Frost needs his guys/We are young/Wisconsin... ugh

[The Big Red Lebowski]

Based on these comments and others on the call-in show, there is still some disconnect between the coaches and "some" of the players. We still have a few deadbeats who can't get with the program. Not sure if it should be stated publicly, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Saying it to the press doesn't feel like a desperate measure to get the team's attention as much as it feels like Frost making excuses. I get the inclination though. He's frustrated.

 

[Bleed Red]

I have to envy the situation at Nebraska where you can discard the previous upperclassmen on a whim and not worry about losses because you have no accountability to care for the young adults that committed to the university under a different head coach. I mean, from a coaching point of view, it is awesome. And to get paid million a year to do that. It doesn't get any better than that!!!

Wow, the transfer portal must be new to you. Who said there was "discard" with "no accountability".

 

[NUinID]

I have to envy the situation at Nebraska where you can discard the previous upperclassmen on a whim and not worry about losses because you have no accountability to care for the young adults that committed to the university under a different head coach. I mean, from a coaching point of view, it is awesome. And to get paid million a year to do that. It doesn't get any better than that!!!

Man you say some off the wall stuff.

 

[David3464]

I have said it before and I will say it again here...My hope is that Frost will play the 1's against Indiana, Purdue, and Maryland to try to get to 6 wins. I can almost guarantee we will get beat by Wiscy and Iowa, so I would use the Freshman that have 4 games vs those 2 (plus Bowl game) and any other young players. Commit to them learning against 2 of the most physical and well-coached fundamental teams so the young players can see/feel first-hand how they stack up, and what they need to improve to get to that level. Goal this year is to learn and try to get to 6-7 wins. That is all.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Many good points, but i don't really understand how a team is supposed to improve from one year to the next if they are forced to replace the good seniors with inexperienced frosh and soph. I think the depth and issues with being young stem from the lack of quality depth inherited. Yes, a staff can have massive player turnover and remake the roster, but you don't remake it with juniors and seniors. There is no free agency.
Frost knows he has time and needs to build for the future, not this year. I'm sure the growth is slower than they expected and for sure slower than hoped, but as you say, winning 6 or winning 8 really doesn't matter in the end. Preserving the redshirts is what will pay dividends. Hopefully in 2021 or 2022 NU is no longer young and thin.

Agree... but let's take a look just offensively:

Lost Stanley Morgan, replaced with Kanawai Noa. Is that a "what Frost inherited" problem? Why did our 2018 Nebraska WR recruiting class have 6 guys in it, 1 of which never made it to campus (Watt), 3 of which aren't even on the team anymore (McGriff, Hunt, LeGrone), and the other 2 are seniors who have combined for 4 receptions this year. that's probably why the WRs look so bad this year. Tack on we didn't take a JUCO WR in 2019 and are redshirting our only WRs from that class, i'm not really sure that's a lack of talent problem. More a lack of identification problem.

We lose Tanner Farmer and replace him with Desmond Bland. Doesn't make it. Now you are forced to play Jurgens or Farniok.

We lose Ozigbo and your RBs from 2018 are Washington, Bell, and Jones. Bell leaves, Washington (I won't go there), and Jones can't get on the field to save his life. 2019 brings us Mills who is basically playing out of necessity right now, Thompkins who hurt his knee for a third straight year, and Johnson. Robinson really is the bell cow for our offense and that's not good from a 5'7 guy.

I guess what i'm getting at.... is tons of people play inexperienced freshmen and sophomores. Tack on the fact guys like Matt Farniok, Adrian Martinez, Mo Barry, all look worse this year, and not only is it a identification and recruiting issue, but is there also some lack of development? Arguably our best development is by a position group that had a change in coaches.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Excellent points ***....Excellent.

One question though. What seems to be the reluctance to get guys some live fire? I see "save a redshirt" a lot. Don't they have 4 games to play in and still save the shirt? Seems to me that real life game experience will pay more dividend for the future?

What do we have lose really?

I'm with you. Before the season, they circle games they think they will be able to use guys in. Things are fluid because injuries happen, and development happens (both ways good and bad), but really, since we are 4-3 it's not like we go yanking redshirts. Guys like Ethan Piper should start getting thrown in if we get up on Indiana. But guys like Johnson and others we have to be careful to not burn their redshirt unnecessarily.

Live reps are the best reps for sure.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Imo, he should have played the younger players this year. Now we're going to struggle next year as well with the young players learning.

If this was always a 6-8 win team, get the young kids learning now so next year we're much better.

That's really the crux of it... if you are going to burn a Benhart redshirt, play him right away and have Farniok at guard from the jump. The season is over half done so you can't change philosophy now. That said, Frost nor anyone here has a crystal ball, he truly thought we would be dangerous as did I. But you're too deep right now to "waste" a year. If Benhart burns his redshirt for 5 games that would be a disservice to the kid.

 

[ShortSideOption]

*** I am not sure I am following you. You have 3 segments to your post.

1. You are basically tired of people telling us that Frost needs his players, even Frost is saying it and you don't like it. OK You don't think that should be an excuse.

2. We are Young, Injured and lack depth. I agree on all those things.

3. Wisconsin runs the 3-4 and runs it very well and Nebraska running the 3-4 is not the problem. I agree.

So in point 1 you are saying not having your guys is not an excuse because 64% of the roster are his guys.
In point 2 the fact that they are young, injured and lack depth is an excuse.

Basically can't they both be an excuse. Can't he need more of his guys that are older and more experienced plus more of his guys to build depth. I mean he is turning the roster over, but it is a young roster with a lot of potential as you have said. But it is still young.

Losing those those 5 seniors hurts this team more than anyone ever thought. The skill was lost, but the leadership isn't there.

I think Frost and Co took a calculated risk to not play a lot of Freshman and look to the future. I think they thought they had enough to be sitting at 6-1 right now or maybe 5-2. The O-line hasn't jelled, Mills has not lived up to expectations, and Martinez has struggled. Couple that with a few key injuries and you have problems. They could have taken some lumps and got experience for some of these guys and still be sitting 4-3. PJ Fleck took lumps for a year and a half with his young team and gained some experience. Now you see the fruit of taking those lumps.

1) Frost saying we "gotta recruit better players to run our schemes" really is tough for me. For a coach and staff that believe in a mental edge over many things, a player reading that would have a tough time remaining positive.

2) I knew I could get you to agree on one of these!!!!

3) Ok, 2 things!

I absolutely think both things could be true. As I noted in a post above, Frost also can't swing and miss on an entire position group his first recruiting class or try to replace a key part of the OL with someone that doesn't qualify.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Was going to write something similar to your 3rd paragraph. At UCF, “his guys” were a guy faster than the guy he lined up against, in most cases. Wandale is definitely a “his guy.” It will be really hard to fill the roster with those types. We see what happens when we don’t.

Right, and after two recruiting cycles, the focal point of your offense is a 5'7 true freshman at RB. It's a tough spot, we will get there, but a lot of this is self-inflicted.

 

[ShortSideOption]

This feels like an unforced error on Frost's part. IMO, it's never going to be useful or motivating for your current players to hear their coach tell the press he needs "better" players, even if it's true.

He should have left it at: "We know our schemes on both sides work, they've worked for a long time. We gotta get better at them."

That's kind of what i'm getting at, and look, if I had a microphone in my face as often as Frost does i'd slip up from time to time. But the better phrase as you stated would have been "we need more time in them, we are young, and have our older guys trying to learn our system from something completely different." Not to pander too much to the fragile college athlete, but you could even go as far as to say "really wish guys like Jaimes, Farniok, Barry, Jackson, Bootle, would have been in our system even longer, they could be scary good with a couple more years."

That's nitpicking, but you get what i'm saying. Not saying he has to suck up to guys, but the way it came off was kind of odd to me.

 

[Deleted member 3570]

When I hear Frost say he needs to recruit his guys or I hear a fan say that, I don't necessarily think it means specifically to get guys that Frost's staff recruited. Clearly there are plenty there. For me, the real meaning of that statement is the recruitment over several years that will eventually lead to depth and experience, similar to what Wisconsin does and what we used to do. I believe that's exactly why he asked for a 7 year deal and I think we will eventually see the fruits of that labor. It's also not so much whether a guy is 3 star, 4 star, etc. It's about recruiting guys that can actually master their roles in his system.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Captkenny]

Many good points, but i don't really understand how a team is supposed to improve from one year to the next if they are forced to replace the good seniors with inexperienced frosh and soph. I think the depth and issues with being young stem from the lack of quality depth inherited. Yes, a staff can have massive player turnover and remake the roster, but you don't remake it with juniors and seniors. There is no free agency.
Frost knows he has time and needs to build for the future, not this year. I'm sure the growth is slower than they expected and for sure slower than hoped, but as you say, winning 6 or winning 8 really doesn't matter in the end. Preserving the redshirts is what will pay dividends. Hopefully in 2021 or 2022 NU is no longer young and thin.

Well stated. Fans want immediate results and instant gratification.

Frost would love to give those things to the fans if he can. But his highest priority is turning the program around. Redshirting freshmen so they can develop and be more prepared for B1G football when they do play is a long term focus. Perhaps playing them early would have made a difference in a game or two. But losses in year 2 are much more acceptable than they would be in year 4 or 5.

I’m fine with SF coaching for the long term rather than squeaking out a win or two more “wasting” redshirts.

 

[ramsker]

If Jaimes is the starter at tackle next year . . . I'll be really worried. He and Farniok just look abysmal at tackle and neither seems to be getting better in any way.

 

[N2FL]

This feels like an unforced error on Frost's part. IMO, it's never going to be useful or motivating for your current players to hear their coach tell the press he needs "better" players, even if it's true.

He should have left it at: "We know our schemes on both sides work, they've worked for a long time. We gotta get better at them."

To be fair, several coaches have openly commented these last two years about how they tell current players that they're going on the road to recruit players to take their jobs (or something to that effect). They're trying to build a culture of competition. Kids know the coaches are going to add talent and give them the chance to complete and take a starting job. It's current players job to continue to develop and work to keep their job. Pete Carroll built that culture at USC, Nick Saban does that at Alabama. I like it, personally. Set the tone.

 

[huskrthill]

I'd suggest that there may be some long-term roster management efforts at work here. You never know exactly what will happen in the future, but you can make educated assumptions about positions and likely future needs. I haven't analyzed it, but it's possible there are some guys that are close to being ready to play, but they're not head and shoulders better than older players in front of them. Do you burn a redshirt to get similar results? The trade off is gaining experience, but at what cost to the program in 2, 3, 4 years?

Again, I don't know exactly what the thought process is at each position, but Frost is trying to build a program for long-term success. It's tough to be patient, but that might be what we need right now.

That being said, you have to wonder why some things aren't coming together a little better than they are. I don't have all the answers.