Strength and Conditioning Discussion

[ShortSideOption]

The twins had great combine numbers, and both are over 300 lbs. Doesn’t that reflect on our S&C?

The Twins got slower.

That said, if we get kid four star defensive linemen that can do standing backflips and qualifying for Olympic Trials out of high school, if we don't get them drafted there were serious issues.

 

[SSM]

Metabolic circuit is done twice a week, we always did Tuesday and Friday with explosive work done Monday and Thursday.

A1 (light day) on Tuesday
A2 (Heavy day) on Friday

Following week

A1 (light day) is A2 weights from last week
A2 (heavier day)

And this is done for normally 4-6 weeks

Typically done first thing in the morning while your brain isn’t awake enough to realize how much pain you’re going through.

Also to your point of not being a fan - the metabolic circuit serves 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, and that’s body composition. Increase muscle mass + decrease bodyfat. Once Players hit their goal weight and bf % you yank them off and put them into a different group.

To ***’s point, its brutal, but it absolutely works. First time I could ever see my abs was after 4 weeks on the metabolic circuit

Fair enough and I don’t doubt it produces the results you describe. If improved body composition is the goal for a particular athlete then I don’t doubt it is as good as any. It’s used for 4 to 6 weeks to improve body composition, I really don’t take issue with it.

Btw....Another former player I take it. Sweet!

What exercises make up the explosive work done on Monday and Thursdays?

You and I are on the same page. HuskerPower wasn't the first thing in the histroy of the earth to get it completely right the first time, there have been some great advancements and research the past 30 years. Not to mention the game has changed (not in a phone booth anymore).

I was trying to figure out who would be good tests, and I almost think the entire OL class from 2019 is one. I basically came to the conclusion that if they made Wandale Robinson and Luke McCaffrey into what happened to Martinez, i'd be officially done. But with Covid that's helped.

I have some philosophical differences with Iowa and Dobson, but I can't deny what Iowa does to develop guys. I think their coach is just so in-tune with what Ferentz is trying to do that he has it dialed in to a T. I actually preferred Mark Phlipps method, that these kids are 18-22 years old and we just need to stay out of their way. Give them a workout plan and motivate them, and as long as you have them eating right, they are going to develop. Sadly, Riley and MP didn't have much say so it didn't look close to what either of them wanted.

Yeah, certainly been some advancements in past 30 years....in about everything! Funny, I was thinking the same thing with Wandale...if he can't cut and move the same, I was going to be concerned. That guy doesn't make people miss, he makes people look inept with his abilities and these are D1 athletes, not backyard superheros. If he loses those abilities, I'd be quickly rethinking my whole philosophy if I were in charge. I think there are a number of guys to watch and o-line is a good group to observe. I singled out the SD kid because his Dad has is an experienced power lifter and the kid moves some serious weight with decent form. His max strength is not an issue. So, making him even quicker, more agile and more explosive seems like a logical goal I'd have. Many of the o-line we recruit appears that they need the added muscle / strength. For me, from afar, it will be harder to gauge those types of guys than the SD kid as he comes in with the strength already intact. I just hope we don't create giant stiffs that lose the traits that caused us to recruit them in the first place. If you can't turn around in a car to visit with somebody in the back seat, you certainly are not going to move around effectively and make tackles or block somebody on the move.

Iowa, yeah...pretty sure they had some Rhabdo issues awhile back too. Heard rumor that they were doing obscene amounts of walking barbell lunges. About that time, a supplement with 1,3 DMAA was popular before being banned (and it should be banned). We never seem to hear the whole story, but I often wonder if that contributed to that issue. I don't really know their whole philosophy, so much like discussing NU for me, it's hard to really make educated comments and have strong opinions one way or another. I was just curious about Dobson, there were snippets of things that I'd hear and see that I liked, but never really knew the extent of the training philosophy. I thought it was interesting b/c Will Compton mentioned he still trains with Dobson and has turned in a nice, somewhat unexpected, NFL career.

Mark P. At first I was pumped about Mark P, but then it seemed that he really didn't get to run the program his way, so I quit even wondering about what he wanted to do. As you said, he didn't get to run it his way. Get the feeling if he wrote a book, we would see just how much influence the former AD exerted over football which is sad. I think, and *** has said this, the great thing about Frost/Duval is that Duval is in charge and Frost trusts him. Heck, that statement alone is immense improvement and reason for hope. We've seen what disconnected leadership does, I'd like to give connected leadership a shot. They may not have the direction down to the minutes and seconds yet, but they appear to all be headed in the same direction...which is more than than the last administration allowed for.

Anyone know where Mark P is now?


Thanks all for commenting back. Appreciate it.

 

[LarstheRed]

The Twins got slower.

That said, if we get kid four star defensive linemen that can do standing backflips and qualifying for Olympic Trials out of high school, if we don't get them drafted there were serious issues.

To be fair, being a great athlete doesn’t always translate to being a great football player. Alex Davis comes to mind. What was their best 40 times, and when did they post them? They obviously wow’d the folks at the combined with their current times.

 

[NUinID]

To be fair, being a great athlete doesn’t always translate to being a great football player. Alex Davis comes to mind. What was their best 40 times, and when did they post them? They obviously wow’d the folks at the combined with their current times.

Curtis Cotton also comes to mind. I always remember him testing phenomenally on the index, but he never climbed any higher than as a back up and special teams player.

 

[NUinID]

To be fair, being a great athlete doesn’t always translate to being a great football player. Alex Davis comes to mind. What was their best 40 times, and when did they post them? They obviously wow’d the folks at the combined with their current times.

I am trying to stay out of this thread. I really can't say much about what is going on in the wt room at Nebraska. I know *** doesn't like it and he and I have discussed that before, but I really can't recall *** ever being real excited about what is going on in the wt room clear back to the Callahan days.

 

[ShortSideOption]

Fair enough and I don’t doubt it produces the results you describe. If improved body composition is the goal for a particular athlete then I don’t doubt it is as good as any. It’s used for 4 to 6 weeks to improve body composition, I really don’t take issue with it.

Btw....Another former player I take it. Sweet!

What exercises make up the explosive work done on Monday and Thursdays?


Yeah, certainly been some advancements in past 30 years....in about everything! Funny, I was thinking the same thing with Wandale...if he can't cut and move the same, I was going to be concerned. That guy doesn't make people miss, he makes people look inept with his abilities and these are D1 athletes, not backyard superheros. If he loses those abilities, I'd be quickly rethinking my whole philosophy if I were in charge. I think there are a number of guys to watch and o-line is a good group to observe. I singled out the SD kid because his Dad has is an experienced power lifter and the kid moves some serious weight with decent form. His max strength is not an issue. So, making him even quicker, more agile and more explosive seems like a logical goal I'd have. Many of the o-line we recruit appears that they need the added muscle / strength. For me, from afar, it will be harder to gauge those types of guys than the SD kid as he comes in with the strength already intact. I just hope we don't create giant stiffs that lose the traits that caused us to recruit them in the first place. If you can't turn around in a car to visit with somebody in the back seat, you certainly are not going to move around effectively and make tackles or block somebody on the move.

Iowa, yeah...pretty sure they had some Rhabdo issues awhile back too. Heard rumor that they were doing obscene amounts of walking barbell lunges. About that time, a supplement with 1,3 DMAA was popular before being banned (and it should be banned). We never seem to hear the whole story, but I often wonder if that contributed to that issue. I don't really know their whole philosophy, so much like discussing NU for me, it's hard to really make educated comments and have strong opinions one way or another. I was just curious about Dobson, there were snippets of things that I'd hear and see that I liked, but never really knew the extent of the training philosophy. I thought it was interesting b/c Will Compton mentioned he still trains with Dobson and has turned in a nice, somewhat unexpected, NFL career.

Mark P. At first I was pumped about Mark P, but then it seemed that he really didn't get to run the program his way, so I quit even wondering about what he wanted to do. As you said, he didn't get to run it his way. Get the feeling if he wrote a book, we would see just how much influence the former AD exerted over football which is sad. I think, and *** has said this, the great thing about Frost/Duval is that Duval is in charge and Frost trusts him. Heck, that statement alone is immense improvement and reason for hope. We've seen what disconnected leadership does, I'd like to give connected leadership a shot. They may not have the direction down to the minutes and seconds yet, but they appear to all be headed in the same direction...which is more than than the last administration allowed for.

Anyone know where Mark P is now?


Thanks all for commenting back. Appreciate it.

Mark went back to USC for a year then went up to work with Ivan Lewis for the Seahawks. Lewis was S&C coach under Carroll at USC and then I think he went to Univ of Washington for a few years before being hired by PC again.

I'll never forget after MP was let go the media just begging for a statement from everyone. "Go Big Red baby" as he got in his car and left. Dude hated drama and just grinded. Shortly after that I was on campus at USC and he was there and it was funny to discuss some of the things that were being said. "Ya, we didn't squat" as he rolled his eyes... "do people really think football programs just wouldn't squat? That's why I don't do social media."

 

[ShortSideOption]

To be fair, being a great athlete doesn’t always translate to being a great football player. Alex Davis comes to mind. What was their best 40 times, and when did they post them? They obviously wow’d the folks at the combined with their current times.

Ya, I get taking chances on kids like Alex Davis when you are piecing together a transition class. There's definitely success stories about kids starting to figure out football that have the athletic foundation and just didn't play enough like other kids. My friend that is at an OPS school always talks about how they sometimes have to take their licks on lower levels because some of the western Omaha schools have kids that have been playing for years and they are starting a lot of kids fresh. By the time they play for a while the gap closes in a hurry. I actually always thought if you had 3 spots open somewhere, you take the local kid, the four star stud from wherever, then go find the Avery Moss or Alex Davis type to see if you can catch some lightning in a bottle. I think one year Ron Brown pulled in Aaron Green (5 star), Braylon Heard (4 star), and Ameer Abdullah was the "worst" as a 3 star. I think there's a little discrepancy when Heard actually showed up, but it's tough to do that year in and year out.

The Davis twins are freaks. I'll maintain that what happened with them having 3 defensive coordinators and 4 defensive line coaches is one of the biggest missed opportunities we've had. If we get four star DL that are getting Penn State offers and doing the things those guys did athletically off the field, we can't screw that up again.

The Davis twins have 40s out there to go get, not sure I really care to go find them again, but they kept their speed for a bit and then it dropped. It's actually interesting that both of their times dropped basically the same amount. You are going to lose some speed when you try to gain weight for sure, but I don't think them blowing up the combine is an indication of how good Mark Philip or Zach Duval is, I think we just got in some unreal dudes. For example, Khalil came to Nebraska and finished 3rd at the B1G championships as a true freshman in 2016. That's pretty unheard of, typically it takes throwers some time to get adjusted. But Khalil was on the awards stand instantly.

 

[ShortSideOption]

I am trying to stay out of this thread. I really can't say much about what is going on in the wt room at Nebraska. I know *** doesn't like it and he and I have discussed that before, but I really can't recall *** ever being real excited about what is going on in the wt room clear back to the Callahan days.

I liked what Mark Philipp wanted to do, didn't like what he was told he could or couldn't do. Whether he could have exectued what his vision was we will never know.

I've rattled off about a dozen names of coaches or places that I think are doing it right. Heck, I even started a thread about one of them and you told me "it was a way to take a shot at Duval." I think there are things this staff does well and have even talked about them. People take my critiques as me stating I don't like the staff, but when I post positives about the staff it's not taken as me endorsing the staff. Message boards are an interesting place.

 

[djlhuskerfan]

I liked what Mark Philipp wanted to do, didn't like what he was told he could or couldn't do. Whether he could have exectued what his vision was we will never know.

I've rattled off about a dozen names of coaches or places that I think are doing it right. Heck, I even started a thread about one of them and you told me "it was a way to take a shot at Duval." I think there are things this staff does well and have even talked about them. People take my critiques as me stating I don't like the staff, but when I post positives about the staff it's not taken as me endorsing the staff. Message boards are an interesting place.

Sounds like you have some of same problems a certain guy in DC does lol!

 

[NUinID]

I liked what Mark Philipp wanted to do, didn't like what he was told he could or couldn't do. I've rattled off about a dozen names of coaches or places that I think are doing it right. Heck, I even started a thread about one of them and you told me it was a way to take a shot at Duval.

You are speaking about the former Indiana S&C coach that went to Alabama I believe, and I don't recall ever specifically saying it was a shot at Duval. We have discussed this many times. You don't like what Duval is doing and that is fine. I am not privy to what is going on in the wt room. As you said in your first post of this thread, if you ask 100 strength coaches you will get a 100 different answers. You just don't agree with Duval's answers.

What is he doing differently now than what he did at UCF or is he doing anything different? He seemed to have some success building football players at UCF. If Duval is so wrong in your mind, how come Frost can't see it? Or is it just hiring his buddy?

You just hammer away at this stuff. You seem like you work in this industry. You know way too much to be a casual observer.

 

[ShortSideOption]

You are speaking about the former Indiana S&C coach that went to Alabama I believe, and I don't recall ever specifically saying it was a shot at Duval. We have discussed this many times. You don't like what Duval is doing and that is fine. I am not privy to what is going on in the wt room. As you said in your first post of this thread, if you ask 100 strength coaches you will get a 100 different answers. You just don't agree with Duval's answers.

What is he doing differently now than what he did at UCF or is he doing anything different? He seemed to have some success building football players at UCF. If Duval is so wrong in your mind, how come Frost can't see it? Or is it just hiring his buddy?

You just hammer away at this stuff. You seem like you work in this industry. You know way too much to be a casual observer.

I guess I was referencing this quote from you, if I am misreading, my apologies:

*** this is just another passive aggressive thread about not not liking Duval's S&C program.

I am not sure what they did down in Orlando. Would assume much of the same, i know they did the circuit workout down there. I don't know what they did down there that produced 13-0 in year 2, but couldn't produce similar in Lincoln. I am assuming they are doing the same things, would be somewhat foolish to change things up after success like that.

I've brought up that saying "merging Oregon speed with Husker Power" leaves you with about 3 people you can hire to do Husker Power. I think Duval and Frost are friends, but I in no way want to relay that Frost just hired because of that. I think Frost took a chance on Duval when bringing him to Orlando. Before getting to UCF, Duval had 5 losing seasons out of 6 attempts and had only been hired/recommended by former Nebraska coaches/players. But could any of us here fault Frost for thinking he had the best in the business after 2017? In fact it would be incredibly warranted if people were to be upset if he didn't keep him. But I do think 13-0 is skewing our thoughts on what we do a bit. And again to reiterate, I think we are changing a few things not only in the weight room but with the football staff. I think Frost knew something was going wrong, he made changes (not necessarily speaking to S&C). And let's be honest, even if he saw S&C issues in 2019 on the field, what could he (or any coach) do about that right now?

I just don't think i'm going out on too far of a limb or speaking out of place when this site has been around since 2000 or so and we haven't won a conference title this century. Even though I have been early saying when I do or don't like things that I see, with hindsight they've pretty much came to fruition. We are underachieving and losing to teams with recruits that would come to Lincoln in a heartbeat. That's not a "recruiting sites getting rankings wrong" or anything else the past 20 years, that's lack of development in Lincoln.

 

[LurkSker44]

I hope whatever they're changing in S&C it addresses the frequency of injuries, especially to the shoulders.

 

[NUinID]

I guess I was referencing this quote from you, if I am misreading, my apologies:



I am not sure what they did down in Orlando. Would assume much of the same, i know they did the circuit workout down there. I don't know what they did down there that produced 13-0 in year 2, but couldn't produce similar in Lincoln. I am assuming they are doing the same things, would be somewhat foolish to change things up after success like that.

I've brought up that saying "merging Oregon speed with Husker Power" leaves you with about 3 people you can hire to do Husker Power. I think Duval and Frost are friends, but I in no way want to relay that Frost just hired because of that. I think Frost took a chance on Duval when bringing him to Orlando. Before getting to UCF, Duval had 5 losing seasons out of 6 attempts and had only been hired/recommended by former Nebraska coaches/players. But could any of us here fault Frost for thinking he had the best in the business after 2017? In fact it would be incredibly warranted if people were to be upset if he didn't keep him. But I do think 13-0 is skewing our thoughts on what we do a bit. And again to reiterate, I think we are changing a few things not only in the weight room but with the football staff. I think Frost knew something was going wrong, he made changes (not necessarily speaking to S&C). And let's be honest, even if he saw S&C issues in 2019 on the field, what could he (or any coach) do about that right now?

I just don't think i'm going out on too far of a limb or speaking out of place when this site has been around since 2000 or so and we haven't won a conference title this century. Even though I have been early saying when I do or don't like things that I see, with hindsight they've pretty much came to fruition. We are underachieving and losing to teams with recruits that would come to Lincoln in a heartbeat. That's not a "recruiting sites getting rankings wrong" or anything else the past 20 years, that's lack of development in Lincoln.

I guess I thought the emoji meant I was being sarcastic, sorry.

I respect a lot of what you are saying. I guess I think it is too soon to get rid of Duval. S & C is just 1 of the many pieces involved in making a winning team. I can't and won't pin the losing the last 2 years solely on S & C. In fact I would put it pretty low on the list. With a little better luck/motivation or what ever you want to call it this team could have won 9 games last year and should have won 8 if they know how to finish the game. For me the main problem with this team is more mental.

If the team is getting bigger, stronger and more explosive while maintaining speed and flexibility that is what I want to see out of a S & C program. I guess that is pretty simplistic but that is how I see it.

The constant change over the last 20 years is what has cost this team a chance at championships not S & C IMO.

 

[TrapDL]

*** who would be your number 1 guy to hire and why? Also not trying to argue but development is number 1 for us And we have not gotten faster or more explosive bigger yes. If Nick Saban changes with the times you better pay attention because another guy who did this was Tom Osborn.

 

[36Blast]

*** who would be your number 1 guy to hire and why? Also not trying to argue but development is number 1 for us And we have not gotten faster or more explosive bigger yes. If Nick Saban changes with the times you better pay attention because another guy who did this was Tom Osborn.

Start with the guy right down the road in Chris Doyle at Iowa. That would be home run to say the least. Doubt he's going anywhere though as I think I read if he isn't the highest paid S&C coach in the country, he is certainly in the top 3. Old age is killing my memory.