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Strength and Conditioning Discussion

Whether Duval is a Nebraska guy or not, he has to be held to the same standard of excellence that is expected from the players, other coaches, support staff, and administration. Like Walters, if he proves he is not fit for the job, then Scott HAS to make a move, because whether he likes it or not, the honeymoon is over and the clock is officially running.
 

Few really good points. The first, you can go even deeper than specific position training, it probably varies by athlete within position. For example, some athletes come in with different imbalances, some athletes come in not ever lifting. Different strokes for different folks.

In regard to 90s HuskerPower being body building, we may have to agree to disagree there. One thing I will give 90s HuskerPower is they had the flexibility, core, and ROM lifting down. Look at some of the old pics of us squatting back in the day, really low. Heck, our HC held the QB record for squat max back in the day at 475. That's where I get confused, you are telling guys they are squatting 850 pounds, so what happens to the squat records if guys are repping that amount of weight out? Couple that with us really being the only ones lifting compared to anyone else back in the day, and something is always better than nothing. But more isn't always better.

There's also a reason you could tell linemen they had to run under 5 seconds if they wanted to see the field back then. Literally only 3 OL at the combine ran under 5 seconds in the 40. A first, second, and fifth round pick. But back in the day it was a requirement to see the field in Lincoln? Why is it nearly impossible to do now? Athletes aren't getting slower, training isn't getting worse. It's an easy answer.
 
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I totally agree with you but I have a question what is Duvall’s program mainly trying to do? I have said for a long time we have to be the best in SC to get back to where we want we have to build our players I understand Husker Power but to your knowledge has Duvall made any changes? I did a ton of research on the Trap Bar and how it enhances speed anybody wanting to get good knowledge Ryan Flarurety’s articles he’s a combine guru talks about it and how he has done every exercise and this is best for speed development. Unilateral exercises are also huge now I would agree that if you have 10 years to produce winning teams and you failed 8 times that screams something to me. We always talk about recruiting but I see we lack in SC I’m not Debbie Downer on Duvall I just hope you could provide insight into some of his program and if he is adjusting to the times.
 
Something else that perhaps needs mentioning in this discussion is nutrition. There was a great pic from the 4th Q of the '95 Orange Bowl where you can see the Husker offensive linemen, and in the background you can see the Miami defensive lineman bent over or kneeling on the ground gasping for air. One thing that struck me about that pic is the Husker lineman are all close to 300lbs but they have flat stomachs. They were not fat cows with a large belly hanging out of their uniforms. It requires excellent nutrition as well as strength and conditioning to get that large without getting overly fat. Also, an athlete who is slimmer with less body fat is likely to be quicker because they are carrying less bad weight.
 
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I totally agree with you but I have a question what is Duvall’s program mainly trying to do? I have said for a long time we have to be the best in SC to get back to where we want we have to build our players I understand Husker Power but to your knowledge has Duvall made any changes? I did a ton of research on the Trap Bar and how it enhances speed anybody wanting to get good knowledge Ryan Flarurety’s articles he’s a combine guru talks about it and how he has done every exercise and this is best for speed development. Unilateral exercises are also huge now I would agree that if you have 10 years to produce winning teams and you failed 8 times that screams something to me. We always talk about recruiting but I see we lack in SC I’m not Debbie Downer on Duvall I just hope you could provide insight into some of his program and if he is adjusting to the times.
Add weight, add muscle, build confidence, build "working harder than others." Unilateral exercises fell into the "functional" area that we didn't believe in when our staff got here. That said, we are starting to do more of it which is one of the things that encourages me about where we are going.

We are getting the right kids, recruiting isn't the issue to me. 15th class, 25th class, we are getting better recruit than Purdue, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Iowa, we aren't developing them like those schools were.
 
I think I might regret breaking lurker status. Ignorance is bliss. Starting to think I should have remained ignorant. I guess I should be careful what I ask for.
Couple thoughts,

Quickness vs Speed. In general, I agree for the most part. Both are required to some degree, but I'd take the guy that can shift and cut on a dime but runs a 4.55 over the guy that is stiff as a board, can't change directions but runs a 4.3. In addition, smarts or brain power or whatever you want to call it has a lot to do with football speed.

Funny story on speed. I gave a former coach I know some grief back in the day when he told me a certain DB was starting over my choice for DB. ( this was just friends hacking on each other). I said I don't understand, my choice for starting DB was one of the guys you would throw into Freak Athlete discussions. I said, there is no way he shouldn't start, he is faster, bigger, tougher, stronger. His comment shut me up quickly.. it was " he may be a 4.4 on the track, but when he takes 2 steps in the wrong direction at the start of every play, he becomes a 5 flat guy in a game" So, you ought to shut up and talk about something you have some actual knowledge about. Needless to say, I shut up.....for a few minutes.

Standard of Excellence.
Duval probably is held to the same standard of excellence as everyone. Problem is that everyone has their opinion on what is right. They are dealing with the human body, so it is extremely difficult to "prove" right and wrong in many cases. Coach Frost, by what I can tell, believes in the philosophy, so his opinion is most likely that whatever they do is the standard for excellence. Having said all of this, I still don't want to come across as bagging on our S&C. Not the aim for starting a discussion, for all we know, in 5 years he will turn out to be the greatest ever and be the standard of excellence. Things change, we adapt, we learn and realize we know less than we thought. By the way, the thing that gives me hope, is watching old clips. I see QB Frost ripping massive weights in one video clip, then I watch him running through defenders, utilizing power, speed and pretty amazing agility and balance. It's why I still have high hopes for his vision in all phases. WIth COVID, I've watched more 90's clips bc there is little to nothing to watch. I just don't notice the lack of athleticism in most of those players. Holy Sxxt we have been blessed with some amazing players to watch over the years. Never dawned on me as I lived through it. Going back and watching, I have an even greater appreciation of it.

*** question -- I get confused as people refer to the 90's programming as body building, I think I see references to current training methods described as Crossfit. I'd argue the 90's training being bodybuilding but not worthy of going down that rabbit hole. Would you say our current training is similar to crossfit? Is that accurate?

By the way, fun thread (At least for me). Thanks all.
 
Unilateral work -- we don't do it? but are starting to do it? Unilateral work is fabulous. I'll leave it short and just leave it at that. That statement kind of blows my mind too.
 




Hey, ***, we're desperate during these trying days. What about something pending, new, exciting positive that you expect soon.
 
All fair points. It's not like us lifting is bad for us. And let's be honest, can we hold S&C responsible for Mo Washington? Or do we shift that more towards Raising Canes and insubordination?

Again, I don't mind Duval as Frost's guy. Heck, it's pretty cool to finally see an administration, coaching staff, and strength team all working in one direction. I do believe our ceiling is a bit limited based on the ability to combine the two, but I also think we can get to where we want to be with Moos, Frost, and Duval which is playing for division titles and getting a shot to put one perfect game together for a conference title.
I appreciate the insight. Are they doing the Husker power s&c with all positions or just some? I ask because Ozigbo seemed to gain some break away speed his last season that he didn’t have under Riley’s staff. Was that just a weight issue for him or something else?
 
Alright, i'll get into it a little. I really struggle with these threads, because people call me out for "talking out of both sides of my mouth" anyway. And in the case of our S&C, they're probably right. I see some flaws with what we do, but the Cornhuskers are my team. So am I going to sit here and say that we are screwed and what we are doing isn't close to correct? I'm not going there, but I will bring up some things that have been brought to my attention and things I don't agree with. I want to preface this though, if you get 100 strength coaches in a room, you'll get 100 ideas on how to do things. There's really not a perfect way to do things yet.

I'll start with something we have a lot of success with.... putting on weight. HuskerPower is basically a body builders workout where you put on a ton of mass and do the circuit workout. It starts with the back squat to increase testosterone throughout the circuit to naturally get the body kicking out what it needs to grow its muscles. This is primarily what we have built our program around. It makes sense, because rarely are you getting the 310 pound offensive or defensive linemen that is FBS/Power5 ready. Alabama is, but we aren't. And if any of you were at the 2018 coaches clinic where our coaches spoke, this is where my first worry happened. "There's this new term 'functional' that people are using. If you coaches stayed with HuskerPower from the 90s, you didn't set your program back at all. That's still the gold standard." The older coaches in the audience nodded with approval as if they took a viagra pill. They knew Nebraska football had changed something, and they were able to then go back to what they knew. But for me and a few guys, it was tough to digest, because we were being told that HuskerPower was the first thing in the history of earth that got it right the very first time it was created.

But when you take a deeper dive, is putting on weight always good? I can't find the thread, but remember everyone in July 2019 posting the pic of Martinez at the road race and talking about his "gains"? We couldn't get over what it was going to be like having him run over people at his new size. I tried to insert myself to slow the talk down, but at the same time you don't want to extinguish positive thoughts and messages. But fast-forward to the 2019 season, and was our QB more explosive? Was he faster? And you saw it across the board with our linemen in space, or the regression of some linebackers. Which leads me the point of the game isn't the 90s and in a phone booth anymore, it's being spread out and speed/athleticism is key. So again, there's been some advancements.

Now you have your teams like Wisconsin, etc., but they still defensively need to be able to stop the spread. So let me tell you where I worry a bit with what we are doing, with where football is heading, and how McCaffrey trains that you asked about.

I've read the book that he models his training after, it quite literally states that you should get rid of squatting. Now, I wouldn't do that, squatting is pretty important for some things. But it's a fundamental difference between the #1 lift we focus on, and what sprinters/McCaffrey focus on. For the most part, McCaffrey doesn't squat except for an occasional 1/4 box squat, it's almost all hex bar deadlifts and unilateral TRAINING. (I put in bold for you to remember later). What his book states, is that bodybuilding is not about actual strength and rhythmic reflexes, it's not about muscles working together, it's actually about growing muscles as much as you can. You don't have to worry about them working well together, because bodybuilding is designed for you to look good standing for an hour on stage (or in my case tipping back beers on the beach).

So how does that relate to us? If you have imbalances, and are just creating muscle gain, you are widening the gap of those muscles working in synergy, which gives you injuries. I think injuries have been a huge issue for us these first two years.

But let's go back to the word I bolded, TRAINING. For the most part, you are either training or you are exercising. McCaffrey talks about 5 minutes rest in between his sets, not doing more than 5 reps in season. Nebraska goes 30 seconds between reps in their circuit workout, or 10 reps of 800 or 900 pounds on the bar. It crushes your CNS (bolded for later talk). McCaffrey and his trainer talk about how the workouts take longer, but they are less taxing and his body performs better on the field. He talks about how he made the classic mistake of overtraining, if he wasn't feeling dead after his workout he took that as someone outworking him. He found out when he crushed his body all week, he was slower when it mattered most. He was exercising, he wasn't training to be the best NFL RB he could. He has a comment of "this may come off wrong, but I was working too hard and it was having a negative impact on my performance." Here, we were celebrating "having puke buckets".



Those are just a few of the things I struggle with. We put too much weight on guys, wreck their CNS, and the high weight high rep squats at limited range of motion are creating unathletic players in the open field, IMO. I don't know what changed, and i've told this story before, but we went to a smaller college where a buddy had a cousin. One of his friends looked at a Nebraska DL and goes "what makes you guys just **** on everyone." The player looked at him and I am not lying, went down to touch his toes and his elbows almost hit the ground he was so flexible. We've lost a bit of that. We look stiff and unable to react in open spaces. I'll just go ahead and put this out there, I don't think you can combine HuskerPower with Oregon speed offenses. Oregon had a track coach getting their guys fast, we have an outwork your opponent get jacked strength coach. That wasn't a negative, i'm just saying how do you combine those two things? There's a place for both things in football, but I just don't know how you can reach your max potential if you try to do both things. One focuses on muscle gain, Oregon and now Alabama focus on speed training and getting guys as fast as possible. There's a reason Usain Bolt was the fastest to ever do it, but looks like he really doesn't lift at all.

I'm just going to go one more negative thing and i'm not trying to be a prick here, but it was brought up to me by someone that had played with our strength staff at a previous stop, and I spoke with them roughly a month ago. He knew I was a Nebraska guy and asked how I thought things were going. Told him what I say on here... "we will get where we want, Frost won't let us be mediocre long, but we definitely should have been to a bowl game last year. We underachieved." The guy shook his head but had had a few pops so he wasn't going to let it slide. "Ya, you're lucky you have Frost. I think 2019 was your strength coaches 8th losing season out of 10 tries." That was a crazy stat I had to fact-check. He went on to say "there's a reason he's only been recommended or hired by old Nebraska guys, a lot has changed since then. The teams you are losing to are getting their guys hired away to CFP teams. Indiana doesn't get better players than Nebraska. But they are trained better. Watch to see what Alabama does the next few years with those coaches."

I don't mean to go so negative there, but 8 losing seasons out of 10 is a crazy stat. Our biggest issue IMO is lack of athleticism. With Covid, guys were running hills and doing body weight or makeshift weight room workouts on their own, for the most part. I think that's going to be huge. You see some of these guys and they can't even turn to talk to you they've gotten so big. Guys like Ben Stille and Matt Farniok are plenty big, time to get them athletic and mobile which we have been doing the past few months. I think that is really going to help us in the long run. I just really struggle with how we've looked. How did Colorado with a strength staff and football coaches only there for 2 games beat us? We could have 95% of the players on Indiana and Purdue if we offer them a scholarship, but they beat us.

All of that said, we are going to get there. 7 wins for sure this year. I like what we are doing and our staff definitely took a look in the mirror after 2019. It didn't go the way the coaches or players wanted it to. And it wasn't from lack of effort.

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Add weight, add muscle, build confidence, build "working harder than others." Unilateral exercises fell into the "functional" area that we didn't believe in when our staff got here. That said, we are starting to do more of it which is one of the things that encourages me about where we are going.

We are getting the right kids, recruiting isn't the issue to me. 15th class, 25th class, we are getting better recruit than Purdue, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Iowa, we aren't developing them like those schools were.

Great comments and insight. It's a complex subject so I can be optimistic one day and pessimistic the next because we need to see results. Overall, I'm still hopeful, but we'll see. We can't be middle of the pack and expect to get to where we want to be, and to this point, there's not an indication that we're middle of the pack (not enough data in just yet to ascertain, IMO).

I think you had a comment earlier in the thread where you said that Bama was getting guys who were already big enough and strong enough to compete on a regular basis and that we weren't getting them. I think that is spot on, and it is a different type of programming to add 40+ lbs to someone to get them big enough and strong enough to play in a P5 Conference than it is to help someone add 10 lbs or drop bad weight and add a bit of strength and quickness.

But, we also have to show we can get the speed and quickness we need after adding that weight and make it work on the field. We may have overreacted a bit when the coaches got to the B10 and saw our roster losing on the line consistently (seem to remember Frost saying we needed to get a lot bigger), and then maybe going too far and losing the ability to move with some players. A similar thing happened with Pelini when we moved to the B10 and bulked up a few people beyond what we probably should have.

While I get that part of winter conditioning is building team camaraderie and letting leaders assert themselves, we almost have a need for 2 S&C Programs and maybe splitting them very specifically could help us design better and more specific programming.

1. A naive lifter program designed to maximize the gains in Strength, Size, and brute explosiveness in the minimum time. Dump almost all the walk-ons into this, and most freshman linemen and a lot of freshman and graduate them to the Indiana/Bama style program when ready

2. A functional football program that takes those graduated players who are ready to match up against the size and strength of the conference and builds their speed and explosiveness and functional football skills to maximize them for the field (we seem to have been able to do a bit of this pretty well with guys like Ozigbo, but not consistently)

We seem to have been getting good enough players to be better than we should be on the field now, but the entirely of the program needs to be in alignments: Recruiting >> S&C >> System and use on the field.

One name that I've followed a bit is Doug Elisaia from Utah. They've been packing guys into the combine and they've shown well there
 
I appreciate the insight. Are they doing the Husker power s&c with all positions or just some? I ask because Ozigbo seemed to gain some break away speed his last season that he didn’t have under Riley’s staff. Was that just a weight issue for him or something else?
Ya, they are doing it with pretty much everyone. Ozigbo was victim of thinking to see the field pre 2018 he needed to be the big bulldozer back because Wilbon and Bryant had the "smaller back" roles "locked up". Once Wilbon left and Bryant retired, he was free to sculpt himself how he knew it worked best and lose weight. Our S&C definitely deserves credit there. A guy like Jaylin Bradley literally put on too much muscle when doing the HuskerPower circuit, crazy to think about. So he had to scale it back.
 



Hey, ***, we're desperate during these trying days. What about something pending, new, exciting positive that you expect soon.
Offense will look great this year
New facilities
Incorporating some unilateral things and more running this spring as opposed to just putting on weight
More north/south rushing attack with Austin leading the run game
Lubick will have us going faster than we have the past two years
Culture issues can't be deflected elsewhere anymore, guys here are here because they want to be
 
Offense will look great this year
New facilities
Incorporating some unilateral things and more running this spring as opposed to just putting on weight
More north/south rushing attack with Austin leading the run game
Lubick will have us going faster than we have the past two years
Culture issues can't be deflected elsewhere anymore, guys here are here because they want to be
You forgot the 2020 prediction of 10 wins. C'mon man!!!!! :Signhuh:
 
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Fair points about Ozigbo. He did look fast and nimble his Sr. Year. He was fun to watch. Again, I have no real concept of what Husker Power is or what Duval and Co. do programming wise. I just like the topic bc I think it has as much to do with success...and it makes for interesting debates. The article posted about the new Tide S&C coach says that programming for the masses, about 1/3 will respond. Sounds reasonable to me and kind of gives an answer to why some kids get better, some don't. If you are in lifting weights and working out, my guess is that a certain percentage of players benefit greatly from it, some benefit in some ways, some stay the same and some regress. His point is that each individual has to require his own unique programming to address his areas of weakness....or get better. Programming workouts to address areas of need vs programming a workout for a position group seems pretty logical. I wonder how many follow this methodology vs creating workouts for the whole or even position groups? I'd bet his programming methodology is in the minority right now.
 

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