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2018 PF Chang offered - SDSU, SLCC, Mizzou

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Well, considering you are arguing with the person leading the charge that people wanting to keep Riley so his recruiting class stayed in tact were "morons", your comparison seems a bit foolish considering we've already decided to keep Miles. But i'll let that pretty bad analogy slide since I certainly didn't suggest we give Miles money to appease high school seniors. He's either your coach and you back him, or he isn't. And Moos still hasn't made a decision on that, which is why Hunter left which then made Johnson leave. I fail to see how this isn't setting us back. Your make believe story of "we just get a strong coach" which we've failed to do for quite some time and then that coach we have had trouble getting for years "immediately attracts a couple strong recruits" which we've basically never been able to do either to say "how would that be setting us back" is tough for me to realistically think would happen. Of course, I understand why someone trying to make an argument would speak in such hyperbole, but I just can't get on board with it.
The analogy points out that not giving Riley a big endorsement during the season, which a contract extension is supposed to reflect regarding Miles, didn’t prohibit us from having a solid recruiting class. Early signing is going to be an issue because schools will have to address releasing kids if they sign in November and there is a coaching change in March. The notion that somehow locks us out of, or into talent is folly.

As for my make believe story, we’ve had dog crap hires on the football side for 20 years, but at this point it appears we’ve hit a near perfect hire. I see no reason we can’t find someone who can come close to bringing that enthusiasm to the basketball team. There are people that can be our Scott Frost for the basketball program, and it’s going to be up to Moos to find them and create that relationship.

I’m actually surprised that you and so many others believe we were limited to just 2 options. Fire him, or extend him. Moos doesn’t see a body of work that merits an extension, so he’s not handing out millions just for warm fuzzies. He didn’t have a candidate who would meet the standards he wanted who was willing to take the position, so he didn’t toss up a Hail Mary at just anyone. So what did his actions say to Miles? Show me something. You are guaranteed 4.2 million in the bank, so show me you deserve that to jump to 8 to 10 million.

Does anyone here think Miles has proven he’s worth 10 million? Does anyone have faith he can create a program that is consistent in reaching 20+ wins and NCAA invites? Is there a top coaching candidate out there right now that you feel we have a strong enough relationship with to bring into the program? If all of these are ‘no’ today, then you don’t bury a program with additional debt in the ‘hope’ of improving our ability to recruit. If you hand Miles that extension and he flops again, how many of those recruits stick around? And if you fire Miles after a flop, do you refuse to give releases to keep those early signees?

If the obvious is true, and Moos doesn’t have faith in Miles, and he doesn’t have a candidate he wants at the moment, then there is no other option than what he’s doing. A recruiting class isn’t worth it. Miles has had plenty of stability leading up to this year and hasn’t been able to hold together rosters or staff, so why is it suddenly the blame for everything?
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Say you give miles a 3 year extension and he gets a couple nice recruits. Then he predictably flops next year and you fire him. Those recruits stand a good chance of doing just like Johnson did this year when "his" coach bolted and they ask for their release. What's the difference really?

Hunter probably takes that UCONN job either way...we'll probably never know for sure though. But even with an extension he knows the gauntlet is being layed down behind the scenes so he knows there is little job security.
I guess my concern is, the only scenario i've hard that it's a good idea for us to not extend Miles is for when he he "predictably flops" or has a bad year. So did we not set th program back a year retaining a guy we are expecting to fail? Further, we then start the rebuilding year in 2019-2020 instead of this year with a new coach that's allowed to recruit.

I guess I would rather see Miles fail with all the tools he needs to succeed. Our AD isn't providing that, so we are basically just in a holding pattern until firing.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
The analogy points out that not giving Riley a big endorsement during the season, which a contract extension is supposed to reflect regarding Miles, didn’t prohibit us from having a solid recruiting class. Early signing is going to be an issue because schools will have to address releasing kids if they sign in November and there is a coaching change in March. The notion that somehow locks us out of, or into talent is folly.

As for my make believe story, we’ve had dog crap hires on the football side for 20 years, but at this point it appears we’ve hit a near perfect hire. I see no reason we can’t find someone who can come close to bringing that enthusiasm to the basketball team. There are people that can be our Scott Frost for the basketball program, and it’s going to be up to Moos to find them and create that relationship.

I’m actually surprised that you and so many others believe we were limited to just 2 options. Fire him, or extend him. Moos doesn’t see a body of work that merits an extension, so he’s not handing out millions just for warm fuzzies. He didn’t have a candidate who would meet the standards he wanted who was willing to take the position, so he didn’t toss up a Hail Mary at just anyone. So what did his actions say to Miles? Show me something. You are guaranteed 4.2 million in the bank, so show me you deserve that to jump to 8 to 10 million.

Does anyone here think Miles has proven he’s worth 10 million? Does anyone have faith he can create a program that is consistent in reaching 20+ wins and NCAA invites? Is there a top coaching candidate out there right now that you feel we have a strong enough relationship with to bring into the program? If all of these are ‘no’ today, then you don’t bury a program with additional debt in the ‘hope’ of improving our ability to recruit. If you hand Miles that extension and he flops again, how many of those recruits stick around? And if you fire Miles after a flop, do you refuse to give releases to keep those early signees?

If the obvious is true, and Moos doesn’t have faith in Miles, and he doesn’t have a candidate he wants at the moment, then there is no other option than what he’s doing. A recruiting class isn’t worth it. Miles has had plenty of stability leading up to this year and hasn’t been able to hold together rosters or staff, so why is it suddenly the blame for everything?
First paragraph, we had a solid recruiting class because we were able to bring in Frost before the first signing period. We were in the 90s for team ranking when he took over, and had time to flip guys before they could sign. We don't have that with basketball. That's before we talk about actually having football tradition and bringing in a coach like Frost.

Agree on the second, but why are they going to be available next year and not this year? If we didn't have one this year, what makes us think there will be one next year?

On the third, that philosophy is basically making it so if Miles gets the job done, we are back to the bottom of the barrel in the 2019-2020 season due to not being able to recruit and most likely losing Palmer, Copeland, and/or Roby, if they aren't gone already with no one to come in and help until the transfer market.

To the fourth, it's clear no one thinks that, which is why you have to make the move to fire if you truly don't believe in him to extend him. Otherwise you are burying us for a couple years. There were Altman rumors flying around like wildfire, was that just fluff or does he want to wait another year? We are putting all our eggs in a basket that wasn't available this year, and hoping it will be next year? Ballsy.

Myself and others are not saying extend Miles to keep a recruiting class, which is what everyone is apparently reading. We are saying if you keep Miles and don't extend him, you set us back at minimum two years because we will have no one coming in to help us in 2019-2020 if he does well, or you are starting over with a new coach one year later, delaying the rebuild. If you fire him and bring in a new coach, the rebuilding process starts now. If you keep Miles and extend him, he can actually recruit to help his cause and falls on his face with all the tools necessary.
 

bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
I guess my concern is, the only scenario i've hard that it's a good idea for us to not extend Miles is for when he he "predictably flops" or has a bad year. So did we not set th program back a year retaining a guy we are expecting to fail? Further, we then start the rebuilding year in 2019-2020 instead of this year with a new coach that's allowed to recruit.

I guess I would rather see Miles fail with all the tools he needs to succeed. Our AD isn't providing that, so we are basically just in a holding pattern until firing.
I think "rebuilding" in basketball is a much less daunting task than in football so I really don't worry about that so much.

Miles has all the tools he needs to have a successful season next year....assuming Palmer and Copeland return. Will this hurt recruiting? Maybe. Marginally.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I think "rebuilding" in basketball is a much less daunting task than in football so I really don't worry about that so much.

Miles has all the tools he needs to have a successful season next year....assuming Palmer and Copeland return. Will this hurt recruiting? Maybe. Marginally.
I would agree it's easier in basketball. The issue is if you wait until after next year, you are rebuilding for the 2019-2020 season not the 2018-2019 season. Not extending sets us back at least this year, if not for more than that.
 

bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
The idea that no recruits will come in is a stretch IMO. He will get recruits. Even if you extend 2 or 3 years everyone knows it's do-or-die next year so other coaches are going to "remind" kids...."Hey, be patient...don't sign with NU in November because it's fairly likely that Miles is getting the boot at the end of the season" so the better recruits are going to take a wait and see approach anyway.
 

MartyHuskerFan

Tired and True
The idea that no recruits will come in is a stretch IMO. He will get recruits. Even if you extend 2 or 3 years everyone knows it's do-or-die next year so other coaches are going to "remind" kids...."Hey, be patient...don't sign with NU in November because it's fairly likely that Miles is getting the boot at the end of the season" so the better recruits are going to take a wait and see approach anyway.
If Moos would have given full support along with a full contract and a raise, with the success they had on the court this year, nobody would think Miles is on the hot seat. Maybe they get some better recruits. Give Miles the full chance to succeed! If he does, then great!!!
Since Moos has not done that I agree its likely that Miles will struggle to bring in recruits or decent assistants. Meanwhile, Moos should be finding his guy! Offer the moon to the next coach and pay record amounts to his assistants.
Spend the money on Miles now, pay him big when you fire him, pay the next guy even bigger and pay his assistants well too. Spend spend spend. Do it all legally. Never look back! We saw what can happen with the transfers Miles brought in. Do that again, and even attract some 4 year guys that are good enough to play right away. Build the program!!!
 
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bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
If Moos would have given full support along with a full contract and a raise, with the success they had on the court this year, nobody would think Miles is on the hot seat. Maybe they get some better recruits. Give Miles the full chance to succeed! If he does, then great!!!
Since Moos has not done that I agree its likely that Miles will struggle to bring in recruits or decent assistants. Meanwhile, Moos should be finding his guy! Offer the moon to the next coach and pay record amounts to his assistants.
Spend the money on Miles now, pay him big when you fire him, pay the next guy even bigger and pay his assistants well too. Spend spend spend. Do it all legally. Never look back! We saw what can happen with the transfers Miles brought in. Do that again, and even attract some 4 year guys that are good enough to play right away. Build the program!!!
Opposing coaches aren't stupid. And It is likely that Hunter STILL leaves (because coaches within the program DO know about "tourney or bust" ultimatums)....and that sends a message. Hell HE would be telling recruits that very thing and word gets around.

Miles has had 6 years to "build the program" and he has failed to date.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
I guess my concern is, the only scenario i've hard that it's a good idea for us to not extend Miles is for when he he "predictably flops" or has a bad year. So did we not set th program back a year retaining a guy we are expecting to fail? Further, we then start the rebuilding year in 2019-2020 instead of this year with a new coach that's allowed to recruit.

I guess I would rather see Miles fail with all the tools he needs to succeed. Our AD isn't providing that, so we are basically just in a holding pattern until firing.
It’s a bigger risk to hire someone new that you don’t feel is the right fit.

This isn’t what I’d expect from Moos going forward. Moos handled the process with Riley incredibly well. He wasn’t bullied into some endorsement. He didn’t give a benchmark for wins, he said it was going to be an evaluation on the entire program. I don’t see that much of a difference with Miles.

‘All the tools’ shouldn’t include a golden parachute. He’s not on a 1 year salary, he’s still under contract should he flop next season.
 

Rainbow Dash

Task Force One...This is Eagle Eye
5 Year Member
Retain, but no extension? It doesn’t have to be $10 million. It could have been just a one year extension, wouldn’t that bump him up to 3 years? It’s not about Miles, it’s about the program.

It’s still feasible to recruit decent players when everyone knows that you are essentially done next year, huh. Just pop good recruits in the Easy-Bake Oven for 20 minutes and pull out committed Big 10 caliber players. So easy!

I’m convinced that we will see something regarding Miles this week while all of the media is obsessing over the spring game. If not though, if it’s just no extension and no comment, I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can reference it when discussing our 2019/2020 roster.
 

bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
Retain, but no extension? It doesn’t have to be $10 million. It could have been just a one year extension, wouldn’t that bump him up to 3 years? It’s not about Miles, it’s about the program.

It’s still feasible to recruit decent players when everyone knows that you are essentially done next year, huh. Just pop good recruits in the Easy-Bake Oven for 20 minutes and pull out committed Big 10 caliber players. So easy!

I’m convinced that we will see something regarding Miles this week while all of the media is obsessing over the spring game. If not though, if it’s just no extension and no comment, I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can reference it when discussing our 2019/2020 roster.
A 1 year extension sends the same message.
 

HuSkaBob

Husker Geek
5 Year Member
I’m convinced that we will see something regarding Miles this week while all of the media is obsessing over the spring game. If not though, if it’s just no extension and no comment, I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can reference it when discussing our 2019/2020 roster.
I think we'll see something from Moos on Basketball this week as well, which I expect will be a 1-2 year extension, perhaps renegotiated to have more performance bonuses. I am not sure that's any option on an extension, but it would check a couple of boxes that people are worried about.

Big picture, at this time next year we will either have Miles for many more years (and feeling better about that) or wondering about the new coach. Either way, Go Big Red.
 
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bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
If not though, if it’s just no extension and no comment, I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can reference it when discussing our 2019/2020 roster.
Just make sure you are able to identify the players that would have signed if miles had been given a 3 year extension AND stuck with their LOI post firing. ;)
 
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LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
First paragraph, we had a solid recruiting class because we were able to bring in Frost before the first signing period. We were in the 90s for team ranking when he took over, and had time to flip guys before they could sign. We don't have that with basketball. That's before we talk about actually having football tradition and bringing in a coach like Frost.

Agree on the second, but why are they going to be available next year and not this year? If we didn't have one this year, what makes us think there will be one next year?

On the third, that philosophy is basically making it so if Miles gets the job done, we are back to the bottom of the barrel in the 2019-2020 season due to not being able to recruit and most likely losing Palmer, Copeland, and/or Roby, if they aren't gone already with no one to come in and help until the transfer market.

To the fourth, it's clear no one thinks that, which is why you have to make the move to fire if you truly don't believe in him to extend him. Otherwise you are burying us for a couple years. There were Altman rumors flying around like wildfire, was that just fluff or does he want to wait another year? We are putting all our eggs in a basket that wasn't available this year, and hoping it will be next year? Ballsy.

Myself and others are not saying extend Miles to keep a recruiting class, which is what everyone is apparently reading. We are saying if you keep Miles and don't extend him, you set us back at minimum two years because we will have no one coming in to help us in 2019-2020 if he does well, or you are starting over with a new coach one year later, delaying the rebuild. If you fire him and bring in a new coach, the rebuilding process starts now. If you keep Miles and extend him, he can actually recruit to help his cause and falls on his face with all the tools necessary.
Everything you say is predicated on the simple belief that it has to be one way, or another. We have to extend, or fire. You are simply wrong. I know you’d prefer the two choices, as would most of us, but neither box A or box B were going to be the best, so Moos chose box C. It’s going to be a minor ripple in life in the world of Nebrasketball, but that’s all.

We have 3 guys who are testing NBA waters, so contract extension or not, they either jump to the pros, or come back for only another year. Most of the underclass are at risk more for playing time dissatisfaction than contract, so again, the extension isn’t a big deal. The new guys, absolutely a lack of certainty Miles is here is an issue, but Johnson was because of Hunter, not Miles. Hunter may or may not have jumped because of the contract, but most think UConn is a better opportunity at this point, and Miles rarely keeps his best assistants for long.

So we may lose a kid or two, but it’s not like we have to fill a 25 player roster, we are looking at maybe 4 or 5 kids to sign, and we have 2 there and not asking for a release at this point. Out of the hundreds of quality ball players looking for schools, we would need 2 or 3 that don’t sign early. I think we can manage that. And if we were to find ourselves with a new coach, there is always a chance someone he had committed to his prior school, or someone he’d formed a relationship with would find their way to our roster, just like Frost did.

Going forward I don’t see Moos settling, which is why I think he spends the next several months building relationships with preferred candidates. We will bring in a very solid candidate if Miles is cut loose.
 

MartyHuskerFan

Tired and True
I just have to say, its difficult to have a 5-way discussion like this. Nobody's fault, just difficult. Here are my thoughts apply them as you see fit.
  1. I don't believe that its impossible to win at Nebrasketball! Thinking like that is a big part of the problem. If nothing else Miles showed us this past season how much a program can turn around in one year with a complete turnover of talent. Imagine if they had a 5* superstar center that gelled with the team.
  2. Moos should have shown total support, regardless of the cost, and he did not, so its all over now but the waiting (till the next coach gets here)
  3. If Moos were showing full support all along in every way, giving raises, extensions, and public compliments, then Miles would have the recruiting clout he needs. There would still be those out there that disrespect Nebrasketball and rightfully so. But I think its a little smug for us to assume that everybody out there just knows the huskers will never be good under Miles. Bull feathers!
  4. It seems to be a waste our wonderful brain cells to try and imagine a scenario where Miles succeeds at this point. He does not have the support of his AD. His three best players are testing the market. His best recruiter left and took his best recruit with him. The best Miles can do now is hold it together and try and make a run this year.
  5. Miles will be fired at the end of this next season. Then what? Moos has to find the right guy for next year! Spend the money this time. Insist on getting assistants with excellent recruiting connections. Actually plant 2-3 superstars on the team via the coaching hire. (do it legally)
  6. The formula for long term success in Lincoln is this: a)miracle b)one 5* guy willing to stay 2 years c)a couple 4* guys (like Palmer and Copeland) to also stay a couple years d) bring in 1 Palmer each year and 1 of those 5* guys every couple years e)retain the local talent (only the best) that always seems to slip away.
 
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