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MBB GAME #33 (3/22) #8 Nebraska (23-10) vs #9 Texas A&M (20-14) (Memphis)(FedEx Forum) Tip 5:50 CT TNT GAME THREAD

LarstheRed said:
Sorry, but that's not how it works in my experience. What do we always hear when a team can't get to the basket or get any scoring in the lane? 'They need to hit some outside shots to spread the defense out and create more space to work'. They were blistering hot, and we had to come out and close the space on much better athletes. As a player the one thing you figure out really early in a game is 'who is the king, and who is the queen'. If a guy is much quicker or much stronger, he's the king. Nothing wrong with being the queen, but you have to accept you are the queen and adjust your game accordingly, specifically, you need to play off a little in order not to get beaten. It's especially true if you are on the perimeter. If a guy beats you out there, he has space to work, either to get to the basket, or to create an opportunity for a teammate when the help defense comes to him. It also creates more space for teams to attack rebounds. It's not just bigs who rebound better when a team can't pack in the lane, but wings have a ton more room to crash the boards, and guards tend to stink at blocking out.

As many have said, we are not gifted athletically. We needed the game to go a particular way to be competitive and get a win. It went a completely opposite direction from what we were hoping, and there is no adjustment Fred or anyone else could do. Maybe if we had a couple of the guys available that are hurt or suspended, maybe a healthy Keita would have made it harder for guys to get to the basket, or another guard to help pump up our perimeter defense, but we didn't have those options. They had 16 second chance points, we had 9, so that did gain them 8 points, but we had 17 fast break points to their 9, so that's basically a wash. They killed us in bench scoring because Carter and Coleman went for 23 to our 8. No matter how you want to point to other areas, our demise was absolutely caused by their shooting 56.5% from the arc.
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Without a doubt NU doesn't have the athlete's A&M does, nor do we have the quickness, so in that situation, you do what you can in terms of limiting them, which would be, contest the 3 point shot. With that, it was also clear we could not run man with A&M, so you have to try a zone defense.. that would for sure help to limit those dribble drives.

In the end, yeah, we have a long ways to go before we are at that level!
 

Huskerfan69 said:
Without a doubt NU doesn't have the athlete's A&M does, nor do we have the quickness, so in that situation, you do what you can in terms of limiting them, which would be, contest the 3 point shot. With that, it was also clear we could not run man with A&M, so you have to try a zone defense.. that would for sure help to limit those dribble drives.

In the end, yeah, we have a long ways to go before we are at that level!
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You keep saying that we should contest the 3 point shot, which we did, but we weren't playing them tight because then they can just blow by us. Now you are suggesting playing zone, which honestly takes better athletes to play well, and this is to stop a team that is bombing at a 60% clip from the outside from driving the lane, even though we don't have a rim protector and we have to spread our zone to try and pressure the perimeter. This doesn't even address the problem a zone creates with rebounding, as it's much harder to keep people off the offensive boards playing zone.

Do you see how your suggestions are actually just creating more problems? That team shooting that well from the outside made the game a mismatch.
 
LarstheRed said:
You keep saying that we should contest the 3 point shot, which we did, but we weren't playing them tight because then they can just blow by us. Now you are suggesting playing zone, which honestly takes better athletes to play well, and this is to stop a team that is bombing at a 60% clip from the outside from driving the lane, even though we don't have a rim protector and we have to spread our zone to try and pressure the perimeter. This doesn't even address the problem a zone creates with rebounding, as it's much harder to keep people off the offensive boards playing zone.

Do you see how your suggestions are actually just creating more problems? That team shooting that well from the outside made the game a mismatch.
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No, we didn't.. There were many uncontested wide open 3 point shots taken because we were out of place.

About the zone.. you are wrong.. playing zone helps with mismatches, it doesn't take better players to be able to play

To the last bold... lol, what problems am I creating with putting my opinions down in a message board forum?\

I understand that playing a zone does open the door for better outside shooters, but at some point we needed to try and stop at least 1 of the things they were doing! The dribble drive was the killer

EDIT: This isn't an audition for a potential head basketball coaching job, this is a message board. I played the game, and I coached some, too. Zone worked well for me at times. I assume since you keep telling me I am wrong, you too, played and or coached.. weird how coaches in the NCAA do different things
 
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Huskerfan69 said:
No, we didn't.. There were many uncontested wide open 3 point shots taken because we were out of place.

About the zone.. you are wrong.. playing zone helps with mismatches, it doesn't take better players to be able to play

To the last bold... lol, what problems am I creating with putting my opinions down in a message board forum?\

I understand that playing a zone does open the door for better outside shooters, but at some point we needed to try and stop at least 1 of the things they were doing! The dribble drive was the killer
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No, we actually were pressuring the ball, but they were swinging it quickly enough that we weren't able to recover. And remember, when you are not the quicker player, you don't just run wildly toward the guy with the ball. All it takes is a little fake, and he's going by you and create bigger problems. One thing no one really mentioned is how frustrated our guys were. Our shots weren't fall, and they were out of their minds, and that can really screw with your head.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really don't understand how a zone works based on your comment. This isn't junior high ball, and putting 3 to 5 defenders in the lane to stop penetration or a big man killing you, isn't even a possibility, especially when we were watching howitzers regularly going over our heads and into the net. Would a zone have worked if they were laying bricks? Sure, but that simply wasn't the case. And a zone is a brutal defense to play well, and most guys will tell you they hate it. You are covering at least 1.5 players at all times, and if you get a little too far from one, you are in trouble trying to recover if they get the ball.

They got to the lane because we had to push the defense out more. A zone can be good if you can get some traps, but that's dangerous when we aren't as quick and we can't protect the rim. A zone can also help by forcing an offense to get the ball to some of their weaker players, except they had 2 guys coming off the bench scoring 23 points, and not a one was from 3. They shot 50% from 3 in the second half, so it's not like they were cooling down much, and they only had a 6 point advantage on us in points in the paint, 44 to 38, and I think we were probably expecting them to be even better inside. What they did that we weren't able to deal with was bomb from outside.
 



LarstheRed said:
No, we actually were pressuring the ball, but they were swinging it quickly enough that we weren't able to recover. And remember, when you are not the quicker player, you don't just run wildly toward the guy with the ball. All it takes is a little fake, and he's going by you and create bigger problems. One thing no one really mentioned is how frustrated our guys were. Our shots weren't fall, and they were out of their minds, and that can really screw with your head.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you really don't understand how a zone works based on your comment. This isn't junior high ball, and putting 3 to 5 defenders in the lane to stop penetration or a big man killing you, isn't even a possibility, especially when we were watching howitzers regularly going over our heads and into the net. Would a zone have worked if they were laying bricks? Sure, but that simply wasn't the case. And a zone is a brutal defense to play well, and most guys will tell you they hate it. You are covering at least 1.5 players at all times, and if you get a little too far from one, you are in trouble trying to recover if they get the ball.

They got to the lane because we had to push the defense out more. A zone can be good if you can get some traps, but that's dangerous when we aren't as quick and we can't protect the rim. A zone can also help by forcing an offense to get the ball to some of their weaker players, except they had 2 guys coming off the bench scoring 23 points, and not a one was from 3. They shot 50% from 3 in the second half, so it's not like they were cooling down much, and they only had a 6 point advantage on us in points in the paint, 44 to 38, and I think we were probably expecting them to be even better inside. What they did that we weren't able to deal with was bomb from outside.
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They hit 13 of 24 3s. If they'd have hit their average it would have been 6 of 24. That's an extra 21 points by shooting so far above their average.
 
Huskerfan69 said:
No, we didn't.. There were many uncontested wide open 3 point shots taken because we were out of place.

About the zone.. you are wrong.. playing zone helps with mismatches, it doesn't take better players to be able to play

To the last bold... lol, what problems am I creating with putting my opinions down in a message board forum?\

I understand that playing a zone does open the door for better outside shooters, but at some point we needed to try and stop at least 1 of the things they were doing! The dribble drive was the killer

EDIT: This isn't an audition for a potential head basketball coaching job, this is a message board. I played the game, and I coached some, too. Zone worked well for me at times. I assume since you keep telling me I am wrong, you too, played and or coached.. weird how coaches in the NCAA do different things
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Really struggling with some insecurities there, bud? First; you get fired up when I say you created problems with your suggestions for changes Fred should have made. Had you actually NOT thought you needed to act a victim, you would have recognized that I explained the problems created had someone actually made those changes. My comments weren't about a message board, they were about a tactic you were suggesting that were likely going to create bigger problems.

Second; besides a couple of teams who are known for their zone defense, why isn't it used more widely? Answer: Because you almost have to build your team to play that particular defense if you are using it with any regularity. If you take average athletes and expect them to play a zone properly, you better pray the other team can't shoot from the outside. The only other times I'd think about playing it is if a team is weak in ball movement and midrange shooting. You saw a couple of opponents give us a ton of trouble because we weren't hitting from outside, our guys aren't quick enough to get to the rim, and no one was comfortable finding the gaps in the zone and shooting midrange jumpers. That is one thing I do put on Fred, I don't like him discouraging players from taking midrange jumpers, especially when we are known for long stretches of not scoring. We saw a lot of teams getting easier/closer shots all during the tournament, and a lot of those teams were advancing because of that.
 
LarstheRed said:
Really struggling with some insecurities there, bud? First; you get fired up when I say you created problems with your suggestions for changes Fred should have made. Had you actually NOT thought you needed to act a victim, you would have recognized that I explained the problems created had someone actually made those changes. My comments weren't about a message board, they were about a tactic you were suggesting that were likely going to create bigger problems.

Second; besides a couple of teams who are known for their zone defense, why isn't it used more widely? Answer: Because you almost have to build your team to play that particular defense if you are using it with any regularity. If you take average athletes and expect them to play a zone properly, you better pray the other team can't shoot from the outside. The only other times I'd think about playing it is if a team is weak in ball movement and midrange shooting. You saw a couple of opponents give us a ton of trouble because we weren't hitting from outside, our guys aren't quick enough to get to the rim, and no one was comfortable finding the gaps in the zone and shooting midrange jumpers. That is one thing I do put on Fred, I don't like him discouraging players from taking midrange jumpers, especially when we are known for long stretches of not scoring. We saw a lot of teams getting easier/closer shots all during the tournament, and a lot of those teams were advancing because of that.
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decided to come back and respond to the same post twice? lol

Sounds like maybe you are fired up. it's ok, you can relax a bit. To the bold.. I knew what you meant, I was being a smartarse...

EDIT: Nebraska runs a zone now and then.. Hell, Houston ran a zone last night.. ok, ok.. it was a very short time, but that coach must not have the knowledge to know better.
 
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Huskerfan69 said:
decided to come back and respond to the same post twice? lol

Sounds like maybe you are fired up. it's ok, you can relax a bit. To the bold.. I knew what you meant, I was being a smartarse...
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How can I be fired up, I'm not the one professing my extensive experience as a player and coach. Honestly, I don't think you did know, and I think you now realize that you look pretty foolish and are scrambling reduce how foolish you came across.
 




LarstheRed said:
How can I be fired up, I'm not the one professing my extensive experience as a player and coach. Honestly, I don't think you did know, and I think you now realize that you look pretty foolish and are scrambling reduce how foolish you came across.
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Now I see the issue.. Why does someone need to look foolish in your eyes? I don't think anyone is foolish if by chance they are wrong. This is a game, this isn't life and death. Chill out a bit.
 
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Huskerfan69 said:
Now I see the issue.. Why does someone need to look foolish in your eyes? I don't think anyone is foolish if by chance they are wrong. This is a game, this isn't life and death. Chill out a bit.
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You made several comments in this forum that you are certainly entitled to, but aren't based in fact, and I was pretty fundamental in pointing out the flaws I saw in your comments. Sorry if you feel only one poster here is allowed to have an opinion of a 'game'. Sorry if I hurt your feelings or embarrassed you, this isn't about needing someone to look foolish. When you dig in and double down on an opinion that has numerous holes shot in it, that kind of leads to appearing foolish. That's apparently your choice, it's certainly not my need.
 
LarstheRed said:
You made several comments in this forum that you are certainly entitled to, but aren't based in fact, and I was pretty fundamental in pointing out the flaws I saw in your comments. Sorry if you feel only one poster here is allowed to have an opinion of a 'game'. Sorry if I hurt your feelings or embarrassed you, this isn't about needing someone to look foolish. When you dig in and double down on an opinion that has numerous holes shot in it, that kind of leads to appearing foolish. That's apparently your choice, it's certainly not my need.
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You win LarsTheRed! I feel sooo foolish. The Houston coach does, too, I am sure. I mean, he ran a zone last night.
 




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