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Offensive Line Thoughts (Part 2)

Huskerwisdom said:
Kind of an ongoing series of semi-random thoughts on the OL here. A while back I did a look at our OL recruiting. So now I'm looking at recruiting/talent from another angle:

what we recruited:
2018 - 3 including Jurgens who was a TE
2019 - 7 including Piper who was a DT
2020 - 2
2021 - 3

I won't go through and count the full number of walk-on linemen we brought in as well, but we have a few on the 2 deep (Hixson Center/OG, Miller - OT (he was a 4 star originally, though), Boerkircher, Nouile (was a scholarship player who walked on to come back to NU after his freshman year)

Out of that number, we have 4 walk-ons who have made good and are on 2-deep plus 15 scholarship guys brought in. A number of them are gone, but we've had a lot of swings and misses and a lot of places where we took a shot, but it didn't work out.

A few other numbers:
2021 - 2 of 3 > 6-8, 1 of 3 > 6-6
2020 - 2 who are 6-6
2019 - 2 at 6-4, the rest 5 of them 6-7 and taller
2018 - 1 at 6-3, 2 at 6-4,

who played:
2018 - Jurgens 6-4
2019 - Benhart 6-9, Banks a bit 6-7, Piper 6-4
2020 - Corcoran 6-6
2021 - 1 6-9

walk-ons who played - Hixson 6-4, Nouile 6-4, Miller 6-6, Boerkircher 6-6

*********
A few thoughts:

-- We ask a lot of our OT's (or did with what we tried to run the past few years), so we spent a ton of scholarships trying to find the TE to OT conversion types who could pass block but also move to pull and block downfield, and who can knock defensive linemen off the line.

-- that really didn't really work out for us. We ended up with 1 OT who may have what it takes to play that way (Prochazka), out of the huge number we brought in

-- rules of the game reward taller offensive linemen with long arms, BUT, guys still need to be able to play the game with the bulk, power, leverage, and explosion to move defenders

-- Lot of teams (even Bama) are running with offensive lines that are shorter than what we recruited.

-- The walk-ons who've played have been shorter (to be fair Nouili has freakish long arms for his height).

-- More than ever OL play is about the right people in the right scheme, but it's pretty clear we've either been unable to find the talent to run the scheme or haven't been running a scheme that is going to work with the OL

I think in general we have the talent to do a lot of good things on the OLine, but we need to put them in positions where they can succeed...

And, maybe a bit controversial, I think we need to build toward a scheme where our few recruiting advantages can work for us. We can pull in a ton of quality walk-ons. Some who are very athletic and have good bulk -- sure, if they were 6-8, they would never be a walk-on, but can we figure out ways to use them?

I think so -- and I think some of the names we're hearing about are to figure out how to be more creative with that kind of talent. Davis (speculation at this point still) uses shorter offensive linemen all the time. Raiola was a 6-2 linemen who made it to the NFL.

Sure we want a guy like Prochazka to play LT, but if we can't figure out a way to get Corcoran to play, we have some serious flaws in our plan, IMO
Click to expand...
This was a lot of work. Thanks for doing it snd starting a thread that’s about actual football.
 

I have a question for those more knowledgeable about this than me. We don’t always use the same personnel when we were at midfield using a widespread attack compared to when we were on the 2 yard line, goal to go. Why do we keep the same offensive line in there in those different situation? Why not develop a line specifically for those short yardage situation, low to the ground pile drivers that can move anybody backwards. Like has been said above, that 6’ 9” tackle just can’t get low enough so why have them in there in those situations? I understand you would keep the same center but the other guys can be exchanged.
And don’t immediately talk about continuity and working together. What we are doing now is not working at all so the heck with continuity.
 
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TFrazier said:
In theory you are correct. However, if the taller player with longer arms is slow off the snap the longer arms will be negated.

I can only imagine how challenging it must be to find/recruit an offensive lineman to play tackle that has all the attributes needed to play the position effectively.

Also, it isn’t easy to find a player like Hutchinson either. Hutchinson could easily be a top 5 pick in the next draft. Nebraska has been looking for that type of player since Randy Gregory. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
First, you recruit the talent, or a project. But you HAVE to coach the technique if the talents in question.
There was a reason they put Corcoran at guard in the HS AA game,partly size and partly tech/dev.
Hes listed at 6'5" but is 6'4" and they had bigger guys for that game.
Trying to do too much may have hurt Corcorans dev too, Benharts as well by rushing him.
Now saying that, I expected improvements across the line,instead we see guys who passed over older guys get passed up by a guy that had been around, Sichterman.
This seems like no one was taking well to the coaching and the vet stepped in and said yea, I can do that.
As a coach, shouldnt the coach be looking for guys they can coach?
IMO, the guys can play, so that leaves only one thing
 
eyesonNU said:
I have a question for those more knowledgeable about this than me. We don’t always use the same personnel when we were at midfield using a widespread attack compared to when we were on the 2 yard line, goal to go. Why do we keep the same offensive line in there in those different situation? Why not develop a line specifically for those short yardage situation, low to the ground pile drivers that can move anybody backwards. Like has been said above, that 6’ 9” tackle just can’t get low enough so why have them in there in those situations? I understand you would keep the same center but the other guys can be exchanged.
And don’t immediately talk about continuity and working together. What we are doing now is not working at all so the heck with continuity.
Click to expand...
Scholarship number limitations, coaching limitations and practice limitations.
You can deploy a heavy set, but the five guys are still playing their usual spots and you may bring in a few extra linemen on the edges
 



eyesonNU said:
I have a question for those more knowledgeable about this than me. We don’t always use the same personnel when we were at midfield using a widespread attack compared to when we were on the 2 yard line, goal to go. Why do we keep the same offensive line in there in those different situation? Why not develop a line specifically for those short yardage situation, low to the ground pile drivers that can move anybody backwards. Like has been said above, that 6’ 9” tackle just can’t get low enough so why have them in there in those situations? I understand you would keep the same center but the other guys can be exchanged.
And don’t immediately talk about continuity and working together. What we are doing now is not working at all so the heck with continuity.
Click to expand...
It’s not a ridiculous idea. Many teams have a power or Goaline package. Usually they just add a couple offensive linemen or bigger tight ends but I’ve seen it done. You wouldn’t want to recruit totally different guys for this though. You would want to develop it with the guys already here. Getting the best run blockers and road pavers in on a short yardage deal isn’t crazy but it does let the other team know exactly what you’re doing. I actually found a thread where we are talking football and I don’t have to post a stupid gif or meme. Good conversation guys.
 
Frosty1980 said:
It’s not a ridiculous idea. Many teams have a power or Goaline package. Usually they just add a couple offensive linemen or bigger tight ends but I’ve seen it done. You wouldn’t want to recruit totally different guys for this though. You would want to develop it with the guys already here. Getting the best run blockers and road pavers in on a short yardage deal isn’t crazy but it does let the other team know exactly what you’re doing. I actually found a thread where we are talking football and I don’t have to post a stupid gif or meme. Good conversation guys.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

giphy.gif
 
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TFrazier said:
I know that Alabama can get the best of the best offensive lineman from across the country. Of the 20 listed on this ESPN roster only five are taller than 6’ 5”. The tallest is 6’ 7”.

ESPN Alabama Roster
Click to expand...

What I would find very interesting would be to take one of our OLinemen (directly out of high school) and have him inserted into the Alabama program and see what they would look like in 3 or 4 years.

Then take another of our like talented Olinemen ( again, directly out of high school) and have him inserted into our program for 3 or 4 years. Then compare.

I know......not possible, but I would venture to bet we would understand better our problems with the OL.
 
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eyesonNU said:
I have a question for those more knowledgeable about this than me. We don’t always use the same personnel when we were at midfield using a widespread attack compared to when we were on the 2 yard line, goal to go. Why do we keep the same offensive line in there in those different situation? Why not develop a line specifically for those short yardage situation, low to the ground pile drivers that can move anybody backwards. Like has been said above, that 6’ 9” tackle just can’t get low enough so why have them in there in those situations? I understand you would keep the same center but the other guys can be exchanged.
And don’t immediately talk about continuity and working together. What we are doing now is not working at all so the heck with continuity.
Click to expand...

i have been told, (would have to go back and watch some games to verify) that will shields would be replaced by the stouter chris zyzda on occasion in short yardage situation early in there career. i doubted it at the time, as i was told by a close friend of chris's but can't rule it out, expecially early in there careers. chris was a brick and milt rotated linemen much more than what has been seen in lincoln in recent memory.

you will often see teams bring in extra beef into your short yardage/goaline, everyone sees that. guy macintyre was the 49er guard back in the 80's (1984) that bill walsh brought in as a fullback that turned into the refrigerator perry mania which was started vs the 49ers in a rebuttal to the 49ers use of Guy in the NFC championship game 1984. but macintyre was not starting at the time which leads me to my long winded point. HOF anthony munoz of the bengals always comes to mind for sliding out to a TE spot and being replaced by another linemen in one of the 5 ineligible spots. munoz caught several TD over his career. most people are aware that when a linemen comes in he has to report he is lining up as eligible receiver. (not 1 of the 5 ineligible) what is often not noticed is if a player wants to return to ineligible position (munoz moving back to tackle) they have to leave game for a play as would an injured player.

this is not all exactly what you were asking about but i have always found it interesting so i thought i'd share.
 
TFrazier said:
In theory you are correct. However, if the taller player with longer arms is slow off the snap the longer arms will be negated.

I can only imagine how challenging it must be to find/recruit an offensive lineman to play tackle that has all the attributes needed to play the position effectively.

Also, it isn’t easy to find a player like Hutchinson either. Hutchinson could easily be a top 5 pick in the next draft. Nebraska has been looking for that type of player since Randy Gregory. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Benhart is about as tall as you can get and people got around him non-stop. Some of that though could be due to coaching and lack of flexibility.
 




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