Developing players is hard

[goodnterribles]

Look at how many were not his recruits as well. His entire offensive line was inherited. So was one of their best defensive players (Griffin) and offensive players (Tre'quan Smith). Hence, not his recruits. Until the two-deep is entirely his recruits, he's gaining some benefit from the previous coach.

So no credit for getting them to play for him? For turning Griffin into an NFL draft pick?

I'm seriously shocked that anyone actually believes Riley is a better coach than Frost.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

I am not stumping for Frost to be fired. I'm calling out the way the fans treated Riley. Again, reading what you want.

I didn't say you were stumping for Frost to be fired.
Again, reading what you want.
Can you not acknowledge your hypocrisy here?

Why do you care so much about how Riley was treated?

As for history, context, yada yada yada...I am taking them into account,

No, you are not. You are just deceiving yourself, and are not capable of having an honest discussion about it.

"yada, yada, yada" indeed...

I am not stumping for Frost to be fired. I'm calling out the way the fans treated Riley. Again, reading what you want.

And I just pointed out you made a thinly veiled comment towards me to show recognition. Not sure why you think I'm upset about it.

I've gone over in depth why people shouldn't treat Frost as the Second Coming, though I do trust he will get it done. I've also explained why I find the treatment of Riley inconsistent to Frost, which you don't agree with. That's fine but you haven't made any convincing arguments the other way either other than "but upside" which I've already acknowledged.

Just because someone is giving Frost more leeway than Riley, doesn't mean they think Frost is the Second Coming.

You are projecting/demanding consistency between two very dissimilar people/events. Just because you want to disregard those facts to simplify your approach, doesn't make you correct, nor does it justify the the generalization you make about others.

I've made convincing arguments, you just don't want to acknowledge them and participate.
Time for you to run and hide again...the boogeyman is coming.

 

[Maverick]

The bolded is key here.
"what have you done for me lately?"

As Matt Davison said, “Let’s face it, Mike Riley was a high risk hire. He had 3 losing seasons in the previous 5 and was coming off of a 5-7 season.”

"Experts"?
Other coaches are always going to build up other coaches. It's a fraternity. They each know how tenuous their job situations are, so they stick up for each other.

Riley's first 2 years at OSU were horrible.
Then he had 3 years in NFL: 1 avg, 1 bad, and 1 ugly
Meanwhile, Dennis Erickson was at OSU for 4 years (1 great, 2 avg, 1 bad)
Then MR came back

MR's last 11 years at OSU, after he took over after Dennis Erickson left (8-5 in 2002):
- It's a continuous downward trend for 3 years (ending with a losing season),
- then a blip up (10-4, his best season ever),
- then 4 years of steady downward (last 2 are losing seasons),
- then only a Bo-sized blip up,
- then 2 more years steady downward (last one a losing season),
- then his debacle at NU

MR's career at OSU was mostly avg/bad, with only a couple of blips up.
Most years he was trending downward. It seems the good years were the anomalies.

Frost career as an assistant and HC was stellar and trending up prior to NU



LOL. you seem to be projecting again. Why do you continue to marginalize his experiences and history?

No matter how you try to spin it, Frost brought WAY more potential than Riley, who never should have even been here in the first place.

Stop generalizing people who give Frost a long runway simply as 'homers'.
You are being intellectually dishonest.

The blips up were also based on his roster, his team, his scheme. Oregon State is difficult to win at, but I agree Frost has more potential (though entirely unproven imo).

And I'm only "minimizing" his success for other Nebraska fans. He has never been a coordinator or a HC for more than 3 years at the same place. I want him to be successful, but that is not enough evidence to say his success is sustainable.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

Without his recruits? Well that's false, take a look at the number of Frost recruits that contributed at UCF.
I seriously can't believe this argument is occuring. Mike Riley is, always was, and always will be a mediocre coach. Scott Frost isnt.

I know, right?

Simply amazing...

 

[Maverick]

So no credit for getting them to play for him? For turning Griffin into an NFL draft pick?

I'm seriously shocked that anyone actually believes Riley is a better coach than Frost.

He gets some credit sure, but we are talking about his ability as a head coach which includes being able to recruit and manage the roster. The first I think is looking good for skill players at the minimum, but the latter takes time to prove and he hasn't had that...hence unproven.

I'm also not arguing that Frost is worse than Riley. I'm arguing that Riley is not as bad as his record indicates, and that Frost's HC ability is an unknown right now. I've said multiple times I think Frost has more potential.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

Look at how many were not his recruits as well. His entire offensive line was inherited. So was one of their best defensive players (Griffin) and offensive players (Tre'quan Smith). Hence, not his recruits. Until the two-deep is entirely his recruits, he's gaining some benefit from the previous coach.

Which was still better than what Riley did with what he inherited.

Advantage: Frost

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

So no credit for getting them to play for him? For turning Griffin into an NFL draft pick?

I'm seriously shocked that anyone actually believes Riley is a better coach than Frost.

Taking into account Frosts record here (and of course ignoring all other context and variables), it's an arguable belief.

But Frost STILL carries more potential than Riley did, and not simply because of homerism.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

He gets some credit sure, but we are talking about his ability as a head coach which includes being able to recruit and manage the roster. The first I think is looking good for skill players at the minimum, but the latter takes time to prove and he hasn't had that...hence unproven.

I'm also not arguing that Frost is worse than Riley. I'm arguing that Riley is not as bad as his record indicates, and that Frost's HC ability is an unknown right now. I've said multiple times I think Frost has more potential.

You are wasting your time engaging with that guy...my advice, leave him grumbling to himself.

 

[LurkSker44]

At Northwestern
Illinois
at Rutgers

That's supposed to be the easy part of our schedule and Northwestern always gives us a tough time and Illinois finished higher than us this season in the B1G. Could be a bit more bumpy than people think.

I do not like next year's schedule based on this years results. That doesn't always translate into what s going to happen next year. At this point I don't think I'll be drinking any kool-aid until the team gives me a reason to on the field. I was leery this year too but fully expected 8 wins. Next year I don't even want to try and predict. I've seen some already predict 9, 10 wins. That blows my mind!

 

[Maverick]

I didn't say you were stumping for Frost to be fired.
Again, reading what you want.
Can you not acknowledge your hypocrisy here?

Why do you care so much about how Riley was treated?

No, you are not. You are just deceiving yourself, and are not capable of having an honest discussion about it.

"yada, yada, yada" indeed...

Just because someone is giving Frost more leeway than Riley, doesn't mean they think Frost is the Second Coming.

You are projecting/demanding consistency between two very dissimilar people/events. Just because you want to disregard those facts to simplify your approach, doesn't make you correct, nor does it justify the the generalization you make about others.

I've made convincing arguments, you just don't want to acknowledge them and participate.
Time for you to run and hide again...the boogeyman is coming.

I care about how Husker fans treat their coaches because I am a Husker fan.

I've had an honest discussion. You just don't agree. Those are widely different.

As for stumping for him being fired, it was a summary of this quote

you seem to really be stumping for others to call for his head

Not the best summary, but overall you are accusing me of encouraging people to call for his firing which is indirectly encouraging his firing.

And no you haven't made convincing arguments. Your best argument is something I already agreed with (Frost's higher potential). Everything else has not given me any evidence that Frost is a proven commodity any more than Chizik was in 2014.

 

[Maverick]

You are wasting your time engaging with that guy...my advice, leave him grumbling to himself.

I'm more of an optimist than that. You are probably correct as whenever we start, it tends to take over the thread.

 

[Maverick]

I do not like next year's schedule based on this years results. That doesn't always translate into what s going to happen next year. At this point I don't think I'll be drinking any kool-aid until the team gives me a reason to on the field. I was leery this year too but fully expected 8 wins. Next year I don't even want to try and predict. I've seen some already predict 9, 10 wins. That blows my mind!

Yeah, I'm hoping a lot of this year was 1) 2AM's sophomore slump and 2) missing Stanley Morgan. 1 should fix itself and 2 could be fixed with Omar. That said, I'm also going to avoid the kool-aid for now.

 

[huskermike]

MR's coaching record.

Overall:
112–99 (college) = 53%
14–34 (NFL) = 29.16%
40–32 (CFL) = 55.55%
11–9 (WLAF) = 55%
5–3 (AAF) = 62.5%

Total:
182-177 = 49.86% 50.69%

*edit; for miscalculation

 

[goodnterribles]

MR's coaching record.

Overall:
112–99 (college) = 53%
14–34 (NFL) = 29.16%
40–32 (CFL) = 55.55%
11–9 (WLAF) = 55%
5–3 (AAF) = 62.5%

Total:
182-177 = 49.86%

He had something going in the AAF.

 

[huskermike]

Yep. Who knows how long it would have lasted.