2022 Kool Aid

[dallasblackshirt]

I'm not sure how TA may be just buying down SF's severance has much to do with what I said and what you were responding to. I was responding to someone who said the head coach will always be able to see the problems better than the AD. My comment was about suggesting that an outside set of eyes can often see things that those submersed in the program cannot, as they simply accept that as how things are done.

But, yes, the contractual agreement does "buy down" a potential severance. I disagree with what appears to be your implication that TA may have suckered Frost into this deal while secretly intending to fire Frost next year and replace him with a new coach and is just buying time to do so. I've not seen anything to suggest that TA is someone that plays underhanded games like that.

I'm happy to hear you are at peace with the decision to retain now. I just hope you are prepared for the possibility that SF will meet TA's expectations and be here beyond next season.

I in no way am implying TA suckered SF into a revised contract.

To be clear, I believe SF is embarrassed as he should with his horse s. performance. I think TA would have fired him absent the revised contract that gives him cover for bringing him back

And if SF wins 8-9 games next year and is retained I will accept that but not like it because this leopard will never change its spots. He sucks as a HC and always will because he has ZERO self awareness and is arrogant beyond no bounds. I don't know the man but i would bet he is a narcissist at his core

All that said the only chance SF has of winning 8 or more games next year is to
1. hire an OC who owns everything
2. hire a ST coach who owns everything
3. leave Chins alone
4. collect his paycheck

With all the above SF might get lucky and not lose his job.

 

[goodnterribles]

I in no way am implying TA suckered SF into a revised contract.

To be clear, I believe SF is embarrassed as he should with his horse s. performance. I think TA would have fired him absent the revised contract that gives him cover for bringing him back

And if SF wins 8-9 games next year and is retained I will accept that but not like it because this leopard will never change its spots. He sucks as a HC and always will because he has ZERO self awareness and is arrogant beyond no bounds. I don't know the man but i would bet he is a narcissist at his core

All that said the only chance SF has of winning 8 or more games next year is to
1. hire an OC who owns everything
2. hire a ST coach who owns everything
3. leave Chins alone
4. collect his paycheck

With all the above SF might get lucky and not lose his job.

Fan of the year

 

[Captkenny]

I in no way am implying TA suckered SF into a revised contract.

To be clear, I believe SF is embarrassed as he should with his horse s. performance. I think TA would have fired him absent the revised contract that gives him cover for bringing him back

And if SF wins 8-9 games next year and is retained I will accept that but not like it because this leopard will never change its spots. He sucks as a HC and always will because he has ZERO self awareness and is arrogant beyond no bounds. I don't know the man but i would bet he is a narcissist at his core

All that said the only chance SF has of winning 8 or more games next year is to
1. hire an OC who owns everything
2. hire a ST coach who owns everything
3. leave Chins alone
4. collect his paycheck

With all the above SF might get lucky and not lose his job.

I must have misunderstood your comments about the possibility that TA was just buying time for hiring a new coach while lowering the cost of buying Frost out. I'm glad to hear you don't believe that. I don't either. So we are in complete agreement.

Where we disagree is, I don't have any personal animosity towards Frost. I don't know him personally and have no insights into how he runs the program, so I cannot label him as a bad coach or sucking as a coach. That would be an unfair thing for me to do without more information. He and his staff have certainly kept this team fighting through the adversity of the season. Under the circumstances, the staff's ability to keep the team playing hard every week is an accomplishment that cannot be ignored.

If he turns the program around, I will give him credit for that. I agree that a leopard cannot change its spots, but it is possible for a coach to have failure and turn it around and have success, and vice versa. If he can't turn it around, I will be grateful for the blood and sweat he gave in his effort to turn the program around.

 

[joncarl]

Fan of the year

Sarcasm?

 

[Hville]

Another example of reading something I say and applying your own narrative to it. I never suggested anyone was responsible for preventing Scott from being successful. But if that is the case, it certainly should be corrected. As far as I know, Scott could do whatever he wanted, but Trev suggests some issues from the administration early on.

What I was clearly suggesting was that a good AD won’t simply say to himself, the coach failed and I’m going to fire him. There are objective, identifiable things that can be learned from talking to players, coaches, and assessing day to day operations. He should take the opportunity to find WHY that coach is failing. That way, he can either help fix it if possible, or hire a new coach and avoid the same mistakes in the future. In the past, the knee jerk reaction has been to replace the staff and wipe their hands of it. That hasn’t worked very well.

I’m sorry if that bothers some who see this rational process as too supportive of the current coach. But my desire is a successful program, not simply to feel gratification of watching yet another coach leave without progress.

It’s no wonder you always feel like people are misinterpreting what you are saying. Probably because you are always making some weird assumptions. To believe all our other firings have taken place without any evaluation of what and why the failings were and why is absurd. No ad has ever got rid of a coach just to was his hands. Well maybe SE but that’s a different cat.

As per your second point. Do you really believe fans and posters desire the personal gratification of watching another coach leave over having a successful program? At 15-29 it’s more rational to believe there are posters and fans who desire keeping a native son over a successful program.

 

[Hville]

The most tempting part of the 2022 Kool Aid is the schedule. This year our schedule was not set up for success. We literally played the three best teams out of the East, plus OU and our own division. Our strength of schedule will be much lower, which offers more opportunities to win. However, it also means if we don't pick up wins, there will be no excuses to keep Frost.

Appeal of the Kool Aid will also depend on if we get anyone out of the Portal and who these offseason hires will be.

I will also add some huge hits on the new hires.

 

[Hville]

Why wouldn't we start looking for reasons to be optimistic and hopeful? Completely focusing on negatives uses up too much energy.

Reasons to be optimistic:
- in general, we scored points against teams considered to have good defenses
- in general, we kept teams from scoring up to their usual numbers
- we had chances to win every game this season, we couldn't say that the past few seasons
- the offense loses only Toure and Allen (pending decisions on Martinez and maybe others)
- there are good young players coming back on both sides of the ball

Do those reasons outweigh the special teams debacles, untimely dumb mistakes, the occasional untimely bad calls...? Perhaps for many they will not; but, I'll choose to focus on the improvements I have seen and be back in my seats again next season.

Actually it takes much more energy to search for the positives. The negatives are right there in front of us week in and week out.

 

[goodnterribles]

Sarcasm?

Yes

 

[dallasblackshirt]

I must have misunderstood your comments about the possibility that TA was just buying time for hiring a new coach while lowering the cost of buying Frost out. I'm glad to hear you don't believe that. I don't either. So we are in complete agreement.

Where we disagree is, I don't have any personal animosity towards Frost. I don't know him personally and have no insights into how he runs the program, so I cannot label him as a bad coach or sucking as a coach. That would be an unfair thing for me to do without more information. He and his staff have certainly kept this team fighting through the adversity of the season. Under the circumstances, the staff's ability to keep the team playing hard every week is an accomplishment that cannot be ignored.

If he turns the program around, I will give him credit for that. I agree that a leopard cannot change its spots, but it is possible for a coach to have failure and turn it around and have success, and vice versa. If he can't turn it around, I will be grateful for the blood and sweat he gave in his effort to turn the program around.

I take personally that SF put his friends and loyalty above what was best for the program. NU as a program that is now a bottom feeder. Worst coach in NU history and it is amazing that anyone can't accept imperacle facts.

If he had made a genuine effort to right the ship after year 2 or 3 then fine. But he didn't. He has only hired one person who he hadn't worked with previously. What a small world to live in but that is SF, a little man who surrounds himself with smaller men

Does Saban operate that way? Hell no. Besides never hiring them, he would fired all the same coaches SF did this year but within one season. He does not tolerate losers

Further, I'm 60 years old and never heard a more bs comment than when SF said he was trying to get AM a signature win. Give me a break AM and SF have four years of being losers. When is the program first and not SF friends or favorite players?

So yeah, I don't like SF. He has robbed the state with Moos help and has demonstrated no shame for it

 

[Captkenny]

It’s no wonder you always feel like people are misinterpreting what you are saying. Probably because you are always making some weird assumptions. To believe all our other firings have taken place without any evaluation of what and why the failings were and why is absurd. No ad has ever got rid of a coach just to was his hands. Well maybe SE but that’s a different cat.

As per your second point. Do you really believe fans and posters desire the personal gratification of watching another coach leave over having a successful program? At 15-29 it’s more rational to believe there are posters and fans who desire keeping a native son over a successful program.

I don't ALWAYS feel people are misinterpreting what I'm saying. It's just on a few occasions, a very small group of people misinterpret what I say because they want to be argumentative. I'm not even certain whether they do it on purpose, or whether they sincerely don't understand the points I am making. Sometimes, when one's mind is cemented into believing something, you read what people say with a bias.

Do I believe that some fans and posters desire the personal satisfaction of watching another coach leave; absolutely. There are a number of posters here that have clearly concluded that Frost is incompetent and no amount of time will ever change that. One poster today described it as, "a leopard cannot change its spots. He sucks as a coach and always will." It would be far more bizarre to think that someone feels that way but would be satisfied with Frost staying. A week or two ago, one poster here suggested that, because next year's schedule is easier, Frost might give the illusion of success by winning enough games to survive and then we would be "stuck with him" for another year.

So, yeah, I think there are fans and posters who want to see Frost gone over all else. In their defense, they believe that Frost is a failure, will always be one, and nothing can be done to change that. So, it makes sense that they don't want to take the chance that he would have some reasonable level of success next year, be retained longer, and prolong what they 'know" to be inevitable.

 

[Hville]

Given the number of high profile HC openings this year which wasn't clear 2 weeks ago, I am less upset with retaining what has clearly been a bad HC.

Not that I totally disagree with you but we have never been in contention for a high profile experienced coach that LSU, OU, Florida, USC and Notre Dame go after.

 

[Captkenny]

I take personally that SF put his friends and loyalty above what was best for the program. NU as a program that is now a bottom feeder. Worst coach in NU history and it is amazing that anyone can't accept imperacle facts.

If he had made a genuine effort to right the ship after year 2 or 3 then fine. But he didn't. He has only hired one person who he hadn't worked with previously. What a small world to live in but that is SF, a little man who surrounds himself with smaller men

Does Saban operate that way? Hell no. Besides never hiring them, he would fired all the same coaches SF did this year but within one season. He does not tolerate losers

Further, I'm 60 years old and never heard a more bs comment than when SF said he was trying to get AM a signature win. Give me a break AM and SF have four years of being losers. When is the program first and not SF friends or favorite players?

So yeah, I don't like SF. He has robbed the state with Moos help and has demonstrated no shame for it

I don't take anything about this personally. It doesn't really make sense to. But others can do as they wish.

Hiring the staff that he worked with to bring UCF into an undefeated season and beat a top ranked team in a bowl is a fairly reasonable thing to do, in my view. He had confidence in them as a staff because of their success. You can make the argument that he should have parted ways sooner with some of them. But its hard to make the case that it was obvious they weren't going to get it done here after what they accomplished at UCF. They didn't see it as an illusion.

I can't speak to what Saban may have done. I don't know him very well. Never met the man. But you may be correct.

 

[dallasblackshirt]

Not that I totally disagree with you but we have never been in contention for a high profile experienced coach that LSU, OU, Florida, USC and Notre Dame go after.

I agree but with all the high profile openings this year it would have created even a more challenging search for TA. That's my humble opinion

 

[dallasblackshirt]

I don't ALWAYS feel people are misinterpreting what I'm saying. It's just on a few occasions, a very small group of people misinterpret what I say because they want to be argumentative. I'm not even certain whether they do it on purpose, or whether they sincerely don't understand the points I am making. Sometimes, when one's mind is cemented into believing something, you read what people say with a bias.

Do I believe that some fans and posters desire the personal satisfaction of watching another coach leave; absolutely. There are a number of posters here that have clearly concluded that Frost is incompetent and no amount of time will ever change that. One poster today described it as, "a leopard cannot change its spots. He sucks as a coach and always will." It would be far more bizarre to think that someone feels that way but would be satisfied with Frost staying. A week or two ago, one poster here suggested that, because next year's schedule is easier, Frost might give the illusion of success by winning enough games to survive and then we would be "stuck with him" for another year.

So, yeah, I think there are fans and posters who want to see Frost gone over all else. In their defense, they believe that Frost is a failure, will always be one, and nothing can be done to change that. So, it makes sense that they don't want to take the chance that he would have some reasonable level of success next year, be retained longer, and prolong what they 'know" to be inevitable.

Only people who ignore history believe SF has any likely chance of being a good coach. Has never been done in modern football history where a coach with four consecutive losing seasons ever suceeded.

What rational reasons do you base your hope on?

 

[Hville]

So, yeah, I think there are fans and posters who want to see Frost gone over all else. In their defense, they believe that Frost is a failure, will always be one, and nothing can be done to change that.

Well if you believe there are posters like that….and they have 15-29 to prove their point…..why would you state they prefer personal gratification of firing coaches over the success of the program? It’s exactly opposite. Maybe it’s statements like that fans find argumentative. There are many more indicators than not which point to a continued lack of success. You are entitled to ignore them. But trying to claim reasonable posters hate Scott Frost for no reason and get off on firing coaches is way off basis.