Developing players is hard

[Middle-aged_Ball_Coach]

I think the difference is more like we have a player that's better than 75% of players in the system that fits him, but 50% in one that doesn't. You don't have to have the highest rated players if you fit them into the system. If you have the same system and can identify players that will develop and succeed in it, you will have success as a team. I think Mo Barry would be more successful in another defense - probably the same for Jojo Domann. They are trying very hard to succeed in this one (and I'm happy to have them). I don't know that this staff will find the right players and develop them as they haven't had to, but we have to give them the chance (or just give up on Husker football).

Well said. In retrospect, both Mo Barry and Will Honas were much better suited as a Mike LB in a 4-3 defense where they would have had less pass coverage responsibilities and more inside run-support responsibilities. The Davis twins would have been better as 4-3 DTs lining up over Guards instead of OTs. Alex Davis would have been better as a 4-3 DE with almost no responsibilities apart from setting an edge and rushing the passer. Domann would have made a great playmaking Will LB in a 4-3 like we ran in the 90s. There are more examples, but that should be enough.

 

[satcong2]

If a coaching staff can't upgrade the players recruited into the system, why even play the schedule?

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

The blips up were also based on his roster, his team, his scheme. Oregon State is difficult to win at, but I agree Frost has more potential (though entirely unproven imo).

Oh....NOW you are considering other variables than just record? How convenient.
And by convenient, I mean how inconsistent of you.

Frosts potential is unproven? You find the oddest things to nitpick about

And I'm only "minimizing" his success for other Nebraska fans.

Well that's mighty white of you

How considerate of you to do the thinking for other fans and criticizing/mocking them when you generalize them and assume their opinions don't conform to your worldview.

Anyone who wouldn't give Riley the chance at four years should be calling for Frost right now.

Its homerism at its finest.

He has never been a coordinator or a HC for more than 3 years at the same place. I want him to be successful, but that is not enough evidence to say his success is sustainable.

Then its a good thing I never said his HC/coordinator experience is enough evidence to prove his success sustainable.

You are moving the goalposts, or changing the subject, or arguing about things I never said, or whatever you want to call it. You've done it before, you do it often, you're doing it here, and you deny it every time.

I've gone over in depth why people shouldn't treat Frost as the Second Coming, though I do trust he will get it done. I've also explained why I find the treatment of Riley inconsistent to Frost, which you don't agree with. That's fine but you haven't made any convincing arguments the other way either other than "but upside" which I've already acknowledged.

Where did I simply argue "but upside"? You are making things up.
Just because you don't agree with the arguments of others, doesn't mean they don't exist.
Those are wildly different.

I've not argued that people should treat Frost as the Second Coming.
Just because someone is giving him more time than they gave Riley, doesn't mean they think Frost is the Second Coming. It also doesn't mean they are being inconsistent.

I've explained all this already, but you have chosen to ignore it and continue to stand by your generalizations, and then turn around and make false accusations/characterizations about me.
But that's what you do...

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

He gets some credit sure, but we are talking about his ability as a head coach which includes being able to recruit and manage the roster. The first I think is looking good for skill players at the minimum, but the latter takes time to prove and he hasn't had that...hence unproven.

I'm also not arguing that Frost is worse than Riley. I'm arguing that Riley is not as bad as his record indicates, and that Frost's HC ability is an unknown right now. I've said multiple times I think Frost has more potential.

So what? Everyone is an unknown at a new/different job until they start performing at their new job.
Why do you insist on comparing Frost of today to Riley of 2 years ago? False equivalency.
Right or wrong, Riley is gone. Bo arguably didn't deserve to be fired either, which would mean Riley never should have been here in the first place.
They are both gone, and not coming back.
Frost was hired to correct the mistakes of the past. Maybe he will turn out to be a mistake too, but at the time he was hired, he had enough of a resume to make it seem like a no-brainer.
Frost is our current coach now, so please stop shaming fans simply for supporting him but not conforming to your subjective worldview.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

I care about how Husker fans treat their coaches because I am a Husker fan.

Your hubris is noted.
Are you implying that if someone does not denounce how Riley might have been treated unfairly, that they are NOT a Husker fan?
It's a rhetorical question. I don't want to see you get dizzy from your spinning.

As for stumping for him being fired, it was a summary of this quote

Not the best summary, but overall you are accusing me of encouraging people to call for his firing which is indirectly encouraging his firing.

grasping for straws again? Such speculation.
You are not sharing the entire quote. But that is to be expected, because you often take things out of context, disregard data, and make assumptions in order to show that someone does not conform to your worldview.

And no you haven't made convincing arguments. Your best argument is something I already agreed with (Frost's higher potential). Everything else has not given me any evidence that Frost is a proven commodity any more than Chizik was in 2014.

I have made convincing arguments, and others have agreed with me.
Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Those are wildly different.

Where was I trying to show that Frost is a proven commodity better than Chizik?
You are moving the goalposts again.

You are the one who is upset that more fans aren't denouncing the alleged unfair treatment of Riley
You generalize their opinions and assume how they are formed and you claim:

Anyone who wouldn't give Riley the chance at four years should be calling for Frost right now.

Its homerism at its finest.

Those statements are flat out subjective speculative hyperbole and false equivalencies.

I seriously can't believe this argument is occuring. Mike Riley is, always was, and always will be a mediocre coach. Scott Frost isnt.

It is truly unbelievable.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

I'm more of an optimist than that. You are probably correct as whenever we start, it tends to take over the thread.

Optimistic about what? Is there some objective of yours that is encountering an obstacle, and am I the only variable in that equation, or is there other datum that you are choosing to ignore?

That you would dignify his blatant troll post by inferring it to be sincere and deserves a response, is very telling.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

No one is saying Frost should be let go. I'm pointing out the inconsistencies caused by homerism. The "right" solution would be to have given Riley his fair shake at succeeding. At this point, it would just be nice to see people recognize how poorly we treated our previous coach as a general fanbase.

 

[lincoln84]

MR walked off with like 19 million. He deserved about $19,000 for his pathetic efforts here. He was treated just fine.

 

[Maverick]

The irony of this post...

Clearly we don't agree. My optimism is that some day we will find common ground. I'd take the time to respond to your other 4 (?!) comments but it's clearly not moving the needle one way or the other.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

The irony of this post...

I acknowledge the irony of it. I even expected someone to point it out as I was posting it.
But I believe you lack the self-awareness to acknowledge why I made it.

Clearly we don't agree. My optimism is that some day we will find common ground.

If that's true then why don't you answer the rest of post #171 instead of just the first question.
But it will require self-awareness.

It's not about simply disagreeing. It's about being intellectually lazy, and you being hypocritical about it.

I'd take the time to respond to your other 4 (?!) comments but it's clearly not moving the needle one way or the other.

What is the bolded supposed to imply? Have you not been making comments to my posts and others?
I thought that's how it works...

If moving the needle is what's important to you to get others to ascribe to your worldview, how about you respond to this question, where you generalized @FeelLikeAStranger post and made assumptions about him that you refuse to back up:

Exactly how does it prove your point?

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

Clearly we don't agree. My optimism is that some day we will find common ground.

I doubt the sincerity of this comment, and I predict that you will prove its insincerity by simply responding with an emojii instead of making an honest effort to explain how @FeelLikeAStranger post allegedly proves your point.

 

[Maverick]

I doubt the sincerity of this comment, and I predict that you will prove its insincerity by simply responding with an emojii instead of making an honest effort to explain how @FeelLikeAStranger post allegedly proves your point.

@FeelLikeAStranger proved my point, with this comment

For the record, Riley should never have been hired, and he should have been fired on day 1

combined with a "Hell no" in looking for Frost to be let go after two years of lackluster results. Frost has one season to rest his laurels on. He has three others that were sub-par. My point from the beginning has been that Frost and Riley are on double standards from the fans. My opinion on why is due to Frost being homegrown, i.e. homerism. My primary reason is how little direct evidence there is that Frost can get it done here. He has one (albeit fantastic) year at UCF that is skewed by what was happening at the school before he got there. Everything else is indirect, and outside of his OC experience, I'd say barely even that.

 

[Maverick]

I doubt the sincerity of this comment, and I predict that you will prove its insincerity by simply responding with an emojii instead of making an honest effort to explain how @FeelLikeAStranger post allegedly proves your point.

As for the emoji, it's just how I respond when you start down one of your rants. You seem to have a target on me, and I find it funny, hence the laughing emoji. For example in this thread, most of your comments were quoting me. Even some of the ones that weren't were just jabs at me. In comparison, less than a third of mine quoted you. And only when responding to a direct quote about you did I mention you (and in a hopeful way nonetheless). I expect this in HT, but figured this kind of stuff was frowned upon in the FB forum.

 

[CO4NU]

Seems like a lot of fear here.

Terrifyingly inconceivable that he might not get it done.

Granted, Scott's overall HC record is not HOF material.

Hope for the best, "I believe we all are".....but also plan for the worst.

Frost may not get it done. Imo...its not sacrilegious or anti- Frost in that thinking.

Just self preservation.

 

[CrabHusker]

Seems like a lot of fear here.

Terrifyingly inconceivable that he might not get it done.

Granted, Scott's overall HC record is not HOF material.

Hope for the best, "I believe we all are".....but also plan for the worst.

Frost may not get it done. Imo...its not sacrilegious or anti- Frost in that thinking.

Just self preservation.

I’ll admit during several games this fall thinking ‘This has a shot at failing’. And not just the 2019 season.

Lots of hope man. Lots of it.