Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Tell me if I'm off base with this thinking.

[Scott]

We all talked about Callahan's offense being to complex. Now we are saying the same about Bo's. I see true freshman and 2nd year players on other teams getting quality snaps and we can't get a guy who has been in the system 3-5 years to understand Bo's system.
I think "why can't we do that? Is our system to complicated for these kids? Is this the same of Callahan? We are in big trouble because if that is the case, as we know how that turned out!"

Then I think, that if that is the case how could have Bo have come in here in 2003 and turned things around so quickly. And then again when he got here in 2008?

Now I know what the knee jerk reaction is "we don't have the talent now that we did when Bo showed up here at those times". I'll be honest, I love football as much as the next American male, but I can't sit here and tell you that we do or do not have as good of talent now as we have had in the past. They all look like stud players to me.

My thought is that maybe Bo came in both times and realized that he did not have guys in the system for years before. To compensate for 2-4 years of coaching in their system, he "dumbed" his system down. I don't mean he dumbed it down because his played were dumb, but he faced facts and realized that he he could not train guys in 1 year what he would usually take 2-4 years to learn.

Now he has finally been here long enough to teach his guys all of his system not just the "dumbed down version" I hate that phrase so maybe a better way of putting it would be the "short term version" of his defense.

Do any of you with knowledge know if that may be the case, and if so, why not go back to the new guy version. Obviously it appears that he has done better when he has been here for the short term, and "appears" to have not been efficient when he has been here for 4-5 years.

Just has been rattling around in brain for a few days so somebody tell me if I nuts or not. It's ok if you tell me I am nuts, I'm used to it.

 

[PaperIsDead]

We all talked about Callahan's offense being to complex. Now we are saying the same about Bo's. I see true freshman and 2nd year players on other teams getting quality snaps and we can't get a guy who has been in the system 3-5 years to understand Bo's system.
I think "why can't we do that? Is our system to complicated for these kids? Is this the same of Callahan? We are in big trouble because if that is the case, as we know how that turned out!"

Then I think, that if that is the case how could have Bo have come in here in 2003 and turned things around so quickly. And then again when he got here in 2008?

Now I know what the knee jerk reaction is "we don't have the talent now that we did when Bo showed up here at those times". I'll be honest, I love football as much as the next American male, but I can't sit here and tell you that we do or do not have as good of talent now as we have had in the past. They all look like stud players to me.

My thought is that maybe Bo came in both times and realized that he did not have guys in the system for years before. To compensate for 2-4 years of coaching in their system, he "dumbed" his system down. I don't mean he dumbed it down because his played were dumb, but he faced facts and realized that he he could not train guys in 1 year what he would usually take 2-4 years to learn.

Now he has finally been here long enough to teach his guys all of his system not just the "dumbed down version" I hate that phrase so maybe a better way of putting it would be the "short term version" of his defense.

Do any of you with knowledge know if that may be the case, and if so, why not go back to the new guy version. Obviously it appears that he has done better when he has been here for the short term, and "appears" to have not been efficient when he has been here for 4-5 years.

Just has been rattling around in brain for a few days so somebody tell me if I nuts or not. It's ok if you tell me I am nuts, I'm used to it.

I'm no expert on X's and O's, so I'll leave that part to somebody else to tackle. But I will point out that our defensive talent is pretty consistently pointed to as being an area of weakness. On Big Red Wrapup tonight, for example, to a man the hosts and guests said the defensive talent is just not there.

I hate the talent explanation, because I feel like it's unfair to the guys who WE RECRUITED to come here. However, at the same time I can't name but a couple defenders who I'm confident will be out there going 100% and making plays.

I'm not in the camp that's whining about Pelini's recruiting. I think that's an area in particular where a coach will evolve his approach, and I believe we have been seeing improvement over the past couple years. The first two years we did seem to have more than our share of misses.

But to answer your question, I'm not convinced the defense is too complicated- look at what Lavonte David did in his first year of it.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

Bo inherited "out of this world" defensive talent in 2003 and 2008, he has not recruited out of this world talent. Believe it or not 1+1 does equal 2 here.

 

[DBP]

I have no real idea but a few things I think I notice:
First:
1.) I am not a judge of football talent but on the other hand it is all relative to the team you are playing in a given week. To me, it seems like our DB's are always a step slow or too late and are lucky to get a hand on a pass. I can envision our DB's as recently as 3 years ago picking some of these passes off. On the rare occasion our DB is positioned for an int. they either don't look for it or drop it. 2.) It seems like our LB's are slow and out of position alot. 3.) The DL doesn't seem to get consistent pressure on QB's but they do have some good moments here asn there. I keep flashing back to the B Miller run late in the 1st half followed by Bo yelling an Ankrah. My guess is that he was to stay outside and force B Miller back to the center of the field which didn't happen and then I wondered why absolutely no one else was anywhere near enough to pursue B Miller.

Second:
I don't know if Bo's D is too complicated or if the personnel don't fit it. I do know that every time I see him yelling at a player on the sideline (not that often really) it makes me think they didn't do their job. Are they incapable of doing the job because they aren't smart enough to grasp it or is it because they aren't athletic enough? With BC, I flash back S Miss beating us at home when we had the lead most of the game. He just kept having Dailey throw the ball with the lead when we probably could've run it down their throats and won the game (and been bowl eligible that season). I type all of that to pose that maybe Bo simply isn't maximizing the talent of the players he has relative to the teams NU is playing (except the very traditional or overmatched ones)?

No idea really, just some thoughts.

 

[DBP]

...also, if our defensive players are thinking too much (like they aren't sure what they are supposed to do) instead of reacting...they will always be a step slow unless we play an overmatched or vanilla team.

 

[johnhoie]

I'll go with the poor talent answer. That's not throwing players under the bus. They seem to be trying hard; they're just not very good.
i do disagree about the defensive backs. They look good to me, and our defensive passing stats back that up. But the front seven looks slow and unathletic, and the defensive rushing stats back that up.
Good schemes might "hide" a player or two, but you can't scheme your way around a weak d-line.

 

[bilsker]

I think it's QUITE possible that the players are overcoached. The idea that you need to know everyone else's responsibility seems good in theory...but these guys get 20 hours a week.

And it has been said quite often that this defense is very complicated. And yes...that used to be a bad thing a few years ago.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

I think it's QUITE possible that the players are overcoached. The idea that you need to know everyone else's responsibility seems good in theory...but these guys get 20 hours a week.

And it has been said quite often that this defense is very complicated. And yes...that used to be a bad thing a few years ago.

I think you are correct, that they are overcoached and the defense is too complex, but THAT is not why his early defenses were good and the latter defenses are not as good. I think the reason for that is talent, I'm confident that all of his defenses have been overcoached and too complex...though in 2003 his defense might not have reached maximum complexity yet as he was new to college football. The teams with great talent can make up for the poor coaching.

 

[coherbie]

Bo inherited "out of this world" defensive talent in 2003 and 2008, he has not recruited out of this world talent. Believe it or not 1+1 does equal 2 here.

I'll have what you're having.... seriously? Pat Ricketts at CB?

are you sure the company line is that FS was recruiting "out of this world" talent?

debate talent all you want, the results in both '03 & '08 were immediate improvement in win totals (+3 & +4)

 

[BubbaGene]

I'll have what you're having.... seriously? Pat Ricketts at CB?

are you sure the company line is that FS was recruiting "out of this world" talent?

debate talent all you want, the results in both '03 & '08 were immediate improvement in win totals (+3 & +4)

Perhaps the talent back in '03 only seems "out of this world"......particularly when compared to today's.

 

[wcbsas]

I'll have what you're having.... seriously? Pat Ricketts at CB?

are you sure the company line is that FS was recruiting "out of this world" talent?

debate talent all you want, the results in both '03 & '08 were immediate improvement in win totals (+3 & +4)

Price Amukamara, Ndamukong Suh, Jared Crick, Eric Hagg, Ty Steinkuhler, Zach Potter, Pierre Allen, Alfonzo Dennard, Phillip Dillard ... pretty good list of players he inherited in 2008. Which one of these would you not want on this year's team?

Benard Thomas, Adam Carricker, Stewart Bradley, Patrtick Kabongo, Barrett Ruud, TJ Hollowell, Demorrio Williams, Daniel and Josh Bullocks, Fabian Washington, Titus Adms ... pretty good list of players he inherited in 2003. Which of these would you not want on this year's team?

An argument can be made that Bo Pelini has not recruited defensive players very well during his 5 year tenure as coach ... at least when compared to Solich and Callahan.

 

[KleinTxHusker]

I'll have what you're having.... seriously? Pat Ricketts at CB?

are you sure the company line is that FS was recruiting "out of this world" talent?

debate talent all you want, the results in both '03 & '08 were immediate improvement in win totals (+3 & +4)

Out of this world is hyperbole...

In 2003 he had the Bullocks brothers at Safety... LeKevin Smith at DT... Kabongo was a serviceable DT... TJ Hollowell, Demorrio Williams and Barrett Ruud were at LB,... Bernard Thomas was respectable at DE... Carricker and Jay Moore were redshirt Freshman on the roster and contributed... also on the roster was Stewart Bradley...

I think most of those players are as good or better than what we have on our team today...

 

[Scott]

Ok, so lets say that the talent was that much better in the past. Do you think that they were that much smarter that they could grasp Bo's system that much easier then the players we have on this team now? I understand that physical ablility will cover/make up for mistakes, but do you think that the players in the past had so much more ability to make up for 3-4 years of learning the system. It's not like we are talking about a whole bunch of All-Americans. They were good (some even great - or close to it) players.

I guess I'm asking that if Bo came in and this was his first year with these players, would we be that much worse than we are now? I think that he would have made these players play better by making a his scheme more efficent (simpler).

 

[BubbaGene]

Out of this world is hyperbole...

In 2003 he had the Bullocks brothers at Safety... LeKevin Smith at DT... Kabongo was a serviceable DT... TJ Hollowell, Demorrio Williams and Barrett Ruud were at LB,... Bernard Thomas was respectable at DE... Carricker and Jay Moore were redshirt Freshman on the roster and contributed... also on the roster was Stewart Bradley...

I think most of those players are as good or better than what we have on our team today...

I agree. I'll take any of those guys in '03.... to start on this year's team.

This kind of sums it up for me. According to many around here, our best defensive lineman is actually our best offensive tackle.

 

[denisonred]

I think one important fact is being overlooked here. If our talent is as lacking as everyone is posting why not play the younger players who are more talented? The answer always is they do not know the defense, "bingo". Why is it other teams can play first and second year players and be successful? Could it just be maybe our defense is too complex? Or it maybe we need to simply to fit the personnel we have? If the starters cannot get the job done and the freshman have the athletic ability and not the knowledge of the system maybe we need to refine the system.