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Reflecting on Ritchie Incognito

You don't want to get me started on this topic. It's broken from both ends: middle class families get unnecessarily harassed after reports from Bad Samaritan neighbors about mundane things that were normal a generation ago, but kids who desperately need intervention in order to have a chance at survival are ignored. You can't talk about the Type-A errors that they're making without also pointing out the Type-B errors.

The whole system is based on a racialist politically-correct view of families, cultures, and human nature that is unable to cope with the reality. In South Dakota, there are kids who should be removed from dangerous homes, but there is a reluctance to do so when that minority population is so over-represented already in the numbers for child-protection services. There are kids living in meth houses, not being fed or cared for, but they won't do anything until the parents are put in jail, and the authorities have no other choice. Even then, an uncle or auntie who has the same sort of drug issues will often be the first choice for caring for the kids because they're family. Making it all even more complicated, they don't want to put minority kids in white homes, even though there is a horrible shortage of minority foster home openings and an overflow of white homes. People get really angry when I point that out. I'm sorry that that hurts your feelings. I just want the kids to be safe and in a home where they're loved and cared for. If the race doesn't match, that's a secondary issue. Most states foster systems don't see it that clearly, so some bad homes pass inspection because they're graded on a curve when there's a need for matching homes.
I taught for 34 years and am retired for the past ten years. The last ten years as a principal I saw an incredible decline in the family. There were so many single parents and so many grandparents trying to raise children it was difficult to deal with for schools. I saw a spike in kids coming to school with mental health issues and schools understaffed and unprepared to deal with them.School was often the only safe and stable environment some children experienced in their day. Today schools including elementary schools,are becoming too big. With 1400 students and over 100 teachers, staff members and administrators it’s so much easier for young kids and their problems to go unnoticed.
 

I taught for 34 years and am retired for the past ten years. The last ten years as a principal I saw an incredible decline in the family. There were so many single parents and so many grandparents trying to raise children it was difficult to deal with for schools. I saw a spike in kids coming to school with mental health issues and schools understaffed and unprepared to deal with them.School was often the only safe and stable environment some children experienced in their day. Today schools including elementary schools,are becoming too big. With 1400 students and over 100 teachers, staff members and administrators it’s so much easier for young kids and their problems to go unnoticed.
This past fall I was teaching middle school classes, and whenever a student was sent out of my classroom, I'd document it for the admin and then try to contact the parents to let them know what happened. We'd have email addresses, phone numbers, cell numbers, you name it, but at one point in October I had something like 12 or 13 consecutive students whose parents either a) had their phone or cell disconnected (most common), b) didn't answer the phone or return messages, or c) had email messages that came back as invalid addresses. The only option would be mailing addresses, and those usually weren't any better. In some cases I had to ask the student how to get a hold of his/her parent(s), and they often didn't know. I'm working at a very small school in a very rural area, so you'd assume that it shouldn't be that hard to track down parents/guardians. You'd be wrong. The number of consecutive families that couldn't be contacted isn't a large number, but when it's understood that those numbers and addresses had just been updated 2 months earlier, it's a mind-boggling amount of unpredictability and transience and (in many cases) negligence and irresponsibility.
 
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This past fall I was teaching middle school classes, and whenever a student was sent out of my classroom, I'd document it for the admin and then try to contact the parents to let them know what happened. We'd have email addresses, phone numbers, cell numbers, you name it, but at one point in October I had something like 12 or 13 consecutive students whose parents either a) had their phone or cell disconnected (most common), b) didn't answer the phone or return messages, or c) had email messages that came back as invalid addresses. The only option would be mailing addresses, and those usually weren't any better. In some cases I had to ask the student how to get a hold of his/her parent(s), and they often didn't know. I'm working at a very small school in a very rural area, so you'd assume that it shouldn't be that hard to track down parents/guardians. You'd be wrong. The number of consecutive families that couldn't be contacted isn't a large number, but when it's understood that those numbers and addresses had just been updated 2 months earlier, it's a mind-boggling amount of unpredictability and transience and (in many cases) negligence and irresponsibility.
Most people who don’t work in education have no idea how difficult life is for many kids today. Instead of helping kids schools are continuing to push test after test,and labeling kids below basic, below basic or proficient. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves.
 
Most people who don’t work in education have no idea how difficult life is for many kids today. Instead of helping kids schools are continuing to push test after test,and labeling kids below basic, below basic or proficient. Good teachers are leaving the profession in droves.
Yeah, I've pretty much reached the end of my endurance, too. My wife wants me to change careers because we can't both be teachers as we bring home too much for the good of our own children.

Fwiw, the #1 thing that I would change in education is NOT really in education. If every kid had a healthy home with parents who were healthy and loved and provided for them, we'd put a lot of the social services, counseling, and correctional workers out of jobs.
 
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Yeah, I've pretty much reached the end of my endurance, too. My wife wants me to change careers because we can't both be teachers as we bring home too much for the good of our own children.

Fwiw, the #1 thing that I would change in education is NOT really in education. If every kid had a healthy home with parents who were healthy and loved and provided for them, we'd put a lot of the social services, counseling, and correctional workers out of jobs.

Most teachers are worth so much more than the overpaid CEOs in our society. If you are as good a teacher as I want to believe you are, I hope you can afford to stay in the teaching profession (both financially and emotionally).

But we as a society don't show the respect to teachers that the good ones deserve. The difference in their paystubs bears this out. Too many entertainers, executives, professional athletes, etc. make more money in 1 year than most people make in a lifetime (I consider lifetime employment of working for around 50 years). Until this changes, our society will continue to decline. Good teachers are society's farmers with the students being the seed. If the seed isn't tended to properly, society will grow into weeds.

Maybe we are already there.
 
Most teachers are worth so much more than the overpaid CEOs in our society. If you are as good a teacher as I want to believe you are, I hope you can afford to stay in the teaching profession (both financially and emotionally).

But we as a society don't show the respect to teachers that the good ones deserve. The difference in their paystubs bears this out. Too many entertainers, executives, professional athletes, etc. make more money in 1 year than most people make in a lifetime (I consider lifetime employment of working for around 50 years). Until this changes, our society will continue to decline. Good teachers are society's farmers with the students being the seed. If the seed isn't tended to properly, society will grow into weeds.

Maybe we are already there.

Teacher pay has dramatically increased since I was a kid. The old idea that teacher pay is poor is outdated. While it depends to some extent where one lives, public sector pay is very competitive these days. In the case of teachers, I'm fine with it, and agree with the importance of the profession. My brother and daughter are teachers. I don't want to go back to when the pay was poor. But I'm not sure people understand how much it has improved.

First year teachers in the Lincoln Public Schools, with a bachelor's degree, start in the upper 40's on base salary, for a 9.5 month work year. The benefit package is incredibly generous, and beats any private sector job of which I am aware. A first year principal in Lincoln makes $130,000 plus the lucrative benefits. Assistant principals are knocking down 6 figures. My son in the private sector, 2 years older than his sister who is a teacher, works nearly double her hours, year round, and makes $15,000 less, without nearly the amount of benefits. Teachers and administrators make pretty good scratch these days.
 
Teacher pay has dramatically increased since I was a kid. The old idea that teacher pay is poor is outdated. While it depends to some extent where one lives, public sector pay is very competitive these days. In the case of teachers, I'm fine with it, and agree with the importance of the profession. My brother and daughter are teachers. I don't want to go back to when the pay was poor. But I'm not sure people understand how much it has improved.

First year teachers in the Lincoln Public Schools, with a bachelor's degree, start in the upper 40's on base salary, for a 9.5 month work year. The benefit package is incredibly generous, and beats any private sector job of which I am aware. A first year principal in Lincoln makes $130,000 plus the lucrative benefits. Assistant principals are knocking down 6 figures. My son in the private sector, 2 years older than his sister who is a teacher, works nearly double her hours, year round, and makes $15,000 less, without nearly the amount of benefits. Teachers and administrators make pretty good scratch these days.
I've been teaching for 20+ years at a wide range of schools from excellent to awful, from on the reservation to rural white to overseas in 3 countries: my salary now is $43,000. Am I well paid? I can make more elsewhere, so, yes, location is the chief factor in pay, but when you factor in cost of living, quality of teaching experience, etc., there's absolutely no comparison as to where is the best place to be a teacher: overseas. In most mediocre paying teaching jobs overseas, the pay is equivalent to what teachers get in America, except for the following: 1) no taxes; 2) better insurance and perks; 3) housing is covered; 4) most schools provide a reasonable moving allowance and round-trip tickets for the entire family once per year back home. I'm back teaching in South Dakota because my wife and I have 3 young children, my parents' health had been failing, and we wanted both grandkids and grandparents to have some time with each other. There is no other way that we would be making the financial sacrifices that we are to be here. Our house (which is all that we could afford) is smaller than the apartments that were provided for us overseas.

The 9 1/2 month work-year is also a load of crap. We have to keep taking classes forever to keep up our certification, and those rarely are paid for by schools. Add in early starts for fall sports practices, summer workouts, etc., and it's not exactly lying next to the pool sipping a Mai Tai. Since my family will barely see me from the beginning of August through the end of football, I have to get everything done for the fall during the summer.

Understand, I have a business degree with a heavy emphasis in accounting and economics, and I've taught advanced level economics for much of my teaching career: I understand tradeoffs, costs and benefits, etc. As long as there are people in rural and suburban areas who make enough for their whole family, you'll have their spouses who are often willing to work for relatively low wages as nurses, nurse's aids, teachers, teacher's aids, etc. Still, there's already a shortage for teachers in key areas, and those shortages tend to be worse at the worst schools. Look at your state's listing of the schools with the worst standarized test scores in reading and math, and then look at the teacher openings that are available for those schools. Those schools tend to have the worst discipline problems, no family support systems, a poor sense of community, and lots of special needs children. The best teachers usually don't want to work there. If the high school in Suburbia Affluenza is doing just fine, you may want to keep in mind that those students will be increasingly paying more and more to support those other students who aren't developing any job skills, yet will still demand (and get) an ever-growing piece of the entitlements pie. A majority of the students that I inherited this year literally cannot do multiplication tables, yet they are "multiplying." Teenage pregnancy rates are down almost everywhere, except among those kids who will not actually do much to raise or provide for their kids.

Finally, you mentioned principals and their pay. Principals are paid VERY well--too well paid, in fact. Almost any decent teacher figures out very quickly that the best way to make more money is to be a principal, and since we have to take more classes anyway, probably 50% or more of senior teachers have or are close to having the necessary credentials to be a principal. Who do you hire then? Usually, they hire some of the best teachers ... who often aren't very good administrators. Have you ever heard the expression that employees usually don't quit their jobs, they quit their bosses? I worked in a variety of fields before, during, and after college, and I've never seen a more sorry group of leaders (by percentage) than school principals. A trained monkey could pass the classes to get the degree, so that's no barrier to entry. The best way to get hired as a principal is a) know someone who can help get you hired, b) come across as confident, assertive, and friendly. Neither of those do much to predict a person who's actually qualified for the job. If you find a principal who is good at team-building with the staff, holds the line with students and parents, is above reproach as far as behavior, and is at least reasonably good at communicating and problem-solving, whatever that person is getting paid, make sure that it's enough to keep them from leaving. On the other end, there are an endless supply of spineless empty-suits in principal offices who do more harm than good and could be eliminated without hurting the school.

Lest you think I'm biased for one side, be warned that you do NOT want to get me started on the poor quality and standards that we accept for teachers, or the joke that is the curriculum that leads to a diploma in a teacher-education field. If a teacher can't do multiplication tables, write coherent paragraphs, and identify a majority of U.S. states on a blank map, they probably shouldn't be teaching at any level. You'd be horrified to know how many can't do those things. You can't teach what you don't know, so I keep having students who can't multiply 6x7 without a calculator, who don't know that a sentence needs a subject and a verb, and who live in southeastern South Dakota, yet can't find Iowa or Nebraska on a blank map of the Upper Midwest. Those are true stories, by the way, at multiple schools, including one that had just been named #1 in the state based on standardized test scores.
 
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My post was factual. That's what teachers in Lincoln make. They are well paid. So are most teachers throughout Nebraska. I'm sorry that isn't the case apparently in South Dakota. I just was involved in a case with a 12 year teacher with only a bachelor's degree whose salary was $63,000, in Sarpy County. So you're getting hosed it sounds like. And for those who don't like to count the benefits when looking at an overall pay package, try working in jobs that don't have any. I pay $21,120 per year in premium for my wife and my health plan, with a $6,000 deductible, $7900 max. out of pocket cost, and no dental or vision.
 




My post was factual. That's what teachers in Lincoln make. They are well paid. So are most teachers throughout Nebraska. I'm sorry that isn't the case apparently in South Dakota. I just was involved in a case with a 12 year teacher with only a bachelor's degree whose salary was $63,000, in Sarpy County. So you're getting hosed it sounds like. And for those who don't like to count the benefits when looking at an overall pay package, try working in jobs that don't have any. I pay $21,120 per year in premium for my wife and my health plan, with a $6,000 deductible, $7900 max. out of pocket cost, and no dental or vision.

Are you implying that what I wrote was NOT factual?

You're assuming that I'm getting good benefits. You remember what happens when you "assume?" South Dakota's average salaries have been much lower for much longer, but they reflected a lower cost of living. They're now very similar to every neighboring state with the exception of Wyoming, whose pay is off the charts. Insurance and other perks used to be the best part of the compensation package for teachers, but that has fallen by the wayside in the past 10 years. At the risk of starting a political crap fight, I have to point out that Obamacare did nothing to help with this, and in many cases made it much worse. Between current and former employers, I have 4 schools who either dropped coverage altogether (in exchange for a small salary raise that wouldn't cover the difference) or cut back packages to cover only the teacher (it used to be common to get family coverage included or at a steep discount), or raise the deductible and/or switch to HSAs. If it hasn't happened already, coming soon to schools near you.

What you're also probably not considering is that teacher pay rises per year based on staying at the same school. If your teacher earning $63,000 tries to switch schools, see how much he/she makes. In my experiences looking at various openings in 6 different states, most schools will only cover 5 to 8 years of experience. If you don't find the exact place you want to be by that point, you'll probably take a pay cut. If you stay somewhere for longer than 10 years, it tends to be a significant pay cut. The net result is a lot of teachers staying in a school where they don't want to be because they don't want the pay cut of taking a different job.
 
Yeah, I've pretty much reached the end of my endurance, too. My wife wants me to change careers because we can't both be teachers as we bring home too much for the good of our own children.

Fwiw, the #1 thing that I would change in education is NOT really in education. If every kid had a healthy home with parents who were healthy and loved and provided for them, we'd put a lot of the social services, counseling, and correctional workers out of jobs.
This. My experience is parents that show up to practices and games also end up being successful in life at a higher percentage. Mainly because those same active parents ensure the kid gets their homework done. Nothing is 100% either way, but the world is littered with kids who started out life in desperately poor situations but supportive elders in the home made them great. (Not always parents, sometimes grand parents, Aunts, uncles etc.)

The above excludes the parents who force their kids to play sports and practice 4-5 hours a day. Those kids burn out.
 
This. My experience is parents that show up to practices and games also end up being successful in life at a higher percentage. Mainly because those same active parents ensure the kid gets their homework done. Nothing is 100% either way, but the world is littered with kids who started out life in desperately poor situations but supportive elders in the home made them great. (Not always parents, sometimes grand parents, Aunts, uncles etc.)

The above excludes the parents who force their kids to play sports and practice 4-5 hours a day. Those kids burn out.
While in grad school in NYC my wife (then fiance) worked at an afterschool program for low-income, at-risk elementary students. There was a cross-section of cultures represented, but it wasn't hard to spot which kids would NOT have children of their own in need of an afterschool program for low-income, at-risk elementary students. Culture matters. At the end of the year she was asking a group of her students what their summer plans were, and she heard a lot of what you'd expect: video games, BB guns, swimming, basketball, ... except for the children of Chinese and Korean immigrants. This is a word-for-word conversation with an 8-year-old Chinese-American girl:

My wife: "What will you do this summer?"
Girl: "I will go to summer school."
My wife: "What will you do on weekends?"
Girl: "I will go to Chinese school."
My wife: "Well, what will you do for fun?"
Girl [laughing]: "Ha-ha, I'm Chinese. My parents say, 'You have no time for fun.'"

That was 11 years ago. That girl is in her first year at Columbia ... on scholarship ... because she completed that summer learning program.

Culturally, stereotypically, when Chinese and Korean students get in trouble in school or struggle in school, the parents do NOT blame the teachers. They light a fire under their kid's @$$ that only academic achievement can put out. I never had a Chinese or Korean parent ever ask me why I was picking on their child, etc.
 
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Teacher pay has dramatically increased since I was a kid. The old idea that teacher pay is poor is outdated. While it depends to some extent where one lives, public sector pay is very competitive these days. In the case of teachers, I'm fine with it, and agree with the importance of the profession. My brother and daughter are teachers. I don't want to go back to when the pay was poor. But I'm not sure people understand how much it has improved.

First year teachers in the Lincoln Public Schools, with a bachelor's degree, start in the upper 40's on base salary, for a 9.5 month work year. The benefit package is incredibly generous, and beats any private sector job of which I am aware. A first year principal in Lincoln makes $130,000 plus the lucrative benefits. Assistant principals are knocking down 6 figures. My son in the private sector, 2 years older than his sister who is a teacher, works nearly double her hours, year round, and makes $15,000 less, without nearly the amount of benefits. Teachers and administrators make pretty good scratch these days.

I live in the Omaha-Council Bluffs metro area, and have had several friends who have been in the teaching profession in the last 10 years. I have meet these teachers at their second job because the teaching salary was low (starting pay much less than the upper 40's base salary you mentioned) that one job didn't cover expenses (those wonderful student loan payments).

One of the teachers did verify what you said about school administrator pay. She had told me the only way to get a good pay check in the education system was to get a Masters Degree, get out of teaching and into school administration. As for the benefit packages, I don't remember discussing benefits with any of them.

About the time on the job, the husband of his wife the teacher told of the mandatory school functions she had to attend, extra work that had to be done to prepare for the next day of school, 80 to 90 hour weeks were not uncommon. And then there is the mandatory classes the teacher has to take just to maintain certification.
 
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Generation x works very hard and long but it has had an effect on their offspring. Extended family such as grandparents are a vital part of society. Some children are going through rough times. I see it every day with my grandchildren and it breaks my heart
 
Are you implying that what I wrote was NOT factual?

Not at all. No need to be so sensitive. This thread has gotten away from football, should probably be in the Cafe, so I will not post further. Just pointing out that public school teacher pay in Nebraska has increased substantially over the years, and a lot of people just make the assumption that it is still way low. It's not. Once they get the numbers, people are shocked to see how good the salary and benefit packages are. Progress.
 

Generation x works very hard and long but it has had an effect on their offspring. Extended family such as grandparents are a vital part of society. Some children are going through rough times. I see it every day with my grandchildren and it breaks my heart
Fwiw, the kids I'm teaching are NOT coming from homes where parents are working long hours. I haven't been able to find anyone who can allow me to look at the statistics, but based on my rough calculations, close to 80+% of my students come from either a single-parent home, or a home with a parent and another adult who is a live-in girl/boyfriend. Again, it's hard to get the stats, but based on conversations with students, I'd estimate that it is well less than half of my students live in a home where any adult is working, unless you count undocumented pharmaceutical sales.

It's in the working class and middle class homes where we have parents who are rarely ever home together with each other and their children and awake. The last school where I worked fit that profile as far as the families that made up that community.
 

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