Ohio State and Title IX

[AzHusker]

All I'm saying is I don't like how institutions and individuals are pulled in by laws requiring them to report. It has shifted a lot of responsibility onto them.

I'm late to this game, but just had to respond to this one sentence.

"From whom much is given, much is expected."

I have no problem whatsoever with leaders of people being required and responsible for reporting suspected abuse of any kind. The problem is so tenacious, it takes all hands on deck in a civilized nation to make a difference.

 

[Hville]

I'm late to this game, but just had to respond to this one sentence.

"From whom much is given, much is expected."

I have no problem whatsoever with leaders of people being required and responsible for reporting suspected abuse of any kind. The problem is so tenacious, it takes all hands on deck in a civilized nation to make a difference.

Not to the point that the shift of responsibility both professionally, institutionally and financially get transferred to the people who are being tasked with reporting. Especially when, in this particular case, the police had already known. Its pure BS to make this an Ohio State or UM issue to the extent that people are losing jobs that weren't part of the abuse and obviously didn't cover it up since the police were there 9 times (as I read somewhere).

As for lying to the media. Never ever seen another coach or Athletic Director do that.

 

[AzHusker]

Not to the point that the shift of responsibility both professionally, institutionally and financially get transferred to the people who are being tasked with reporting. Especially when, in this particular case, the police had already known. Its pure BS to make this an Ohio State or UM issue to the extent that people are losing jobs that weren't part of the abuse and obviously didn't cover it up since the police were there 9 times (as I read somewhere).

As for lying to the media. Never ever seen another coach or Athletic Director do that.

Unfortunately, there are shades of gray in almost all of these cases. If the police were called out one time, should that absolve the University of any future reporting responsibility? I agree that the police are the "highest authority" in general, but they can't be hall monitors, checking in with a family daily to make sure all is OK. It takes others to keep their eyes and ears open, too. That's the whole basis of the mandatory reporter rule. As for the penalty being harsh - in this case it will be a University administrator making the employment decision - and at this level politics get involved too and we all know what can happen when things go political...so your issue would be with the University prez.

Lying to the media is nothing apparently. In fact, it can get you to some pretty high places..

 

[solesrfr]

So the worse thing he did was lie at media days. How about the fact that he twice hired a subhuman who beats women? Even when stated subhuman does it multiple times he refuses to fire him. All of that is worse than lieing about it.

I guess you missed the second sentence after that.




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[Hville]

I guess you missed the second sentence after that.




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Yes I did miss it. I think he only hired him once after the initial false accusation.

 

[solesrfr]

Yes I did miss it. I think he only hired him once after the initial false accusation.

My response was to Thom, not you.


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[The Big Red Lebowski]

What if they had fired him? What if he was a minority and fired him? Nowdays if a white person calls the cop on anything a minority its all over the media. Call the cops and get in trouble. Don't call the cops you get in trouble.

Most of you will disagree but just my opinion of what makes me sick about our society today.

What are you on about? Are you suggesting that if all the facts were the same except the coach was a minority, it would change things? How? And what exactly is making you "sick about our society today?" That whites can't call the cops to report black crime or they will get into trouble? I'm sorry, but that's not a thing.

 

[solesrfr]

Yes I did miss it. I think he only hired him once after the initial false accusation.

Are you saying the 2009 incident in which ZS was arrested and charged with felony assault where his family, Urban's lackey, and Earl Bruce talk Courtney out of following through with pressing charges is a false accusation?



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[Yoda]

Good example of why I hate Title IX for non adult situations. I hate directing the reporting responsibility onto an institution or another human being. If the victim isn't willing to do it than why should a 3rd party person be held accountable for it? Its just as possible for a 3rd party victim to be "scared of retaliation" as the original victim. Just hate that our society is always making laws to hold someone other than the perpetrator just as accountable.

From the institutions position what are you supposed to do? Fire anyone who has an allegation brought against them? Investigate internally and subject yourself to bias? Report it to the police and let them handle it and subject yourself to criticism that you didn't do enough?

What if they had fired him? What if he was a minority and fired him? Nowdays if a white person calls the cop on anything a minority its all over the media. Call the cops and get in trouble. Don't call the cops you get in trouble.

Most of you will disagree but just my opinion of what makes me sick about our society today.

You are quoting a child abuse regulation. As I said I don't like it at the adult level. Many others are trying to call this a sexual misconduct case under title IX. I believe that in many cases some of those the victims are powerless. This isn't one of those cases as she was reporting it. The issue here was the failure on the police to either recognize it or the accurate reporting. The University, the AD and the Head coach are getting drug into this. Exchange the name of the them with Bill Moos, Scott Frost and the University of Nebraska and a lot of opinions change. Some would say Scott Frost would never hire someone like that or the University wouldn't let it happen. Well lets not forget retaining Keith Williams and the hiring of a very controversial Ron Brown. All I'm saying is I don't like how institutions and individuals are pulled in by laws requiring them to report. It has shifted a lot of responsibility onto them.

You’re still conflating Title IX and OSU’s “Title IX” policy. And, it is OSU’s policy that defines “sexual misconduct” to include domestic violence. OSU can chose whatever definition it wants in its policy.

 

[Hville]

You’re still conflating Title IX and OSU’s “Title IX” policy. And, it is OSU’s policy that defines “sexual misconduct” to include domestic violence. OSU can chose whatever definition it wants in its policy.

I'm not conflating it. I was responding to another post that was using Title IX as their reason for the sexual misconduct charges.

 

[Hville]

What are you on about? Are you suggesting that if all the facts were the same except the coach was a minority, it would change things? How? And what exactly is making you "sick about our society today?" That whites can't call the cops to report black crime or they will get into trouble? I'm sorry, but that's not a thing.

You pretty much summarized it.

 

[Hville]

Here is the bottom line. Many are trying to make this a Title IX violation and saying he failed to report it directly to the title IX office. Title IX was designed to create equal opportunities for students at federally funded Universities. In the 1990's it was expanded to include the sexual abuse and harassment of students because it was determined that in some cases this harassment or abuse was responsible for creating fair and equal access to programs.

Never was it the intent to cover physical assault to a non student at home by her husband. This is a police matter and their are procedures in place by law enforcement to handle this. Now if Ohio State has separate polices in place that cover something like this than they can address that in their investigation. I just think bringing Title IX into this is well beyond the scope of that law and just another example of where society is going over board in blaming others for what a perpetrator did.

 

[Deleted member 5200]

Here is the bottom line. Many are trying to make this a Title IX violation and saying he failed to report it directly to the title IX office. Title IX was designed to create equal opportunities for students at federally funded Universities. In the 1990's it was expanded to include the sexual abuse and harassment of students because it was determined that in some cases this harassment or abuse was responsible for creating fair and equal access to programs.

Never was it the intent to cover physical assault to a non student at home by her husband. This is a police matter and their are procedures in place by law enforcement to handle this. Now if Ohio State has separate polices in place that cover something like this than they can address that in their investigation. I just think bringing Title IX into this is well beyond the scope of that law and just another example of where society is going over board in blaming others for what a perpetrator did.

tOSU was required by Title IX to come up with a sexual assault policy. They chose to include domestic violence. Indirectly, it is a Title IX issue.

 

[MartyHuskerFan]

Hville, thanks. You have done a decent job of representing my opinions on this thread. Its tough to battle the lynch mob from all their angles, but you have been hanging in there. Keep up the good work.

Smith probably did choke his wife, and maybe did it on several occasions. I think those around the Smith's should have all been watching out and helping to protect her from him, as I am sure they did. She did get out of there, right? Her life is going to be a struggle, with an ex-husband like that. She needs ongoing support from her circle of friends and family. He needs to face the consequences of his actions. Beating up UM or tOSU is not going to change any of that.

I do not think assigning responsibility to Urban Meyer or tOSU is appropriate. It could be that my beef is with Title IX, again. I will let guys like Hville do the heavy arguing. Just know that he is not alone and no matter how many of you gang up on him, it does not make him wrong or make him a bad guy for having a reasonable opinion.

 

[Hville]

tOSU was required by Title IX to come up with a sexual assault policy. They chose to include domestic violence. Indirectly, it is a Title IX issue.

Whatever you say but he's not in violation of Title IX.