• You do not need to register if you are not going to pay the yearly fee to post. If you register please click here or log in go to "settings" then "my account" then "User Upgrades" and you can renew.

Divisionless Conferences?

Red October

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
If we don't care about other historical aspects of college football, why do we care about things like traditional rivalries? Break it all up and put it back together in the image of every other sport. People will complain at first, but they'll get over it. Nebraska got over not playing Oklahoma every year right? And we all got over changing conferences, right? If you're gonna do it, just rip the band-aid off and start over.

I agree with you on conference sizes. I'd also be fine with conferences going to 16-20 teams and being more of a loose affiliation between divisions (similar to the smaller conferences of the past). Play the 7-8-9 other teams in your division, and the champions of each side meet in a game at the end of the regular season as a de facto play-in game for the playoff.
Starting over would make college ball look like a minor league for the NFL. Its inevitable considering the influence the NFL has in sports.
 

Hville

Junior Varsity
2 Year Member
Starting over would make college ball look like a minor league for the NFL. Its inevitable considering the influence the NFL has in sports.
This is a pretty accurate statement. As a whole.....college football is still trying to be its own thing. Its part of the fan base that is calling for change and in so many cases its the fans trying to model it after the NFL. The fans themselves can't even come up with a consensus that they want. On this site alone we have had at least 7 different scenarios thrown out on how a playoff should be structured and most of them create bigger problems than what we have right now. At least now we have a playoff that gets 4 of the top teams into it. Its arguable whether a close to the top team gets missed and that will always be there.

What shouldn't be arguable is a system that rewards a 8-4 team for winning their weak division/conference while not even measuring what they did in the non-conference schedule. That is what automatic bids do. Its stupid to automatically give 5 of the 10 conferences automatic bids into a tournament where they might have lost their non-conference games they played against other conferences.
 

Red October

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
This is a pretty accurate statement. As a whole.....college football is still trying to be its own thing. Its part of the fan base that is calling for change and in so many cases its the fans trying to model it after the NFL. The fans themselves can't even come up with a consensus that they want. On this site alone we have had at least 7 different scenarios thrown out on how a playoff should be structured and most of them create bigger problems than what we have right now. At least now we have a playoff that gets 4 of the top teams into it. Its arguable whether a close to the top team gets missed and that will always be there.

What shouldn't be arguable is a system that rewards a 8-4 team for winning their weak division/conference while not even measuring what they did in the non-conference schedule. That is what automatic bids do. Its stupid to automatically give 5 of the 10 conferences automatic bids into a tournament where they might have lost their non-conference games they played against other conferences.
The NFL does reward mediocrity there is no doubt, just make the playoffs, anything can happen. My issue with the system we have now, is that it still uses the polls which have been in dispute since the first kickoff way back when.
 

cthusker

You talken to me?
5 Year Member
Having the 2 teams with the best conference record playing for the conference championship could get real old. How many times do fans in the Big 12 really want to see OU versus Texass in that game? How many times do BIG fans want to see Michigan playing Ohio State in the CCG? It's very possible to have Michigan playing OSU back to back since it's the last game on their schedules.. at least right now!

I enjoy the divisional play but to each their own..........
 
There is an extremely strong argument that the SEC has taken advantage of scheduling to put their schools in position to be in the playoff more often than other conferences.
I vaguely was aware that they played a weak non-conference schedule, but it wasn't until around Thanksgiving that I started comparing the B1G versus the SEC in every way imaginable, and I was shocked by how bad it is. The only way that an SEC team is going to lose a non-conference game is if they play an early game on a neutral site somewhere relatively close to home. Take a few minutes and go through the SEC schedules from this past year (and the ACC while you're at it) and honestly identify how many of the SEC opponents had any realistic hope of winning. Even Missouri scheduling Illinois was about as close to "living on the edge" as the SEC ever cares to get. Missouri will replace that game with Ball State as soon as possible.
In a perfect world they'd be 10.
Or 18-20. We're not going backwards towards smaller conferences, but it's highly likely that we'll expand our way into the equivalent by having conferences of 18 or more. Once they get that big, each division can function as its own mini-conference. It's not hard to imagine something close to the bulk of a reincarnated Big 8 making up the majority of the B1G West in the relatively near future. If all the teams in that division play each other, the championship game serves as a de facto pre-first round playoff game. Where's the downside?
Nebraska got over not playing Oklahoma every year right?
Honestly, no, I didn't. Did you? It bothered me in '98 and '99, and it has really bothered me for the past 8 years that we can't even have the chance to play them in the CCG. Based on what I hear from fellow Husker fans, I'm not in some miniscule minority.
And we all got over changing conferences, right?
Again, nope, not quite. Look at how many posts (including mine) are the equivalent of trying to put the Humpty Dumpty Big 8 back together again?
If you're gonna do it, just rip the band-aid off and start over.
I know your comment is well intended, but having lived where I've lived, I feel obligated to say this: That is the rationale that has led to more human misery in the past 100+ years than any other. You just summarized the rallying cry of every radical, murderous regime of the past century plus. A truly wise stoic view of the world never loses sight of one simple truth: We can always make this worse.
I agree with you on conference sizes. I'd also be fine with conferences going to 16-20 teams and being more of a loose affiliation between divisions (similar to the smaller conferences of the past). Play the 7-8-9 other teams in your division, and the champions of each side meet in a game at the end of the regular season as a de facto play-in game for the playoff.
Yes, and Amen! Reference what I wrote above: mega-conferences can serve as de facto mini-conferences if each division has to play round robin on its side, and cross-divisional games are minimized.
Nebraska has no traditions left that involve other programs. I think that clouds our vision sometimes when we say "if we dont care about that stuff anymore"...
I think that it clouds our vision, but in a cynical way: "We tore down our traditions, so let's tear down yours!" We lost something special when we stopped playing Oklahoma every year, and we lost sometime more when we stopped playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Missouri every year. You don't have to call for radical change or reactionary roll-backs to acknowledge that. We don't need to force that on others. Beating Iowa like a rented mule will eventually be salve to our wounds.
Its inevitable considering the influence the NFL has in sports.
I REALLY, really question this. I don't know how it's possible to gauge this, but the NFL is losing die-hard fans based on what I anecdotally see in a fairly (bizarrely) diverse cross-section of my friends and acquaintances, and college football is uniquely poised to pick up a lot of that slack, if the cards fall right. I could say a lot more about this, but I'm already going to get grief from the word-counters analyzing this post, but I'll say more, if anyone cares.
How many times do fans in the Big 12 really want to see OU versus Texass in that game?
Our leaving the B1G did more than anything else to lead to that. The Big 12 existed in its original form from '96 through 2010, and in those years, OK and TX were the two best teams about 25-33% of the time, depending on how you ranked them. Texas hasn't been one of the 2 best teams in Big 12 since Nebraska left until this year. They SHOULD be based on recruiting advantages, alumni support, facilities, etc., but they haven't been.
How many times do BIG fans want to see Michigan playing Ohio State in the CCG? It's very possible to have Michigan playing OSU back to back since it's the last game on their schedules.. at least right now!
It was the hope of a Michigan vs Ohio State rematch in the B1G championship game that led to the bizarre division of the B1G into Leaders and Legends when Nebraska first joined the conference. How many times did they meet in the championship game between 2011 and 2014? The answer, of course, is zero. It wasn't until 2016 that we would honestly say that Michigan and OSU were the two best teams, and this past year was only the 2nd time.
 
Last edited:

huskrthill

Crap
10 Year Member
I vaguely was aware that they played a weak non-conference schedule, but it wasn't until around Thanksgiving that I started comparing the B1G versus the SEC in every way imaginable, and I was shocked by how bad it is. The only way that an SEC team is going to lose a non-conference game is if they play an early game on a neutral site somewhere relatively close to home. Take a few minutes and go through the SEC schedules from this past year (and the ACC while you're at it) and honestly identify how many of the SEC opponents had any realistic hope of winning. Even Missouri scheduling Illinois was about as close to "living on the edge" as the SEC ever cares to get. Missouri will replace that game with Ball State as soon as possible.

Or 18-20. We're not going backwards towards smaller conferences, but it's highly likely that we'll expand our way into the equivalent by having conferences of 18 or more. Once they get that big, each division can function as its own mini-conference. It's not hard to imagine something close to the bulk of a reincarnated Big 8 making up the majority of the B1G West in the relatively near future. If all the teams in that division play each other, the championship game serves as a de facto pre-first round playoff game. Where's the downside?

Honestly, no, I didn't. Did you? It bothered me in '98 and '99, and it has really bothered me for the past 8 years that we can't even have the chance to play them in the CCG. Based on what I hear from fellow Husker fans, I'm not in some miniscule minority.

Again, nope, not quite. Look at how many posts (including mine) are the equivalent of trying to put the Humpty Dumpty Big 8 back together again?

I know your comment is well intended, but having lived where I've lived, I feel obligated to say this: That is the rationale that has led to more human misery in the past 100+ years than any other. You just summarized the rallying cry of every radical, murderous regime of the past century plus. A truly wise stoic view of the world never loses sight of one simple truth: We can always make this worse.

Yes, and Amen! Reference what I wrote above: mega-conferences can serve as de facto mini-conferences if each division has to play round robin on its side, and cross-divisional games are minimized.

I think that it clouds our vision, but in a cynical way: "We tore down our traditions, so let's tear down yours!" We lost something special when we stopped playing Oklahoma every year, and we lost sometime more when we stopped playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Missouri every year. You don't have to call for radical change or reactionary roll-backs to acknowledge that. We don't need to force that on others. Beating Iowa like a rented mule will eventually be salve to our wounds.

I REALLY, really question this. I don't know how it's possible to gauge this, but the NFL is losing die-hard fans based on what I anecdotally see in a fairly (bizarrely) diverse cross-section of my friends and acquaintances, and college football is uniquely poised to pick up a lot of that slack, if the cards fall right. I could say a lot more about this, but I'm already going to get grief from the word-counters analyzing this post, but I'll say more, if anyone cares.

Our leaving the B1G did more than anything else to lead to that. The Big 12 existed in its original form from '96 through 2010, and in those years, OK and TX were the two best teams about 25-33% of the time, depending on how your ranked them. Texas hasn't been one of the 2 best teams in Big 12 since Nebraska left until this year. They SHOULD be based on recruiting advantages, alumni support, facilities, etc., but they haven't been.

It was the hope of a Michigan vs Ohio State rematch in the B1G championship game that led to the bizarre division of the B1G into Leaders and Legends when Nebraska first joined the conference. How many times did they meet in the championship game between 2011 and 2014? The answer, of course, is zero. It wasn't until 2016 that we would honestly say that Michigan and OSU were the two best teams, and this past year was only the 2nd time.
Man, you read way too much into my post, made a lot of assumptions, and missed the sarcasm badly.
 

huskrthill

Crap
10 Year Member
So that's all on me? You have no responsibility in that? How about clarifying something instead of casting blame? At the very least, enlighten me.
If you know my history at all, I am very much a traditionalist. I didn't like how the Big 12 came about (thought the Big 8 had a stronger hand but chose not to play it), I haven't liked the changes to the bowl system, I don't like the playoffs, and I don't care for the continued meddling to make FBS football like every other sport.

And yes, comparing an offhand comment on a sports message board to murderous regimes is all on you. That's REALLY over the top.
 

HUSKER HOT SAUCE

Music Soothes My Soul
5 Year Member
I didn't like how the Big 12 came about (thought the Big 8 had a stronger hand but chose not to play it), I haven't liked the changes to the bowl system, I don't like the playoffs, and I don't care for the continued meddling to make FBS football like every other sport.
I think if you took a poll on HM or even for college football fans in general, a majority of us would agree with your post, especially the bold with Husker fans and the old Big 8 fans. The Big 12 really sucked and helped usher in a craptastic era for college football.
 
If you know my history at all, I am very much a traditionalist. I didn't like how the Big 12 came about (thought the Big 8 had a stronger hand but chose not to play it), I haven't liked the changes to the bowl system, I don't like the playoffs, and I don't care for the continued meddling to make FBS football like every other sport.

And yes, comparing an offhand comment on a sports message board to murderous regimes is all on you. That's REALLY over the top.
So we agree on most things related to the Big 8/12, but my pointing out that your comment was justification for a whole lot of evil crap was too much for you. Fine, I'll own that part. I stand by what I stressed, though: We can always make things worse.

And, no, I'm not familiar with your history. You're a guy on the message board with the Fonz as your picture. I haven't bothered to research your deeper thoughts on history, etc.
 

solesrfr

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Theoretically not a bad idea. The trick of course is keeping everyone together who wants to stay together.

The idea of 12-14 team conferences WITHOUT divisions and a conference title game pitting the winners against each other is silly. I already hate the idea of conferences exceeding 12. In a perfect world they'd be 10.

This idea that everything has to be exactly equal from conference to conference and division to division like hville has been insisting is entirely pointless and impossible.
I like 10, can live with 12. I get what is trying to be accomplished by this proposal of no divisions but to accomplish that all teams must play each other. It is just going back in time to the Big8 days except adding some more teams and a championship game. You are dead on about structuring divisions to be equal, equality is fluid and impossible to predict.

What made college football so great is the regional aspect to it. From the first games and with its spread through the country, localization evolved from transportation restrictions to some degree. Humans being humans rivalries are born and the amazing spectacle that is college game day is born. It is a ritual for 150 years, unfortunately money and greed killed it.

So yeah, 10 regional teams where everyone plays everyone with a CCG. Maybe NU can renew a yearly game with Kansas.



C
 

solesrfr

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
If we don't care about other historical aspects of college football, why do we care about things like traditional rivalries? Break it all up and put it back together in the image of every other sport. People will complain at first, but they'll get over it. Nebraska got over not playing Oklahoma every year right? And we all got over changing conferences, right? If you're gonna do it, just rip the band-aid off and start over.

I agree with you on conference sizes. I'd also be fine with conferences going to 16-20 teams and being more of a loose affiliation between divisions (similar to the smaller conferences of the past). Play the 7-8-9 other teams in your division, and the champions of each side meet in a game at the end of the regular season as a de facto play-in game for the playoff.

You are right, it is already dead and has been for longer than many realize. The sooner everyone realizes the better.



C
 

solesrfr

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
I think as one of the traditional "big boys" nebraska...and therefore nebraska fans....have gone through more change than most. Expanded conference that changed a traditional rivalry to changing conferences entirely...Nebraska has no traditions left that involve other programs. I think that clouds our vision sometimes when we say "if we dont care about that stuff anymore"...

Only a few traditional rivalries have died really. Nu-ou (it was more important to one than the other). Texas & A&M...but texas still has ou. Missou-kansas. Wjat other great traditional rivalries have died? I'm sure I'm missing a couple. But overall college football is still big on tradition.

The bowls...we could argue that all day.
NU lost all of its historical rivalries when it left the Big12. Now the fans are like a ship lost in the fog.



C
 

Hville

Junior Varsity
2 Year Member
The NFL does reward mediocrity there is no doubt, just make the playoffs, anything can happen. My issue with the system we have now, is that it still uses the polls which have been in dispute since the first kickoff way back when.
Actually they don't use the polls.
 
Top