Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Tell me if I'm off base with this thinking.

[BubbaGene]

I think one important fact is being overlooked here. If our talent is as lacking as everyone is posting why not play the younger players who are more talented? The answer always is they do not know the defense, "bingo". Why is it other teams can play first and second year players and be successful? Could it just be maybe our defense is too complex? Or it maybe we need to simply to fit the personnel we have? If the starters cannot get the job done and the freshman have the athletic ability and not the knowledge of the system maybe we need to refine the system.

No one has overlooked this. It's the first couple sentences of the thread, basically.

 

[DBP]

Ok, so lets say that the talent was that much better in the past. Do you think that they were that much smarter that they could grasp Bo's system that much easier then the players we have on this team now? I understand that physical ablility will cover/make up for mistakes, but do you think that the players in the past had so much more ability to make up for 3-4 years of learning the system. It's not like we are talking about a whole bunch of All-Americans. They were good (some even great - or close to it) players.

I guess I'm asking that if Bo came in and this was his first year with these players, would we be that much worse than we are now? I think that he would have made these players play better by making a his scheme more efficent (simpler).

I think this leads to the answer of the question. The players today are not any less intelligent as a group than the players from Bo's first years. At least I don't suspect that is an issue. Assuming the D complexity hasn't changed much during Bo's tenure, it is likely a mix of our talent is not as good, the BCS conference opponents on average have better talent than who we were playing before or the coaching/game planning has slipped.

 

[Bo Pelinis Gum]

Its interesting people bring up talent as an issue. Im also one whos said/thinks our lack of talent is an issue, or lack of recruiting even more than talent on the defensive side of the ball.

But when you look at our defense, in particular the front seven, its littered with kids who were all pretty highly ranked coming out of highschool.

Eric Marin - 3 star
Chase Rome - 4 star
Baker Steinkuhler - 5 star
Jason Ankrah - 4star
Cameron Meredith - 3 star
Alonzo Whaley - 3 star
Will Compton - 4 star

Thats primarily our front seven. Some other guys come in in different situations, but all are 3 star or better guys. But at any given time you could have all 4 stars and a five star across the line.

Youd think we had all NR guys, or 3 star cap, but all of these guys were pretty highly rated coming out of highschool.

I think this plays into the "stars arent everything" talk, but its interesting to me that we have some guys from a recruiting standpoint that are good pick ups, yet we struggle on D at times.

(p.s. I had no idea Kyler Reed was a LB recruit. Its unfortunate hes not still there as I think hed be a stud. Hes IMO the most under-utilized player on our team. Hes got the speed and the size to be a dang good LB.)

 

[wcbsas]

I think one important fact is being overlooked here. If our talent is as lacking as everyone is posting why not play the younger players who are more talented? The answer always is they do not know the defense, "bingo". Why is it other teams can play first and second year players and be successful? Could it just be maybe our defense is too complex? Or it maybe we need to simply to fit the personnel we have? If the starters cannot get the job done and the freshman have the athletic ability and not the knowledge of the system maybe we need to refine the system.

The issue is the "system" in my opinion is complex as BP et al try and cover up a lack of talent by having a more complex system.

You've got younger, possibly more athletic talent but you can not simply fold them into the "system" as it is too complex.
You can't dumb down the "system" as mid-season changes like this prove to be difficult.

So now you have to run with the less talented athletes and more complicated system.

 

[wcbsas]

Its interesting people bring up talent as an issue. Im also one whos said/thinks our lack of talent is an issue, or lack of recruiting even more than talent on the defensive side of the ball.

But when you look at our defense, in particular the front seven, its littered with kids who were all pretty highly ranked coming out of highschool.

Eric Marin - 3 star
Chase Rome - 4 star
Baker Steinkuhler - 5 star
Jason Ankrah - 4star
Cameron Meredith - 3 star
Alonzo Whaley - 3 star
Will Compton - 4 star

Thats primarily our front seven. Some other guys come in in different situations, but all are 3 star or better guys. But at any given time you could have all 4 stars and a five star across the line.

Youd think we had all NR guys, or 3 star cap, but all of these guys were pretty highly rated coming out of highschool.

I think this plays into the "stars arent everything" talk, but its interesting to me that we have some guys from a recruiting standpoint that are good pick ups, yet we struggle on D at times.

(p.s. I had no idea Kyler Reed was a LB recruit. Its unfortunate hes not still there as I think hed be a stud. Hes IMO the most under-utilized player on our team. Hes got the speed and the size to be a dang good LB.)

Baker is a 5-star OFFENSIVE tackle recruit. I'm not sure a 5-star o-lineman ranking translates into a 5-star d-lineman ranking.

That move alone is nearly criminal ... LTackle would have been locked down for 4 years if BS were allowed to remain on the o-line!

 

[Bluto]

I just don't believe the talent "excuse".

When teams such as Kansas St., Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Ohio, and TCU are ranked in the top 25, it surely isn't because they are out-recruiting Nebraska.

It seems like there must be some other reason. It could, I suppose be strength of schedule, but that doesn't really sit well either.

 

[huskrthill]

I don't think that the defense is too complicated. I've pointed out before that players are generally in the right place to make a play, but they can't seem to finish.

I think that we have good players at most positions on defense, but right now we're lacking GREAT players at any level. We don't have a lockdown corner, we don't have a headhunter/ballhawk at safety, we don't have a standout linebacker, we don't have a dominant run stopper on the DL, and we don't have a premier pass rusher at DE.

None of our defensive starters suck. In fact, they're pretty good football players. But you'd be surprised how much better a cornerback would look if he had an outstanding safety to help over the top. If we got consistent pressure on a QB from our front four, our linebackers wouldn't have to cover receivers 30 yards down field.

We're not 11 guys away from being a good defense - more like just one or two. Adding just one or two true star players would make everyone else look that much better. Maybe that was going to be Seisay before he got hurt? Or maybe Zaire Anderson was going to step up before he got hurt? Maybe it'll be a guy like Harvey Jackson or Corey Cooper or David Santos, and they're still a year away. I don't know, but we don't suck up and down the board.

 

[Bo Pelinis Gum]

Baker is a 5-star OFFENSIVE tackle recruit. I'm not sure a 5-star o-lineman ranking translates into a 5-star d-lineman ranking.

That move alone is nearly criminal ... LTackle would have been locked down for 4 years if BS were allowed to remain on the o-line!

I agree with you 100%. Baker at worst is a two time all conference player going into this year. Ive said it since day one, hes too tall to be a good d-lineman. You look at his best game of his career, and he was going against someone taller than him. Most of the time hes taller than who hes lined up against. Leverage is critical in the trenches, and if you cant get it, youll never be effective. Baker struggles to get low pad, and if he does, it doenst take too long before hes stood up and then loses leverage.

Baker was a good d-lineman in highschool though. He schooled Robinson every time they played each other.

 

[Bo Pelinis Gum]

I don't think that the defense is too complicated. I've pointed out before that players are generally in the right place to make a play, but they can't seem to finish.

I think that we have good players at most positions on defense, but right now we're lacking GREAT players at any level. We don't have a lockdown corner, we don't have a headhunter/ballhawk at safety, we don't have a standout linebacker, we don't have a dominant run stopper on the DL, and we don't have a premier pass rusher at DE.

None of our defensive starters suck. In fact, they're pretty good football players. But you'd be surprised how much better a cornerback would look if he had an outstanding safety to help over the top. If we got consistent pressure on a QB from our front four, our linebackers wouldn't have to cover receivers 30 yards down field.

We're not 11 guys away from being a good defense - more like just one or two. Adding just one or two true star players would make everyone else look that much better. Maybe that was going to be Seisay before he got hurt? Or maybe Zaire Anderson was going to step up before he got hurt? Maybe it'll be a guy like Harvey Jackson or Corey Cooper or David Santos, and they're still a year away. I don't know, but we don't suck up and down the board.

Excellent points, I think holes are exposed a lot more on the defensive side of the ball than on the offensive. And right now, theres a couple holes that if we had them covered, wed be significantly better.

 

[KleinTxHusker]

I agree. I'll take any of those guys in '03.... to start on this year's team.

This kind of sums it up for me. According to many around here, our best defensive lineman is actually our best offensive tackle.

I am starting to think that has to be true...

I only got through our first tOSU series (I didn't catch the game until late in the second Q and just started watching the tape last night) and saw that Qvale totally whiffed on a PassPro "blocking" "attempt" (I have previously called out Sirles on that) getting TMart creamed while holding the ball... I know later in the game Sirles whiffed with the same result... And ARod is playing right tackle which tells us he isn't as good as the other two... It will be interesting to see how Moore does at Florida given he was behind Qvale...

 

[Bo Pelinis Gum]

I am starting to think that has to be true...

I only got through our first tOSU series (I didn't catch the game until late in the second Q and just started watching the tape last night) and saw that Qvale totally whiffed on a PassPro "blocking" "attempt" (I have previously called out Sirles on that) getting TMart creamed while holding the ball... I know later in the game Sirles whiffed with the same result... And ARod is playing right tackle which tells us he isn't as good as the other two... It will be interesting to see how Moore does at Florida given he was behind Qvale...

We have a bunch of straight ahead run blockers that are very very average in pass pro. Its going to happen more in the weeks to come...

 

[PaperIsDead]

I don't think that the defense is too complicated. I've pointed out before that players are generally in the right place to make a play, but they can't seem to finish.

I think that we have good players at most positions on defense, but right now we're lacking GREAT players at any level. We don't have a lockdown corner, we don't have a headhunter/ballhawk at safety, we don't have a standout linebacker, we don't have a dominant run stopper on the DL, and we don't have a premier pass rusher at DE.

None of our defensive starters suck. In fact, they're pretty good football players. But you'd be surprised how much better a cornerback would look if he had an outstanding safety to help over the top. If we got consistent pressure on a QB from our front four, our linebackers wouldn't have to cover receivers 30 yards down field.

We're not 11 guys away from being a good defense - more like just one or two. Adding just one or two true star players would make everyone else look that much better. Maybe that was going to be Seisay before he got hurt? Or maybe Zaire Anderson was going to step up before he got hurt? Maybe it'll be a guy like Harvey Jackson or Corey Cooper or David Santos, and they're still a year away. I don't know, but we don't suck up and down the board.

Good post, Thill, and great points. So if it is not purely a talent problem nor a too-complex scheme problem, perhaps it is what Sam McKewon has referred to, and did again in his chat today: Maybe the players are trying too hard to avoid mistakes and as a result aren't playing fast or loose. The result of which is that players look slow (untalented) and the defense looks ineffective (too complicated). Thoughts?

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

Good post, Thill, and great points. So if it is not purely a talent problem nor a too-complex scheme problem, perhaps it is what Sam McKewon has referred to, and did again in his chat today: Maybe the players are trying too hard to avoid mistakes and as a result aren't playing fast or loose. The result of which is that players look slow (untalented) and the defense looks ineffective (too complicated). Thoughts?

So firey, snarling Bo has been fielding a bunch of timid kittens lately? Sure...just one more excuse for the books.

Think Occam's razor, there you'll find the real answer.

 

[PaperIsDead]

...

Intersting also regarding the teams lack of fire is that their record since the 2010 Texas A&M game, after which Bo was publicly dressed-down, is a miserable 14-8 (only 8-8 if you throw out the non-bcs gimme wins). No point in rehashing Bo's behavior then, but he has been much "calmer" on the sidelines since. Wonder if this is near the root of the problem.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

Intersting also regarding the teams lack of fire is that their record since the 2010 Texas A&M game, after which Bo was publicly dressed-down, is a miserable 14-8 (only 8-8 if you throw out the non-bcs gimme wins). No point in rehashing Bo's behavior then, but he has been much "calmer" on the sidelines since. Wonder if this is near the root of the problem.

So you think Harvey told Bo that he can't get mad and yell in the locker room, or at practice, or on the bus to the stadium, or anywhere? Bo's been neutered? The only way to fire up the team is to act childish during the game? And, what...we gave the team estrogen shots or something? Sorry, not buying that excuse, but I'll add it to the list.