Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Delaney's position on Amateurism

[wcbsas]

If it didn't matter, there wouldn't be a lawsuit. Like all of you, I don't want college football to become NFL light, but I think all this anger toward the players is misplaced. A vast majority of the blame belongs to the NCAA.

The NCAA could have done all sorts of things to get in front of this issue and refused. Had they allowed small stipends and true cost scholarships, this wouldn't have happened. If their greed and hypocrisy wouldn't have led them to sell player jerseys and championship DVD's in their online store, this wouldn't have happened. If they wouldn't have licensed their logo to EA Sports, this wouldn't have happened. The March Madness TV deal is $11 BILLION dollars. That wasn't enough?

Where does the vast majority of that $11B go? Back to its member institutions where they fund non-revenue sports, Title IX initiatives and yes, glorious infrastructures that are used to lure the next wave of Johnny Football's to their school.

Do you think allowing a "stipend" is going to prevent someone from saying that I can profit from my likeness more than I already am getting? First it is free education, then its going to be education plus a stipend, then does it eventually get to whatever his/her market value is? Go pro. If you want your fair share, go pro!

 

[SoCalRed]

In the 70s you didn't have coaches making $5M. You didn't have EA (and the NCAA) sports using your likeness to make billions. You didn't have the Big 10 Network and the billions involved there. You probably didn't have a crazy "team gear" market like you do now. You didn't have the NCAA giving guys crap over a ham sandwich...much less a "shady" part time job. Sure it was still big business...but NOTHING like it is now. These monster corporations (schools, NCAA, Networks, conferences, video games, etc) make an incredible amount of money and the ONLY reason they do is because of the efforts of the players. Without the players ALL of that money goes away. Every penny.

It's all relative. In the seventies you could still buy a car for $2,000. The money argument is a waste of time. Relative incomes have not changed much compared to relative costs.

Delaney's comments are right on the money. If you want to get paid, join a professional league. College football is still about College. Colleges are institutions of academic learning, and the idea of the student athlete is still viable. If you don't maintain grades, you don't get to play. If you're a paid player how do you justify paying him if he's not playing? Just too many cans of worms.

 

[HuskerJ]

Haha. I'm not a gamer, so let me ask a quick question before I give you an answer. Does Taylor fumble as often in NCAA 14 as he does in real life?

...cause if not there's not sufficient likeness...

 

[SoCalRed]

What's your solution bilsker?

I am on the fence with this. There are a lot of questions I have if there were a pay for play model or on the flip side the age restriction is lifted on the pro levels.

Regarding pay for play, I understand that the kids make a lot of money for the schools, etc. My two biggest concerns would be:

1. How do you regulate it? Not to suggest that the NCAA is even remotely effective at curtailing cheating now.
2. What does it do to all the other intercollegiate sports? Will there be enough money after players are paid to fund the other sports?

Regarding pro sports lifting the age restrictions my only fear would be does CFB turn into CBB? I'd hate to see college football not get the best players or only get players for a year until they get on the radar. Immediately, my first thought is, pro teams probably aren't going to be interested in taking guys right out of HS. I think it's harder to project football players 4-5 years down the line than say basketball. Some exceptions may be a guy like Andrew Luck, but it hurts CFB to not have him at all.

I guess I would like to see more of an Olympic model. Kids don't get paid for playing, but they can make money off their likeness and autographs. I realize there is risk in regulating this but is it really harder than trying to keep under the table payments away from the kids now?

I think the bar should be lifted for both sports. MLB doesn't pay any attention to this age requirement, and college baseball doesn't notice the kids that never play there.

Fact is, if high school kids go on to a pro development league it will go a long way toward leveling the playing field in CFB. Fans will still follow their favorite teams, and TV will still play to get that audience regardless of which players are playing.

 

[SoCalRed]

Assuming they received something close to the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, they'd love it. If each school in the top 25 revenue-producing schools paid out 47% of revenue to the players (like the NFL) then each of its 85 scholarship players would get hundreds of thousands each year. Tuition, room and meal plan at public schools is $16k to $18k for residents (double for non-residents).

http://college-football.si.com/2013...rth-578000-dollars-per-year-business-insider/

Why would you make that assumption? There is no collective bargaining agreement in CFB.

 

[HuskerJ]

In the 70s you didn't have coaches making $5M. You didn't have EA (and the NCAA) sports using your likeness to make billions. You didn't have the Big 10 Network and the billions involved there. You probably didn't have a crazy "team gear" market like you do now. You didn't have the NCAA giving guys crap over a ham sandwich...much less a "shady" part time job. Sure it was still big business...but NOTHING like it is now. These monster corporations (schools, NCAA, Networks, conferences, video games, etc) make an incredible amount of money and the ONLY reason they do is because of the efforts of the players. Without the players ALL of that money goes away. Every penny.

How much compensation for a redshirt year or riding the pine...or getting kicked off the team after ea sports capitalizes off your likeness...come on...

 

[HuskerJ]

Those magazines or websites that profit off of posting mugshots...those arrested should be paid their fair share or are they professionals...

 

[Funky]

I think the bar should be lifted for both sports. MLB doesn't pay any attention to this age requirement, and college baseball doesn't notice the kids that never play there.

Fact is, if high school kids go on to a pro development league it will go a long way toward leveling the playing field in CFB. Fans will still follow their favorite teams, and TV will still play to get that audience regardless of which players are playing.

The NFL has a pretty sweet deal in the current environment. Players go through high quality training and S&C programs, and then the best players are ripe for the picking come NFL draft time.

 

[SoCalRed]

The NFL has a pretty sweet deal in the current environment. Players go through high quality training and S&C programs, and then the best players are ripe for the picking come NFL draft time.

Well, that's aleays been the main reason why they have never really attempted a development league. Too expensive. I think Delaney hits it square on the nose.

BTW, the argument that this is some salvo for the big conference to pull away from the NCAA or to start yet another separate division is a bit silly. If it truly were such a salvo, then Delaney might be promoting the idea of paying the athletes.

Fact is, a 60 team division is a risky proposition for for all the big time teams. They would be forced to play the best teams every freaking week. There goes the SEC late season romps in which the top units get a week off. There goes the three or four home games ooc to start the season, which all these teams need to maximize revenue.

There are many, many reasons why it's unlikely to ever happen.

 

[CombatTargeteer]

They should make the top three money making teams in the NFL pay for all of the other teams. It's the new American way.

 

[Hotlanta Husker]

Well, that's aleays been the main reason why they have never really attempted a development league. Too expensive. I think Delaney hits it square on the nose.

BTW, the argument that this is some salvo for the big conference to pull away from the NCAA or to start yet another separate division is a bit silly. If it truly were such a salvo, then Delaney might be promoting the idea of paying the athletes.

Fact is, a 60 team division is a risky proposition for for all the big time teams. They would be forced to play the best teams every freaking week. There goes the SEC late season romps in which the top units get a week off. There goes the three or four home games ooc to start the season, which all these teams need to maximize revenue.

There are many, many reasons why it's unlikely to ever happen.

In the immortal words of James Carville in the movie Old School... "we have no response.... that was perfect"

 

[The Big Red Lebowski]

Where does the vast majority of that $11B go? Back to its member institutions where they fund non-revenue sports, Title IX initiatives and yes, glorious infrastructures that are used to lure the next wave of Johnny Football's to their school.

Do you think allowing a "stipend" is going to prevent someone from saying that I can profit from my likeness more than I already am getting? First it is free education, then its going to be education plus a stipend, then does it eventually get to whatever his/her market value is? Go pro. If you want your fair share, go pro!

Actually, about 40% of the money is retained by the NCAA to fund its operations. The windfall is also what's driving million dollar coaching salaries. But yes, a good junk is used just as you say. My point is still the same. Wasn't $11 billion enough? Why bother with EA Sports?

The pot has grown into the billions, and the players are the only ones not cashing in. Cable/Satellite providers have cashed in. Universities have cashed in. Coaches have clearly cashed in. Licensed apparel/merchandise companies have cashed in. Hotels and restaurants have cashed in. Municipalities have cashed in (ie, tax revenue on hotels, restaurant checks and travel). Everyone has cashed in except the players and now everyone acts appalled when a move is afoot to include the players in the windfall. I don't get it.

And yes, I think had the NCAA allowed stipends, true-cost scholarships and backed away from hypocritical (and really unnecessary) revenue streams, this lawsuit would not exist. The NCAA is reaping what it has sewn.

The players can't "just go pro" as you say. As you know, the NFL has age eligibility rules. I have no idea how the rules have stood up to court scrutiny time and again, but they have. The rule has endured multiple lawsuits. If it ever falls, the "go pro" argument will have a lot more legs.

 

[The Big Red Lebowski]

...cause if not there's not sufficient likeness...

 

[The Big Red Lebowski]

Why would you make that assumption? There is no collective bargaining agreement in CFB.

In that case, I don't get your point at all. Your OP was something in the vein of "Let's pay the players but then they have to pay for tuition and room/board. Let's see how they like that...boom!"

What's the point? Why wouldn't they like that?

 

[bilsker]

it doesnt matter. It doesnt change the fact that they are getting a free education and playing for the university takes there zero likeness and makes it relevent. If they want to be compensated for their "likeness" that doesnt exist outside of their tie to the university, then they should be able to go pro out of high school and go make their money off of their "likeness".

A "free education".

These guys work 12 months a year and are basically not allowed to have jobs....sure as hell not if they want to be a guy that gets on the field. They days of the players going home for the summer and working are over. They practice all through august. Play Sept.-December...into January. Required to do winter conditioning. Then spring ball. Then summer work outs and "voluntary 7 on 7" stuff...then it's august again. Free my ass. But yea...the deal is "I" do all that and you pay for my education. There is a line. Obviously, EA understands that line was crossed because they were willing to pay the players one way or another but the NCAA said no.