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Recruiting to the Pipeline

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N2FL said:
Agree. IMHO Dennis Wagner was a better OL coach than Barney Cotton. The fact that Bill Callahan was terrible at managing a roster and making sure he recruited to replace position groups properly is a testament to Wagner. Carl Nicks, Matt Slauson and Lydon Murtha were all recruited and coached by Wagner into the NFL. The 2006 OL could be Nebraska's best since 2001.
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Please, please tell me you are joking! What did the 2006 OL do that was particularly special, especially when compared to Cotton's OLs?

The 2006 team averaged fewer yards per carry than 3 out of the 4 teams Cotton has coached (the exception being 2009's abysmal offense). The 2006 team averaged 4.3 yards per carry. Best since 2001? Since 2001, we have had SIX teams average as many or more yards per carry than that squad.

The 2006 team gave up more sacks than any Cotton-coached line. In fact, the 2006 squad gave up nearly 50% more sacks than 3 out of the last 4 lines. Before you talk about how much more we threw the ball in 2006, keep in mind that we averaged 29.52 attempts per game in 2008-2009, compared to 29.36 attempts per game in 2006. Very similar number of attempts, but we gave up 30 sacks in 2006 compared to 21 & 19 in 2008 and 2009.

It's entirely possible that the 2006 team had more natural talent than many of the other lines in the past 10 years. Given all that talent on the line (plus talented backs such as Brandon Jackson and Marlon Lucky), it's unfortunate that the staff was unable to develop them to a point where we saw outstanding results. I suppose we got Callahan's signature win that season with a magical finish against a team that finished the season unranked (A&M).

I'm not suggesting that Cotton is infallible, or that Wagner was a doofus. It's just ludicrous to suggest that the 2006 OL was the best one we've had in the past decade... there's no way to justify that statement.
 

FeelLikeAStranger said:
Wagner was OK, but severely disappointing after all was said and done. I had high hopes for him and supported him, but he just wasn't very good. As it came out later that he was fighting against Callahan's offensive tendency to be less than aggressive...and how much micromanaging Callahan was doing with the OL (STEP FOUR INCHES, NOT SIX!!!)...it became a little clearer WHY he wasn't very good, and why our OL sucked dog bollocks the entire time Callahan was here. Cotton had to fight the same battle with Watson's crap offense, only he had it worse with Watson trying to take WCO and mash it with power and spread all at once. Three philosophies that, IMO, don't go together. Either you get out after someone, or you play pattycake and be passive. Watson tried to do both of those AND run the zone, without knowing how to put them together in any way shape or form. Too much for college kids to try and handle, especially with one coach and one practice station, and backups getting "mental reps" for 2-3 years. Complete mess.

Cotton and Wagner, to me, are pretty similar and both capable OL coaches. They both fought a losing battle against a terrible offensive system for college football for several years, and the results were largely similar...inconsistent and underwhelming. Fortunately, Cotton got out from under that this past year and we have stocked the roster again.

But, rather than disparage Wagner's coaching ability, I'll put a LOT more blame on the S&C program than anything. Our OL was fat, out of shape, weak, and regressed every year Kennedy was in charge. He had no clue, and that was from the top down from Mr. Alleged NFL OL guru himself.
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I appreciate the argument, but a simple :rolleyes: would have sufficed ;).
I am not sure how much of a Barney Cotton fan you are, I just want to be clear that I think Wagner did a C+ job and Cotton is at a C. I feel like I have to point out that I in no way think Wagner was some great OL coach that got away.

I do think the OL took some steps this year, but IMO those strides are associated with the added rolls of John Garrison and Graduate Assistant Brenden Stai. I agree with the points you made about Cotton and Wagner having issues with their teams offensive philosophy and the struggles that came with it and because of it. Since they both in-fact dealt with it, I can argue that the OLs that were soley coached under Cotton in 2008, 2009 and 2010 were largely inconsistent and rarely dominant. The Husker lines under Wagner were much the same, but I do give him the slight nod because he coached the 2006 line that was IMHO the best OL Nebraska has had since 2001. Maybe Husker fans will disagree about that?

Overall when I assess these two coaches, I think Wagner was the better recruiter. Cotton has been the primary recruiter for some very good OL recruits. He also has recruited a few other position kids, but mainly instate guys like Sean Fisher, Tyler Evans and Daniel Davie in those cases. What I liked about Wagner is that he recruited multiple positions. Besides OL recruits he got like Carl Nicks, Matt Slauson and Marcel Jones, he also was the lead recruiter with Ndamukong Suh, Roy Helu, Niles Paul and Maurice Purify. The other thing that I look at is his resume. Dennis Wagner was hired by Pat Hill at Fresno State. Pat Hill got his start coaching the OL and believe me, when a coach is putting a staff together he pays special attention to who he hires at a spot he knows. Pat Hill is a very well respected OL coach who had NFL experience on a Bill Belichick staff before Fresno State and as soon as he was fired from the Bulldogs, he was immediately contacted by Mike Smith of the Atlanta Falcons and hired as their OL coach. Now here comes the touchy one (gulp). Like always, let me premise this statement with the fact that I think Bill Callahan was a horrible Head Coach for Nebraska. Okay now that that's over with, I must say that along with Tom Cable and Mike Tice, Callahan is regarded for better or worse as one of the handful of top OL coaches in the NFL. Take away the fact he is a bad Head Coach, his respect of a fellow OL coach like Wagner says at least a little something.
 
Your so angry its hard to have a back-and-forth with you. I will try and answer each section...


GoBigfRed said:
I figured as much. You're just one of those whiners that thought Callahan was mistreated. Boo hoo! NEVER said this, NEVER thought this. You are simply making this up.

I've got a friend that is in the "stars" business. While I like to make fun of what he does, he puts a lot of work into it, and has quite frankly become more and more prominent and respected in the business to the point that his voice is heard regularly. My son also has a friend in the same business, and his name is being bandied about a bit more.

It appears that's the field that you want to grow up and follow, but it's much more than plastering some names on a teams message board after taking stock of others work, without analysis, without strengths and weaknesses and certainly without bashing and downgrading some kids with absence of anything positive just because their last name is Cotton. When do I do that? You have no idea what I do. Accusing me of plagiarism is real classy. I am waiting for your first player assesment on a recruit...and I dont care who a coach is or what his last name is. If I think he deserves it, I will take them to task.

The attitude you also direct toward Coach Cotton pretty much seals the deal. Do I have to like him? I cant question his results?

I'm not an avid stargazer, but I enjoy the submissions and work put in by Red Reign, FLAS, HuskerInOkieland and BornToBeRed and the others who give a lot of good information and research. Enough to peak my interest in what we're looking at for a coming year, along with the why's and why not's. So you are saying I dont do that? Because Im not a Husker fan? I dont bring anything to the recruiting board?

I actually thought very highly of Coach Wagner and fully understood why he failed working for your coach with his micro-managing that pretty much made all of the assistants, who were probably all better coaches than him, look much worse than they were. Then why are you bashing me for preferring him to Cotton?

I also recognize that Coach Cotton is a doggone good coach. Real football people speak highly of him. Milt Tenopir likes what he's doing, and had lobbied for some time to get some help for him to equal the staffing that proved to be a huge benefit when Milt was here. Here is just where we disagree, why are you so angry?
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N2FL said:
I appreciate the argument, but a simple :rolleyes: would have sufficed ;).
I am not sure how much of a Barney Cotton fan you are, I just want to be clear that I think Wagner did a C+ job and Cotton is at a C. I feel like I have to point out that I in no way think Wagner was some great OL coach that got away.

I do think the OL took some steps this year, but IMO those strides are associated with the added rolls of John Garrison and Graduate Assistant Brenden Stai. I agree with the points you made about Cotton and Wagner having issues with their teams offensive philosophy and the struggles that came with it and because of it. Since they both in-fact dealt with it, I can argue that the OLs that were soley coached under Cotton in 2008, 2009 and 2010 were largely inconsistent and rarely dominant. The Husker lines under Wagner were much the same, but I do give him the slight nod because he coached the 2006 line that was IMHO the best OL Nebraska has had since 2001. Maybe Husker fans will disagree about that?

Overall when I assess these two coaches, I think Wagner was the better recruiter. Cotton has been the primary recruiter for some very good OL recruits. He also has recruited a few other position kids, but mainly instate guys like Sean Fisher, Tyler Evans and Daniel Davie in those cases. What I liked about Wagner is that he recruited multiple positions. Besides OL recruits he got like Carl Nicks, Matt Slauson and Marcel Jones, he also was the lead recruiter with Ndamukong Suh, Roy Helu, Niles Paul and Maurice Purify. The other thing that I look at is his resume. Dennis Wagner was hired by Pat Hill at Fresno State. Pat Hill got his start coaching the OL and believe me, when a coach is putting a staff together he pays special attention to who he hires at a spot he knows. Pat Hill is a very well respected OL coach who had NFL experience on a Bill Belichick staff before Fresno State and as soon as he was fired from the Bulldogs, he was immediately contacted by Mike Smith of the Atlanta Falcons and hired as their OL coach. Now here comes the touchy one (gulp). Like always, let me premise this statement with the fact that I think Bill Callahan was a horrible Head Coach for Nebraska. Okay now that that's over with, I must say that along with Tom Cable and Mike Tice, Callahan is regarded for better or worse as one of the handful of top OL coaches in the NFL. Take away the fact he is a bad Head Coach, his respect of a fellow OL coach like Wagner says at least a little something.
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No need for me to roll my eyes at you. I respect your opinions. I don't agree with all of them, but I appreciate your perspective.

I was personally higher on Wagner than anyone else on that staff, but it ended up in disappointment. Like his successor, I think his hands were tied with the offensive philosophy of the play-caller to a large extent.

If Callahan truly respected Wagner, he would have let him coach, IMO.
 



FeelLikeAStranger said:
No need for me to roll my eyes at you. I respect your opinions. I don't agree with all of them, but I appreciate your perspective.

I was personally higher on Wagner than anyone else on that staff, but it ended up in disappointment. Like his successor, I think his hands were tied with the offensive philosophy of the play-caller to a large extent.

If Callahan truly respected Wagner, he would have let him coach, IMO.
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Agree 100%. Another one of Callahan's faults. But just like Bo with the defense, its hard to keep your hands out of what you do best - even when you are hurting the team (Callahan, NOT Pelini). Callahan clearly was terrible at this as well. He could not do what was best for the program. Unlike what Steve Sarkisan did when he fired a good friend/yet failing DC in Nick Holt, Callahan could not do what needed to be done in the same situation with friend Kevin Cosgrove.

Nebraska is better off because of it anyways...
 
N2FL said:
Your so angry its hard to have a back-and-forth with you. I will try and answer each section...
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Many of us here enjoy your takes and are glad you hear. Don't worry, it's not the first time Fred has lied about someone to try to make his point.
 
N2FL said:
Your so angry its hard to have a back-and-forth with you. I will try and answer each section...
Click to expand...

I figured as much. You're just one of those whiners that thought Callahan was mistreated. Boo hoo! NEVER said this, NEVER thought this. You are simply making this up.
Click to expand...

If you refuse to shine the shoes of TO, Pelini or Cotton you ARE a Callahan supporter in fRed's eyes.
 
NEWICOsker said:
Many of us here enjoy your takes and are glad you hear. Don't worry, it's not the first time Fred has lied about someone to try to make his point.
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It's a happier world when I just ignore your childishness, but you know I don't lie. You've tried to spin that yarn before and had it blow up in your face when called on it.

On the other hand, the link below provides an example of somebody telling a blatant, yet very dramatic, "untruth" about someone else in another apparent attempt to portray said person in a negative light.

http://www.huskermax.com/vbbs/showthread.php?26721-Congrats-to-Fred

You really need to get over your obsession.
 




Why on this thread, and the thread from nov 2011 that fRed is referring to, does it say "Weinosker", But when someone quotes him, its "NEWICOsker"?

Did I miss something in my initiation class?
 
O'Husker said:
Why on this thread, and the thread from nov 2011 that fRed is referring to, does it say "Weinosker", But when someone quotes him, its "NEWICOsker"?

Did I miss something in my initiation class?
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Good question, maybe after 4,000 posts you get to start using a pen name
 



Husker10 said:
Thanks Mort, I use the same avatar on my fanasty football team which is named, "I'm afraid I blue myself", nobody gets it...
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Oh, Husker10, you blow hard! I've been in the [webchat] business for awhile, but I just can't seem to get one in the can.
 
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