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Game of telephone.... what i'm hearing

Bleed Red

Scout Team
5 Year Member
I think that makes sense. I think Stille will be able to be serviceable for us, but the other DE spot and NG I worry about. There was definitely some tension between Frost and the Davis twins. But if losing 2 NFL draft picks is a good thing, I worry about our coaching.

The Davis twins (along with Darrion Daniels) are going to be the new Tommy Armstrong. Everyone thought we'd be fine once we got some of "our guys" playing that "are a better fit for our scheme" and then Tanner Lee happened. We won't appreciate them until we don't have them. Luckily 2020 is kind of a throw away year.
Probably correct that last year's DL will be more appreciated this year IF the new starters struggle. However, as much as people want to quote stats to support how great last years DL was, the the bottom line production really wasn't that fantastic. It was very rare during any game last year where i ever got the feeling that "wow, our DL is wrecking things for them". The tension between SF and the twins may have been because of some of the untimely penalties and mental errors made that shouldn't happen from seniors who have NFL talent. Although as of now, neither of them are really making an impact at that level like Collins, Suh, Gregory or some other past DL.
 

LurkSker44

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
I would tell you that much of Martinez's issue last year was that he knew the job was his. Didn't prepare as if his job was in jeopardy. They are creating that for him this year, and I applaud them for it. However, what people forget is that even when Martinez was injured last year, McCaffrey didn't start. And are you starting a freshman at the Horseshoe instead of your kid with 20 starts under his belt that you claimed was better than Joe Burrow? Probably not. I would be absolutely shocked.

As i've said all along, this is Martinez's job first game. After that it's up to him to produce. I do really appreciate the competition they are creating though, I think it's making Martinez better. I do believe they will get a series or two in with McCaffrey though to see how he performs when the lights are on. And I think McCaffrey has the ability to unseat Martinez during the season if the first four games we go 1-3, it just isn't happening before Ohio State. I don't think it's due to McCaffrey not having the tools, they are just going to roll experience out there against the #2 team in the country, not throw the kid to the wolves.
I find it a little disheartening that he didn't prepare as hard as he could regardless of another QB pushing him for his spot. Maybe that's just the nature of things these days and not an AM issue. I'm glad the coaches are creating competition too.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
I would tell you that much of Martinez's issue last year was that he knew the job was his. Didn't prepare as if his job was in jeopardy. They are creating that for him this year, and I applaud them for it. However, what people forget is that even when Martinez was injured last year, McCaffrey didn't start. And are you starting a freshman at the Horseshoe instead of your kid with 20 starts under his belt that you claimed was better than Joe Burrow? Probably not. I would be absolutely shocked.

As i've said all along, this is Martinez's job first game. After that it's up to him to produce. I do really appreciate the competition they are creating though, I think it's making Martinez better. I do believe they will get a series or two in with McCaffrey though to see how he performs when the lights are on. And I think McCaffrey has the ability to unseat Martinez during the season if the first four games we go 1-3, it just isn't happening before Ohio State. I don't think it's due to McCaffrey not having the tools, they are just going to roll experience out there against the #2 team in the country, not throw the kid to the wolves.
This all makes sense. If all things are equal (as they make it sound) go with experience.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Probably correct that last year's DL will be more appreciated this year IF the new starters struggle. However, as much as people want to quote stats to support how great last years DL was, the the bottom line production really wasn't that fantastic. It was very rare during any game last year where i ever got the feeling that "wow, our DL is wrecking things for them". The tension between SF and the twins may have been because of some of the untimely penalties and mental errors made that shouldn't happen from seniors who have NFL talent. Although as of now, neither of them are really making an impact at that level like Collins, Suh, Gregory or some other past DL.
We had a defensive lineman that was top 20 in sacks for his position in 2019. I'll come eat crow if we have a defensive lineman average .73 sacks per game in 2020. The twins were both drafted due to their ability to get to the quarterback.

That's probably one reason for the tension, there are other reasons as well.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I find it a little disheartening that he didn't prepare as hard as he could regardless of another QB pushing him for his spot. Maybe that's just the nature of things these days and not an AM issue. I'm glad the coaches are creating competition too.
I'm not trying to tell you he was at McDonalds while everyone else was working out, but he wasn't losing the job to Vedral and McCaffrey had played QB for a year and a half. Just wasn't going to happen so he was a bit lax.
 

Huskerthom

All Big 10
5 Year Member
I find it a little disheartening that he didn't prepare as hard as he could regardless of another QB pushing him for his spot. Maybe that's just the nature of things these days and not an AM issue. I'm glad the coaches are creating competition too.
This is not an apples to apples comparison. When I was in the Corps my best PFT run times were when someone was running next to me. When I was way out-front with no one pushing me I would be 2-3 minutes slower on my 3 mile run time. It is human nature to compete. If you lift get a lift partner who will push you. Just human nature if you are way ahead of the pack. You think, "Well I must be doing pretty good."

I always remember a new SSGT checked into the unit and asked if anyone knew a good 3-4 mile route that he could run at lunch. I said sure and took him on my normal route around a small lake. When we got back to HQ we both looked at each other and said. "I will never run with you again, I was killing myself keeping up." We had a very similar pace. So when I would get tired he was hitting his stride, When he was tired I was hitting my stride. Again it is human nature.
 

NUinID

Scout Team
5 Year Member
I don't think i'm "worrying" about what we don't have. I'm just stating what we had in 2019 to what we have in 2020, which paints a picture of how 2020 will go. Which is what this thread is about.
Really? I don't think it paints a picture at all. Were you predicting 5-7 in 2019 because we had all that defensive line talent back?

Bottom line for me is W-L as it is with you.
 
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LurkSker44

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
This is not an apples to apples comparison. When I was in the Corps my best PFT run times were when someone was running next to me. When I was way out-front with no one pushing me I would be 2-3 minutes slower on my 3 mile run time. It is human nature to compete. If you lift get a lift partner who will push you. Just human nature if you are way ahead of the pack. You think, "Well I must be doing pretty good."

I always remember a new SSGT checked into the unit and asked if anyone knew a good 3-4 mile route that he could run at lunch. I said sure and took him on my normal route around a small lake. When we got back to HQ we both looked at each other and said. "I will never run with you again, I was killing myself keeping up." We had a very similar pace. So when I would get tired he was hitting his stride, When he was tired I was hitting my stride. Again it is human nature.
Good points.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Really? I don't think it paints a picture at all. Were you predicting 5-7 in 2019 because we had all that defensive line talent back?

Bottom line for me is W-L as it is with you.
LOL.... you don't think who you had the year prior and what you lost or have returning paints a picture for the following year for that unit? I need to let Phil Steele know this so he doesn't waste his time. You have to be trolling, that can't be an honest statement because I believe you are smarter than that, but i'll play along because i'm bored.....

First, I don't think anyone predicted 5-7. Second, let me know if W/L records only come down to how your defensive line plays or how good they are. If so, why didn't we hire a defensive line minded head coach instead? Frost seems like the worst hire ever if that is how records come to fruition. Lastly, I'm predicting at least .500 this year if not better while thinking our DL will see a drop off from 2019.

Summation: A single unit being better or worse does not dictate the W/L record of the team. So not sure what 5-7 has to do with anything.
 
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Pops

I have squandered my resistance
15 Year Member
I was thinking the exact same thing...

25 years in the Army and was fortunate to work with Navy Seals on several occasion.

Professionals....the word “quit” and does not exist with these guys.
I strolled around with Rangers awhile in country. Not on same level Seals but those cats were flat out crazy. I learned a lot of crazy back then
 

NUinID

Scout Team
5 Year Member
LOL.... you don't think who you had the year prior and what you lost or have returning paints a picture for the following year for that unit? You have to be trolling, but i'll play along because i'm bored.....

First, I don't think anyone predicted 5-7. Second, let me know if W/L records only come down to how your defensive line plays or how good they are. If so, why didn't we hire a defensive line minded head coach instead? Frost seems like the worst hire ever if that is how records come to fruition. Lastly, I'm predicting at least .500 this year if not better while thinking our DL will see a drop off from 2019. So not sure what 5-7 has to do with anything.
SSO my point is you have been hammering and hammering about losing these guys on defense for a long time, as I have said a couple of times in this thread.

"I'm just stating what we had in 2019 to what we have in 2020, which paints a picture of how 2020 will go. Which is what this thread is about." @ShortSideOption

I guess when I read that. It sounds to me like you think this year will be worse. That is what it sounds like to me. I guess you were only talking about the d-line. My mistake.

I have said many times I think they take a step back on the D-line and that we should wait and see.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
SSO my point is you have been hammering and hammering about losing these guys on defense for a long time, as I have said a couple of times in this thread.

"I'm just stating what we had in 2019 to what we have in 2020, which paints a picture of how 2020 will go. Which is what this thread is about." @ShortSideOption

I guess when I read that. It sounds to me like you think this year will be worse. That is what it sounds like to me. I guess you were only talking about the d-line. My mistake.

I have said many times I think they take a step back on the D-line and that we should wait and see.
Our whole back and forth started from me stating our LBs may actually be better this year filling gaps, but we may not see it due to a lesser DL in front of them. I don't hammer anything, I just respond to things and reasons they may or may not happen.

Last sentence is basically what i've been stating as well. I expect them to take a step back on the DL, but we will have improvement in other areas such as LB and DB and I expect our first .500 or better in season since 2016.
 

David3464

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
After seeing how IowaState has done under Campbell, I would take him over SF any day. He definitely seems like a guy we could have had and has proven he is a great coach.
 

David3464

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
I would tell you that much of Martinez's issue last year was that he knew the job was his. Didn't prepare as if his job was in jeopardy. They are creating that for him this year, and I applaud them for it. However, what people forget is that even when Martinez was injured last year, McCaffrey didn't start. And are you starting a freshman at the Horseshoe instead of your kid with 20 starts under his belt that you claimed was better than Joe Burrow? Probably not. I would be absolutely shocked.

As i've said all along, this is Martinez's job first game. After that it's up to him to produce. I do really appreciate the competition they are creating though, I think it's making Martinez better. I do believe they will get a series or two in with McCaffrey though to see how he performs when the lights are on. And I think McCaffrey has the ability to unseat Martinez during the season if the first four games we go 1-3, it just isn't happening before Ohio State. I don't think it's due to McCaffrey not having the tools, they are just going to roll experience out there against the #2 team in the country, not throw the kid to the wolves.
With no fans at the opponents stadiums, I’d have no qualms with McCaffrey starting there. That goes for any team. I just don’t see home fields as being a big deal without fans there. When I see both college and NFL games this year, with little to no fans, typically the best team has won-home field having little advantage.
 

johnrr6

Lucky!
5 Year Member
After seeing how IowaState has done under Campbell, I would take him over SF any day. He definitely seems like a guy we could have had and has proven he is a great coach.
Campbell is a good coach and has done remarkably well at Iowa State. I will still take Frost....

I think Frost is building for the long term. I think Campbell had some wonderful hidden diamonds fall in his lap....and.....

It’s the Big 12.
 
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