Developing players is hard

[goodnterribles]

USC and Alabama both tried to steal Riley away in his younger years. His coaching peers constantly described him as one of the best. I'll give you he never had the W-L record of an exceptional coach, but I'll trust the experts.

As I've said before, we just don't have enough evidence on Frost. He could be the next Chizik as easily as he could be the next Saban. He has almost zero experience as HC and he inherited a unique situation at UCF that may have inflated his success. I still think he is successful but I'm not going to spin the decision as a clear upgrade either. We ultimately took a chance on an unproven coach with one fantastic season because he played here.

It's not spin to say it's a clear upgrade because it absolutely is.

 

[Maverick]

Experts?

Sure, Alabama got it right with Saban, but before that you had Mike Schula, Dennis Francione, and (my favorite) Mike Dubose
USC had Larry Smith, John Robinson, Paul Hackett (yep), got it right with Carroll, but then went through a bunch of guys and Helton's been a rumor mill all to himself.

I have no worries about Frost. He can figure it out and his ceiling as a coach is very high. There are plenty of veteran coaches who know what they are doing, but who are clearly at the best level they can manage (e.g., Riley)

The experts I mentioned were his coaching peers. The USC and Alabama offers were just supporting evidence.

And I'm glad you have no worries over Frost, but I'm curious as to why? What has he done outside of one successful season? I'm optimistic, but I can't say I'm not worried.

 

[Maverick]

It's not spin to say it's a clear upgrade because it absolutely is.

How so? What evidence is there today that Frost is not fool's gold other than a gut feeling and one good season with another coach's players in a Group of Five conference? His win over Auburn? His Broyles award?

Gene Chizik went 14-0 at Auburn with a national championship and a Broyles award. Is he clearly better than Riley?

 

[goodnterribles]

How so? What evidence is there today that Frost is not fool's gold other than a gut feeling and one good season with another coach's players in a Group of Five conference? His win over Auburn? His Broyles award?

Gene Chizik went 14-0 at Auburn with a national championship and a Broyles award. Is he clearly better than Riley?

Yes he is. Mike Riley couldnt go undefeated in Pop Warner.
Frost may not ever come close to his success at UCF, but he will do better than Riley ever did. That I can guarantee.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

"misled"?
You think he's deliberately lying?
Yes you probably do. You've been pushing the narrative that he's not honest in his statements ever since the day he was hired.
Perhaps he was just mistaken/overestimating, and wasn't deliberately misleading.
Where is your entitlement coming from that you seem to be taking what he said so personally?
Did you lose some bets that were made based on his statements?

If you want me to stop pointing out your trolling, then I suggest you stop trolling.

I've criticized every coach NU has had at some point.
I never said he's not subject to criticism. In fact, I've explicitly said the opposite

You have failed again due to your lack of awareness.

Some of you people and your intellectual dishonesty and sense of entitlement just baffles me.

You with your seed-planting and maneuvering to hedge your bets to better enable you to deny/claim something in the future, just so you can say "FIRST"

And others in this thread who discard all context and variables to form faux equivalence so they can make generalized assumptions about how other's opinions are formed and chastising them as though they should be based on simply the W/L record of a coach's first year here.

And others who distort a single, innocuous, soundbyte into some sort of all-encompassing creedo that defines everything about who that are and all that they do and explains his alleged ulterior motives

Your posts get sillier and sillier every year...maybe you should have someone else read them before posting.

 

[goodnterribles]

Your posts get sillier and sillier every year...

Are you still excited about what's on the way in 2016 and beyond?

 

[Maverick]

Yes he is. Mike Riley couldnt go undefeated in Pop Warner.
Frost may not ever come close to his success at UCF, but he will do better than Riley ever did. That I can guarantee.

Chizik is a career 38-38 coach which is worse than Riley even with his 14-0 season. That championship is likely due to a little help from his replacement Malzahn who was the OC at the time.

Frost outside of his one undefeated season is 7-6, 4-8, and 5-7. He has upside but he hasn't proven he can be better (yet). Just a fun coincidence but both Chizik and Frost were credited for a huge turnaround in only the second year at a program without their own recruits. Chizik fell on his face while Frost left before he had them.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

Your posts get sillier and sillier every year...maybe you should have someone else read them before posting.

Kentucky says hi

 

[Huskerwisdom]

Yes he is. Mike Riley couldnt go undefeated in Pop Warner.
Frost may not ever come close to his success at UCF, but he will do better than Riley ever did. That I can guarantee.

there was a great interview on Youtube a while back about Jon Gruden's first interview with Al Davis. Gruden flew out and apparently spent a weekend or more with Al Davis in a room with a big white board. Davis grilled him with millions of questions to pick his brain. Gruden didn't have head coaching experience at that time and not that much coaching experience either, but he had the right brain to lead a team.

Agree. Riley may have been cutting edge once upon a time, but he was coasting here.

 

[goodnterribles]

Chizik is a career 38-38 coach which is worse than Riley even with his 14-0 season. That championship is likely due to a little help from his replacement Malzahn who was the OC at the time.

Frost outside of his one undefeated season is 7-6, 4-8, and 5-7. He has upside but he hasn't proven he can be better (yet). Just a fun coincidence but both Chizik and Frost were credited for a huge turnaround in only the second year at a program without their own recruits. Chizik fell on his face while Frost left before he had them.

Without his recruits? Well that's false, take a look at the number of Frost recruits that contributed at UCF.
I seriously can't believe this argument is occuring. Mike Riley is, always was, and always will be a mediocre coach. Scott Frost isnt.

 

[goodnterribles]

there was a great interview on Youtube a while back about Jon Gruden's first interview with Al Davis. Gruden flew out and apparently spent a weekend or more with Al Davis in a room with a big white board. Davis grilled him with millions of questions to pick his brain. Gruden didn't have head coaching experience at that time and not that much coaching experience either, but he had the right brain to lead a team.

Agree. Riley may have been cutting edge once upon a time, but he was coasting here.

Honestly, I don't think he was ever cutting edge.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

It's interesting how easy it is for you to find faults in everyone else yet can't see when you are reading only what you want to hear.

Its interesting that you do the exact same thing and refuse to acknowledge it.
And by 'interesting', I mean 'not surprising'

Bill Moos said he'd be happy with six wins. Do you think Moos had a better understanding of what we had than Frost? Or could Frost have encouraged the fans hoping the positivity could drive the team to be better than his expectations?

I don't know why Moos said what he did. Perhaps knowing the history of the programs past 20 years, he was just being proactive and setting low expectations to help fend off the rabid fan base should Frost encounter unexpected obstacles and produced undesirable results.
It is not uncommon for Coaches and AD's to say things that dont really mean anything.
There are myriad reasons why someone would underestimate or be overconfident.
You and others are free to wring your hands and speculate over every little thing they say.

And as for your thinly veiled comment about my views, you are again misreading me.

Aww....you poor thing. You do it too.

Other people on this board were judging Mike Riley off of one year (or less) and yet with a worse record in two years, Frost is getting more leeway. Heck, people are already building in excuses for us to go 6-6 next year or lose to Central Michigan. That's being inconsistent between the two coaches regardless of Frost's higher potential.

you seem really bothered by others' opinions and comments... :O O:
For someone who claims to support Frost, you seem to really be stumping for others to call for his head...


you said "Anyone who wouldn't give Riley the chance at four years should be calling for Frost right now. "
" Its homerism at its finest. "

You are simply speculating as to why people said what they said, and making generalizations and blanket statements. You completely disregard history, context, and other variables and see only inconsistency because you are projecting your simplistic world view onto others.

It's clear you don't want to actually discuss this objectively.
You havn't changed.

 

[Maverick]

Without his recruits? Well that's false, take a look at the number of Frost recruits that contributed at UCF.
I seriously can't believe this argument is occuring. Mike Riley is, always was, and always will be a mediocre coach. Scott Frost isnt.

Look at how many were not his recruits as well. His entire offensive line was inherited. So was one of their best defensive players (Griffin) and offensive players (Tre'quan Smith). Hence, not his recruits. Until the two-deep is entirely his recruits, he's gaining some benefit from the previous coach.

 

[Maverick]

Its interesting that you do the exact same thing and refuse to acknowledge it.
And by 'interesting', I mean 'not surprising'


I don't know why Moos said what he did. Perhaps knowing the history of the programs past 20 years, he was just being proactive and setting low expectations to help fend off the rabid fan base should Frost encounter unexpected obstacles and produced undesirable results.
It is not uncommon for Coaches and AD's to say things that dont really mean anything.
There are myriad reasons why someone would underestimate or be overconfident.
You and others are free to wring your hands and speculate over every little thing they say.



Aww....you poor thing. You do it too.


you seem really bothered by others' opinions and comments... :O O:
For someone who claims to support Frost, you seem to really be stumping for others to call for his head...


you said "Anyone who wouldn't give Riley the chance at four years should be calling for Frost right now. "
" Its homerism at its finest. "

You are simply speculating as to why people said what they said, and making generalizations and blanket statements. You completely disregard history, context, and other variables and see only inconsistency because you are projecting your simplistic world view onto others.

It's clear you don't want to actually discuss this objectively.
You havn't changed.

I am not stumping for Frost to be fired. I'm calling out the way the fans treated Riley. Again, reading what you want.

And I just pointed out you made a thinly veiled comment towards me to show recognition. Not sure why you think I'm upset about it.

As for history, context, yada yada yada...I am taking them into account, just not the way you want. I've gone over in depth why people shouldn't treat Frost as the Second Coming, though I do trust he will get it done. I've also explained why I find the treatment of Riley inconsistent to Frost, which you don't agree with. That's fine but you haven't made any convincing arguments the other way either other than "but upside" which I've already acknowledged.

 

[Red Dead Redemption]

USC and Alabama both tried to steal Riley away in his younger years. His coaching peers constantly described him as one of the best. I'll give you he never had the W-L record of an exceptional coach, but I'll trust the experts.

The bolded is key here.
"what have you done for me lately?"

As Matt Davison said, “Let’s face it, Mike Riley was a high risk hire. He had 3 losing seasons in the previous 5 and was coming off of a 5-7 season.”

"Experts"?
Other coaches are always going to build up other coaches. It's a fraternity. They each know how tenuous their job situations are, so they stick up for each other.

Riley's first 2 years at OSU were horrible.
Then he had 3 years in NFL: 1 avg, 1 bad, and 1 ugly
Meanwhile, Dennis Erickson was at OSU for 4 years (1 great, 2 avg, 1 bad)
Then MR came back

MR's last 11 years at OSU, after he took over after Dennis Erickson left (8-5 in 2002):
- It's a continuous downward trend for 3 years (ending with a losing season),
- then a blip up (10-4, his best season ever),
- then 4 years of steady downward (last 2 are losing seasons),
- then only a Bo-sized blip up,
- then 2 more years steady downward (last one a losing season),
- then his debacle at NU

MR's career at OSU was mostly avg/bad, with only a couple of blips up.
Most years he was trending downward. It seems the good years were the anomalies.

Frost career as an assistant and HC was stellar and trending up prior to NU

As I've said before, we just don't have enough evidence on Frost. He could be the next Chizik as easily as he could be the next Saban. He has almost zero experience as HC and he inherited a unique situation at UCF that may have inflated his success. I still think he is successful but I'm not going to spin the decision as a clear upgrade either. We ultimately took a chance on an unproven coach with one fantastic season because he played here.

LOL. you seem to be projecting again. Why do you continue to marginalize his experiences and history?

No matter how you try to spin it, Frost brought WAY more potential than Riley, who never should have even been here in the first place.

Stop generalizing people who give Frost a long runway simply as 'homers'.
You are being intellectually dishonest.