clue’s are the facts both plays had great success because both QB did two different things (Frazier kept, Gill pitched) Both executed to perfection… yet different.

How you can you say that gill was a detriment to the play in which our 3rd team tailback ran 20 yards before being touched on 4th and 8 is baffling to me. At least you’re not saying it had something to do with the graduation of the backup MLB.

 

[gazelle]

This analysis leaves so much out. Tommie had a legit #2 backup that saw meaningful playing time. Tommie also missed the majority of his Junior season with blood clots. Tommie is the only QB in college football history to win MVP in three consecutive NC games and you could argue that he played in four consecutive NC games (because the bowl alliance did not yet exist.

Unlike Frazier, Turner Gill didn't play his freshman year because no freshman played varsity back in those days. Gill also missed much of his sophomore year because of an injury to his lower leg. The press gave Frazier the MVP in those bowl games, but I would argue that in the 1994 game against Miami it was the defense that was the MVP, not Frazier. In the 1995 championship against Florida, Nebraska probably could have won with Matt Turman at QB, that is how much Nebraska outclassed that Florida team. The reason Frazier has 2 national championship rings and Gill has none is because the mid-90's teams had great defenses, and the early-80's teams didn't.

 

[TFrazier]

Um might wanna go back and rewatch the game. Tf struggled early and threw a dumb pic and we were down like 17. Only when bb came in did we finally start to move the ball. If we play tf the whole game we never overcome is bad early game performance

Nebraska was not down 17 at any point in the game.

1994 Miami Football

Behind two fourth-quarter touchdown runs by fullback Cory Schlesinger, Nebraska rallied to defeat Miami, 24-17, in the Orange Bowl to secure the Huskers' first national championship since 1971.

www.huskermax.com

 

[CrabHusker]

Nebraska was not down 17 at any point in the game.

1994 Miami Football

Behind two fourth-quarter touchdown runs by fullback Cory Schlesinger, Nebraska rallied to defeat Miami, 24-17, in the Orange Bowl to secure the Huskers' first national championship since 1971.

www.huskermax.com

I remember the 17-7 deficit.

That’s when I lost my mind and pulled a the bar top off the base and had to be removed from the premises.

Finished the game in a combination of my radio on my truck and the TV at home.

 

[70county]

Um might wanna go back and rewatch the game. Tf struggled early and threw a dumb pic and we were down like 17. Only when bb came in did we finally start to move the ball. If we play tf the whole game we never overcome is bad early game performance

but I would argue that in the 1994 game against Miami it was the defense that was the MVP, not Frazier.

We seriously need to have a homework assignment for the board. Everyone needs to go back and watch all these games that are being talked about. for this post, we will discuss the miss information about the 1995 Orange Bowl.

Tommie frazier did not "struggle" early. Nebraska began its first drive at the 15 yard line. On 1st down Phillips gauged the Miami defense like we had not seen in the previous meetings vs the Canes but utimately punted from deep in our territory. Yes, Frazier burned a timeout to avoid any bad plays at that point in the game. On Fraziers second drive, Nebraska drove from the 10 (yep both his drives backed up 15 &10) across midfield to the miami 40. 50 yards, 10 play drive both passing and running, churning out 4 first downs before taking a shot in which Muhamad did absolutely nothing to high point the ball that was on target had Abdul gone up and got it...but he didn't. A TO is a TO, INT on the 3, field position flipped 87 yards. Frazier left the game after 2 drives starting at the 10 and 15 yard line yet netted nearly half of the Cornhuskers 1st half yardage total 57 of 125. All this against a fresh jazzed up Miami defense before they'd been punched in the mouth a few times.

Unfortunately, the defense fails to stop Miami again, allowing a 97 yard TD drive to go up 10-0 on there 1st 2 drives. (which some Nebraska fans will put on Frazier and then tack on another 7 to make it sound better) On Miami's third drive they were indeed driving for another score when AJ Tellison pushed off getting interference call pushing Canes back and ultimately leaving game with separated shoulder. I mention this because it was a crucial turning point in the game. Without Tellison, Nebraska was relieved of covering Tellison and the pressure packages started to get home without the #1 WR. Critical!!

At this point Brook enters the game with Nebraska starting at the Nebraska 30, nets 6 yards on his first drive (Frazier had 7) after a nice 15 or so yard run by Phillips (whom had 5 carries for 30 on Frazier’s first 2drives) berringer takes a huge sack negating phillips run. On Berringer second drive a nice punt return gives nebraska the ball in Miami territory at there 40. another few body blows and a nice pass off play action Brook hits Gilman for the score.

Nebraska does virtually nothing the rest of Berringer time in the game vs Miami's stout defense despite the analysis of Chris Collinsworth trying to tell you Fraziers really isn't a championship caliber QB. This whole narrative about Frazier "struggling" is because Collinsworth tried his damnedest to convince you that option football was obsolete the entire game. Watch the game without his commentary and you will fill differently about Tommie's performance.
After frazier left the game, Nebraska had 8 drives starting at (30, Miami 40, 25, 49, 25, 7, Miami 4) and netted 7 points and Collinsworth and Hammond were still pounding the table for Brook once Frazier reentered the game as if he was there son.

@gazelle While i don't agree that the defense should get the nod but it ultimately turned up the heat on the Hurricanes after Tellison went out and played an outstanding game. I just don't see how anyone can watch that game and mute Collinsworth and Hammond's hatred for Option football and not come away realizing that Tommie Frazier was far and away the #1 reason Nebraska was able to come out with the victory. The 10 play drive for 50 yards from the 10 on his second drive was a clear indicator of how things would have went had he played the whole game. He picked up right wee he left off once he returned in the 4th.

@Warzone i believe the option play you referenced in our discussion is at the 5:08 mark of the 4th quarter. (2 hrs 29mins into video. The beauty of Tom Osbornes offense is the variety of the 'same" play. Gills option in 84 was a much different design and yet the same 20+ yard play.

 

[BigRedMachine]

So many people seem to forget the fact that the game vs. Miami was Frazier's first game back following the blood clots. What he was able to do in that environment against that defense in his first game back after missing several months is nothing short of phenomenal. Make no mistake: without him, we leave the Orange Bowl with another disappointing loss.

 

[GIFRRO]

We seriously need to have a homework assignment for the board. Everyone needs to go back and watch all these games that are being talked about. for this post, we will discuss the miss information about the 1995 Orange Bowl.

Tommie frazier did not "struggle" early. Nebraska began its first drive at the 15 yard line. On 1st down Phillips gauged the Miami defense like we had not seen in the previous meetings vs the Canes but utimately punted from deep in our territory. Yes, Frazier burned a timeout to avoid any bad plays at that point in the game. On Fraziers second drive, Nebraska drove from the 10 (yep both his drives backed up 15 &10) across midfield to the miami 40. 50 yards, 10 play drive both passing and running, churning out 4 first downs before taking a shot in which Muhamad did absolutely nothing to high point the ball that was on target had Abdul gone up and got it...but he didn't. A TO is a TO, INT on the 3, field position flipped 87 yards. Frazier left the game after 2 drives starting at the 10 and 15 yard line yet netted nearly half of the Cornhuskers 1st half yardage total 57 of 125. All this against a fresh jazzed up Miami defense before they'd been punched in the mouth a few times.

Unfortunately, the defense fails to stop Miami again, allowing a 97 yard TD drive to go up 10-0 on there 1st 2 drives. (which some Nebraska fans will put on Frazier and then tack on another 7 to make it sound better) On Miami's third drive they were indeed driving for another score when AJ Tellison pushed off getting interference call pushing Canes back and ultimately leaving game with separated shoulder. I mention this because it was a crucial turning point in the game. Without Tellison, Nebraska was relieved of covering Tellison and the pressure packages started to get home without the #1 WR. Critical!!

At this point Brook enters the game with Nebraska starting at the Nebraska 30, nets 6 yards on his first drive (Frazier had 7) after a nice 15 or so yard run by Phillips (whom had 5 carries for 30 on Frazier’s first 2drives) berringer takes a huge sack negating phillips run. On Berringer second drive a nice punt return gives nebraska the ball in Miami territory at there 40. another few body blows and a nice pass off play action Brook hits Gilman for the score.

Nebraska does virtually nothing the rest of Berringer time in the game vs Miami's stout defense despite the analysis of Chris Collinsworth trying to tell you Fraziers really isn't a championship caliber QB. This whole narrative about Frazier "struggling" is because Collinsworth tried his damnedest to convince you that option football was obsolete the entire game. Watch the game without his commentary and you will fill differently about Tommie's performance.
After frazier left the game, Nebraska had 8 drives starting at (30, Miami 40, 25, 49, 25, 7, Miami 4) and netted 7 points and Collinsworth and Hammond were still pounding the table for Brook once Frazier reentered the game as if he was there son.

@gazelle While i don't agree that the defense should get the nod but it ultimately turned up the heat on the Hurricanes after Tellison went out and played an outstanding game. I just don't see how anyone can watch that game and mute Collinsworth and Hammond's hatred for Option football and not come away realizing that Tommie Frazier was far and away the #1 reason Nebraska was able to come out with the victory. The 10 play drive for 50 yards from the 10 on his second drive was a clear indicator of how things would have went had he played the whole game. He picked up right wee he left off once he returned in the 4th.

@Warzone i believe the option play you referenced in our discussion is at the 5:08 mark of the 4th quarter. (2 hrs 29mins into video. The beauty of Tom Osbornes offense is the variety of the 'same" play. Gills option in 84 was a much different design and yet the same 20+ yard play.

omg lol
Only bring up facts to make your point. Leave out other facts lol
Tf pass to AM was under thrown and poorly thrown thats obviously
Im done lol
I think tf was a very good qb but overrated
I think in the 90s the flip was the change in D not tf. If it was because of tf, we dont get to the 95 orange bowl or win a nt in 97 cuz his impact isnt there most of 95 and none of 97. We didnt need him in 97, we replace him with a guy that wouldnt be top 10 of all time qbs and win Lol.If the success of the 90s was tfs brilliance how do u explain those 2 things?
Tg was better than tf, he could pass and didnt have the D that tf had. Give tg the d of the 90s, he wins 2 or 3 nts. Thats obvious because we were only a play or 2 away with a bad D from back to back nattys.
TF good but overrated. Tg better

Thats my opinion
I respect yours even tho youre wrong
Now im moving on lol