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Question for ***

During Tom's years NU was very seldom beaten at the line of scrimmage, now, every once in awhile the other team may have beaten them due to more speed. It happens. Now to today, I have read nothing that would lead me to believe Duval is a liar. If someone on the board thinks he is they should call him or Scott on this. There are always detractors, maybe they were dropped on their heads as babies.
 

satcong2 said:
During Tom's years NU was very seldom beaten at the line of scrimmage, now, every once in awhile the other team may have beaten them due to more speed. It happens. Now to today, I have read nothing that would lead me to believe Duval is a liar. If someone on the board thinks he is they should call him or Scott on this. There are always detractors, maybe they were dropped on their heads as babies.
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Perhaps the people that have never been in a weight room can be the voice of Husker Nation when questioning the integrity of the reported S&C numbers.
 
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Not to be the sensitive one in this thread, but I hate the term 'liar'. Sports has areas of embellishment at every level. Basketball teams exaggerate about height, football teams about weight, everyone does about speed, vertical, reach, whatever. I mean come on, a lie is something someone does that damages me. What's my damage when I read the roster, but walk out on the court and I'm looking down on the guy they say is 6'9"...and I'm 6'8"? It's not like I call in sick so I don't have to play, it's just fluff. If you want to get some enthusiasm, fluffing some accomplishments in the weightroom can fill that prescription. If we were saying we'd be competing with Alabama, when we had concerns with Akron, then I'm with you, that's taking the fluffing too far, but pumping guys who we want to appreciate that working hard is getting results, that's just not something I'm going to worry about. Just an opinion though, I'm fine with others feeling differently.
 
LarstheRed said:
Not to be the sensitive one in this thread, but I hate the term 'liar'. Sports has areas of embellishment at every level. Basketball teams exaggerate about height, football teams about weight, everyone does about speed, vertical, reach, whatever. I mean come on, a lie is something someone does that damages me. What's my damage when I read the roster, but walk out on the court and I'm looking down on the guy they say is 6'9"...and I'm 6'8"? It's not like I call in sick so I don't have to play, it's just fluff. If you want to get some enthusiasm, fluffing some accomplishments in the weightroom can fill that prescription. If we were saying we'd be competing with Alabama, when we had concerns with Akron, then I'm with you, that's taking the fluffing too far, but pumping guys who we want to appreciate that working hard is getting results, that's just not something I'm going to worry about. Just an opinion though, I'm fine with others feeling differently.
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Fwiw, as a coach in both football and basketball at the high school level, I have always tried to do the opposite. I want opposing basketball teams to assume my "6'3" Center" is really an inch or two shorter, so that if he's actually 6'5" it tends to be a jolt to their system. All that I have to do to make that happen is measure without shoes and socks, and tell the guys ahead of time that we'll always round down to the closest whole inch. Ditto for weights. The one exception for saying that a player's weight is more than it is would be the unusual number of small-framed 105 lb freshman football players that I've had. In a small school we need everyone to go out, and the one group of kids that is incredibly conscious about their height and weight are the little guys who haven't yet hit puberty but want to play. As long as I can help it, I'll never have a football player under 105 lb, regardless of what the scale says. Some of those kids are beasts a few years later, so I don't want to discourage any of them away by being embarrassed whenever someone looks at the program.
 
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ShortSideOption said:
I don't think anything is going to jeopardize their integrity or reputation. Here's the few reasons why it happened tho...

1) Create a lower bar for expectations
Let's not be naive and think the coaches didn't hear people claiming 10 wins. They knew they had a really tough turn around on their hands. How do we do that? Start by telling people how bad things were when they got here. "We weren't even squatting" allowed fans to see just how bad things were, and while I won't use the word "lie", there were videos out there showing we did squat, so we know that's not truthful. But that started some more of the balls rolling of "maybe we have a bigger mountain to climb than we thought."

2) Let people know the pieces are in place
With the previous regime, our strength coach would be told who needed to sit out of weights. Our administration would tell our coaches and strength staff to cut back the workouts and/or even what workouts to do. Fast forward and we put two kids in the hospital after their first attempt going thru the circuit. At Oregon when this happened, the strength coach was suspended for 3 months. But this was another opportunity for the administration to state they were completely on board. This was another chance for our staff to also state just how far away we were. Instead of holding someone making 400k responsible for what happened, the narrative was "we even scaled things back." I cringed when I heard that.

3) Psychological advantage
Now I do know of the one example I keep quoting of media guide weights being pretty off to the actual scale. But again, that doesn't matter at all. Every team in the nation does that. Bored media members writing articles about it makes me roll my eyes. But us telling the kids they are putting on certain amounts of weight, or squatting a certain amount is a way for us to get them mentally prepared for who they are going across from on Saturdays. Do you remember when the Texas guy squatted on his own a high weight, and everyone in Husker land was upset that our guy who squatted more wasn't getting the attention? Again, it was marketing to our local fans. There's a reason ESPN and others didn't give it much traction while they gave the other one a lot of run. And this higher weight "by any means necessary" with bad form, multiple spotters, and minimal ROM came at a price this year with tons of soft-tissue injuries and stunting development with season-ending issues to many of our 2018 recruiting class. The good news is we started incorporating many things that are generally thought of to help reduce the issues we had in 2019. How that works with the core principles we are putting in place for our program will remain to be seen.

All of this is a moot point if we have zero injuries in 2019 like they claim they did year 2 at UCF. I know that's what we are working towards.
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I hear you man. Thanks. What I got from you is 1&2 for the fans to feel like this regime is righting the ship. 3 for players to know the bar is set very high and we are building a world class operation - even at a short term cost (minor injuries in year one).
As the over-zealous computer-geek video-game spoiled fan that I am, I want to know it all but not get bogged down with the hair-splitting detailed debate between you guys who have lived it and have slightly different perspectives. I get lost in the weeds.
I want it presented like the roster you see in video games, Jr OG Billy Bravo 6’1” 316 OV-89 ST-93 SP-71 AG-65 EN-78 IN-96 improved 17 pets from last year. I know I am crazy but I want to have that level of knowledge without losing the data while debating technique.
 
Huskerthom said:
I am sorry. I really thought I had a simple question which you answered long ago. All the rest of this is just silliness. @Red Reign if you want to lock this thread feel free. My question was answered long ago. The rest is silly.
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If you wanted your private question answered you could have taken it offline. I appreciated the question and thought there was even more that could be discussed. Thanks.
 




Just one more little comment. Sorry Thom if I have ruffled some feathers. There are lots of simple minded people out here like me. We want to feel like we are part of the gang even if we are just geeks who pay our 20 dollars. Thanks. Signed - Woe is me.
 
MartyHuskerFan said:
If you wanted your private question answered you could have taken it offline. I appreciated the question and thought there was even more that could be discussed. Thanks.
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I thought about it and in restrospect probably should have. My hope was to generate discussion hopefully without re debating previously settled material.
MartyHuskerFan said:
Snob snob snob. Just funning you.
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LOL Just a friendly play on words to make a point
MartyHuskerFan said:
Nobody squabbling with ***. Just trying to understand some things.
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You were not. Look for those posters that were taking task at him supposedly calling the coaches liars.
MartyHuskerFan said:
Just one more little comment. Sorry Thom if I have ruffled some feathers. There are lots of simple minded people out here like me. We want to feel like we are part of the gang even if we are just geeks who pay our 20 dollars. Thanks. Signed - Woe is me.
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Pretty thick skinned. very few here get a real rise out of me. We are good.
 
Middle-aged_Ball_Coach said:
Fwiw, as a coach in both football and basketball at the high school level, I have always tried to do the opposite. I want opposing basketball teams to assume my "6'3" Center" is really an inch or two shorter, so that if he's actually 6'5" it tends to be a jolt to their system. All that I have to do to make that happen is measure without shoes and socks, and tell the guys ahead of time that we'll always round down to the closest whole inch. Ditto for weights. The one exception for saying that a player's weight is more than it is would be the unusual number of small-framed 105 lb freshman football players that I've had. In a small school we need everyone to go out, and the one group of kids that is incredibly conscious about their height and weight are the little guys who haven't yet hit puberty but want to play. As long as I can help it, I'll never have a football player under 105 lb, regardless of what the scale says. Some of those kids are beasts a few years later, so I don't want to discourage any of them away by being embarrassed whenever someone looks at the program.
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So you were that guy! I do recall Lincoln East doing exactly that back in their late 70’s heyday in basketball. It was a far more effective ‘mind screw’ than the usual.
 
MartyHuskerFan said:
I hear you man. Thanks. What I got from you is 1&2 for the fans to feel like this regime is righting the ship. 3 for players to know the bar is set very high and we are building a world class operation - even at a short term cost (minor injuries in year one).
As the over-zealous computer-geek video-game spoiled fan that I am, I want to know it all but not get bogged down with the hair-splitting detailed debate between you guys who have lived it and have slightly different perspectives. I get lost in the weeds.
I want it presented like the roster you see in video games, Jr OG Billy Bravo 6’1” 316 OV-89 ST-93 SP-71 AG-65 EN-78 IN-96 improved 17 pets from last year. I know I am crazy but I want to have that level of knowledge without losing the data while debating technique.
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I think you are pretty spot on. I would change “minor injuries” to major injuries” as we lost over 50% of our 2018 defensive recruiting class to season ending soft-tissue injuries. In my opinion you should never substitute anything for those issues, because a kid could never again be who he was when you recruited him.

1 and 2 for the fans (marketing). 3 is for the players. There’s more to it but those are the big things I’ve noticed/been told.
 



LarstheRed said:
Not to be the sensitive one in this thread, but I hate the term 'liar'.
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This is what I hate when we get on this topic. That’s where people go with it. “Well, why would they lie ***?” “You are calling the coaches liars!”

All I really try to do is point out what is factual and what isn’t. Things like a media member adding up the pounds we gained via media guide to substantiate things. A coach quoting 20 pounds of muscle gain in 2 months. Call it whatever you want, I just point out where things are off. The most recent one that has frustrated me is where media members and even fans have really ran with the “We are getting rid of soft-tissue injuries now!” And I just cringe, because we had the worst season-ending injuries in 2018 that I can remember. There’s a difference between not talking about things, and things not happening. Again, just such an excellent marketing job.

I really like the changes they made to this winter conditioning cycle tho. Things we “poo-poo’d“ for 2018 we are incorporating into this offseason. Not sure if that’s due to the injuries or not, but I’m damn glad to see it.
 
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