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Berti Vogts and Tab Ramos in, Martin Vasquez out of USMNT staff for WC


I've never been a fan of Vasquez and have said so from the day Klinsman hired him....his resume or lack of one speaks for itself and many player comments about him are tell-tale.....with that being said why would you wait until 60 days before the WC to make this change? Very odd indeed and the sort of stuff that leaves one scratching their head....agree should have been done a long time ago...


Grant Wahl ‏<s>@</s>GrantWahlJurgen Klinsmann drops US assistant Martín Vásquez (his ex-No. 2 at Bayern) a bit more than 2 months before World Cup. Big news, odd timing.


Alexi Lalas ‏<s>@</s>AlexiLalasBerti Vogts and Tab Ramos in, Martin Vasquez out of <s>#</s>USMNT staff for WC. http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-National-Team/2014/03/140330-MNT-Adds-Vogts.aspx#sthash.n2WreyjZ.dpuf …


Jeff Carlisle ‏<s>@</s>JeffreyCarlisleThe whole timing of Vasquez announcement is just…odd. If JK was going to do this, I thought he would've pulled the trigger long ago. <s>#</s>usmnt


Doug McIntyre ‏<s>@</s>DougMacESPN Interesting that new <s>#</s> usmnt staffer Berti Vogts will continue as manager of Azerbaijan, which faces U.S. on May 27.
 
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FWIW Vogts coaching resume is mediocre........so I have to disagree that he is a big addition....

He has a 43.95% (109 wins, 64 draws and 75 losses) winning percentage at club and international level....

You can see his stats here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berti_Vogts
 
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This pretty much nails it:

People act like we have stolen a coach off Germany’s staff or something, but that was decades ago. There’s a reason it’s dwindled (the teams he has coached) to Kuwait, Scotland, or Azerbaijan. You just got Azerbaijan’s coach who got them to an unimpressive spot in both sets of qualifiers.
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I don’t understand all those who applaud the moves. I don’t have a problem with Vasquez being replaced by Ramos (although while I loved Ramos as a player, he’s done very little to impress as a coach), but bringing in a “special adviser” who happens to be a coach of another national team at the same time?? Weird. This has panic mode written all over. When was the last time you heard of a successful coaching shake-up so late in the cycle?

And what special knowledge of Germany and Portugal Vogts possesses that, especially in our age of internet and satellites and scouts, others do not have? The current US coaching staff can’t find tapes of games played by Germany and Portugal? Sort of like the statement that Vasquez was there for his knowledge of CONCACAF opponents. I guess there is no one else in the US who knows anything about teams we’ve been playing for years.
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http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/03/klinsmann-shakes-coaching.html#comment-1399127
 
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Red Reign said:
Panic move in my opinion....and I'm no fan of Vasquez.....and no its not a big addition....just look at his coaching resume.....less than steller....

Moving Vasquez should have happened a long time ago....anyone who knows soccer at all knew it was a bad hire to begin with.....
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Somehow I missed this gem.....


Last I checked, we didn't hire ol' Berti to coach the USMNT....not even to be a tactical coach, or #2, or anything of the like....

We hired a coach who:
was twice named German Footballer of the year
96 caps for Germany
Won the World Cup with Germany
Coached Germany for 8 years, then moved on to Kuwait, Scotland, Nigeria, and Azerbaijan....Roughly 250 games of managerial experience at the international level
Won the Euros in 1996 (which by the way, was the last time Germany has won any hardware)

So we're bringing in a pretty well respected, ex-German player and coach, who was one of the better defenders of his time....to be an adviser....How can that not be beneficial?

If you say so.....
 
Guess we will find out in June...won't we? If his advice did any good....lets talk then....

As for tactics...we shall see on that too....Tab Ramos has that role now....and not a lot of coaching experience to lean on....

Old Berti had Roughly 250 games with a 43% win percentage....just so we did not forget that....less than 'wow' in the scheme of things...

What he did as a player has no bearing as a coach....check the sports where super stars have been poor managers and head coaches more than not....

Yup I said so....:)





Drozz said:
Somehow I missed this gem.....


Last I checked, we didn't hire ol' Berti to coach the USMNT....not even to be a tactical coach, or #2, or anything of the like....

We hired a coach:
was twice named German Footballer of the year
96 caps for Germany
Won the World Cup with Germany
Coached Germany for 8 years, then moved on to Kuwait, Scotland, Nigeria, and Azerbaijan....Roughly 250 games of managerial experience at the international level
Won the Euros in 1996 (which by the way, was the last time Germany has won any hardware)

So we're bringing in a pretty well respected, ex-German player and coach, who was one of the better defenders of his time....to be an adviser....How can that not be beneficial?

If you say so.....
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Red Reign said:
Guess we will find out in June...won't we? If his advice did any good....lets talk then....

As for tactics...we shall see on that too....Tab Ramos has that role now....and not a lot of coaching experience to lean on....

Old Berti had Roughly 250 games with a 43% win percentage....just so we did not forget that....less than 'wow' in the scheme of things...

What he did as a player has no bearing as a coach....check the sports where super stars have been poor managers and head coaches more than not....

Yup I said so....:)
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And you're going to judge that how? No matter if we win or lose games, the guy is purely there to advise....give advice and recommendations and info...hence the "adviser" role....Not coaching, not making decisions - which you keep trying to go back to....He lending his 50 years of experience as a professional player and coach to our national team.....How many wins he had as a coach have no bearing on anything....We aren't asking him to coach....But the guy apparently knows the game of soccer fairly well...And teams keep hiring him, so he must be doing something right?


It's absolutely mind blowing that anyone can try and spin adding that kind of experience to a staff, as anything but good
 




I'm going to judge it based on WC results...that's the gold standard....in soccer....

We will find out come June if its indeed good....and that's the bottom line....

Teams keep hiring Berti? Take a look at who is hiring him.....there is a reason you end up coaching countries like that.....

I'm sure he does know the game...he should....how he can translate as a coach is in question and yes I understand he is an advisory role....we will see how good he is in 60 days....


Drozz said:
And you're going to judge that how? No matter if we win or lose games, the guy is purely there to advise....give advice and recommendations and info...hence the "adviser" role....Not coaching, not making decisions - which you keep trying to go back to....He lending his 50 years of experience as a professional player and coach to our national team.....How many wins he had as a coach have no bearing on anything....We aren't asking him to coach....But the guy apparently knows the game of soccer fairly well...And teams keep hiring him, so he must be doing something right?


It's absolutely mind blowing that anyone can try and spin adding that kind of experience to a staff, as anything but good
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Red Reign said:
I'm going to judge it based on WC results...that's the gold standard....in soccer....

We will find out come June if its indeed good....and that's the bottom line....

Teams keep hiring Berti? Take a look at who is hiring him.....there is a reason you end up coaching countries like that.....

I'm sure he does know the game...he should....how he can translate as a coach is in question and yes I understand he is an advisory role....we will see how good he is in 60 days....
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But if he's just in an advisory role, how in the world will we know what his additions to the USMNT have been? What if he is in JKs ear the entire time with different ideas, and JK ignores them? How would we as common fans know these things? If we get blasted and don't win a game in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? Or if we go undefeated in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? None of us will ever know, but that's not the point. The point is JK is asking for some extra help/ideas/thoughts from a guy with a crapton of experience which usually is beneficial. So RR I'm with Drozz on this one... I mean are we even going to see Vogts on the sidelines? I would guess an a 'special advisor' he won't be allowed that close so his thoughts will probably come from watching film, etc. I would almost view him as another scout.

If you want to debate the hiring of Ramos/firing of Vazquez at this point, thats a completely different issue. Doesn't make much sense w/ 2 months to go, but is something we have to accept and JK will either sink or swim from his decision there.
 
Thank you for articulating it better than me lol...that's the point I was trying to make too lol

To me, it's as simple as more is experience is better than less experience...


huskon4ever! said:
But if he's just in an advisory role, how in the world will we know what his additions to the USMNT have been? What if he is in JKs ear the entire time with different ideas, and JK ignores them? How would we as common fans know these things? If we get blasted and don't win a game in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? Or if we go undefeated in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? None of us will ever know, but that's not the point. The point is JK is asking for some extra help/ideas/thoughts from a guy with a crapton of experience which usually is beneficial. So RR I'm with Drozz on this one... I mean are we even going to see Vogts on the sidelines? I would guess an a 'special advisor' he won't be allowed that close so his thoughts will probably come from watching film, etc. I would almost view him as another scout.

If you want to debate the hiring of Ramos/firing of Vazquez at this point, thats a completely different issue. Doesn't make much sense w/ 2 months to go, but is something we have to accept and JK will either sink or swim from his decision there.
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Agree on the bold....that's my point...makes no sense at all and you articulated it better....thanx...:).....and your right June/WC will see him sink or swim....thus my 'no excuses' comment on this...glad to see someone understands that....thank you...

As for Vogts who knows? I'm not sure anyone at this point knows what Klinsman will do....but, yeah he needs help and ideas.....that's painfully obvious....so okay I'll give that to you and Drozz.....

Oh and fair enough on your points....always enjoy a discussion with you....:)


huskon4ever! said:
But if he's just in an advisory role, how in the world will we know what his additions to the USMNT have been? What if he is in JKs ear the entire time with different ideas, and JK ignores them? How would we as common fans know these things? If we get blasted and don't win a game in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? Or if we go undefeated in qualifying, is that because of Vogts? None of us will ever know, but that's not the point. The point is JK is asking for some extra help/ideas/thoughts from a guy with a crapton of experience which usually is beneficial. So RR I'm with Drozz on this one... I mean are we even going to see Vogts on the sidelines? I would guess an a 'special advisor' he won't be allowed that close so his thoughts will probably come from watching film, etc. I would almost view him as another scout.

If you want to debate the hiring of Ramos/firing of Vazquez at this point, thats a completely different issue. Doesn't make much sense w/ 2 months to go, but is something we have to accept and JK will either sink or swim from his decision there.
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Drozz said:
Thank you for articulating it better than me lol...that's the point I was trying to make too lol

To me, it's as simple as more is experience is better than less experience...
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No prob! :) Sometimes we all just need someone else to say something in a different way :)
 
Red Reign said:
Agree on the bold....that's my point...makes no sense at all and you articulated it better....thanx...:).....and your right June/WC will see him sink or swim....thus my 'no excuses' comment on this...glad to see someone understands that....thank you...

As for Vogts who knows? I'm not sure anyone at this point knows what Klinsman will do....but, yeah he needs help and ideas.....that's painfully obvious....so okay I'll give that to you and Drozz.....

Oh and fair enough on your points....always enjoy a discussion with you....:)
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Indeed! :) All personal thoughts about JK aside, I know we're all wishing to see the US make some noise come June and hopefully we'll see some good things! I know sometimes we don't see 'pretty' looking soccer played by our side, but when it comes to the WC, I won't care at all about that as long as we see some good results. Sure we're in the group of death and advancing will be difficult, but doesn't mean impossible! :)

And absolutely! If I was closer to Cali, I would love to meet up and watch some of the WC together... I guess HuskerMax will have to do! :)
 

:)

huskon4ever! said:
Indeed! :) All personal thoughts about JK aside, I know we're all wishing to see the US make some noise come June and hopefully we'll see some good things! I know sometimes we don't see 'pretty' looking soccer played by our side, but when it comes to the WC, I won't care at all about that as long as we see some good results. Sure we're in the group of death and advancing will be difficult, but doesn't mean impossible! :)

And absolutely! If I was closer to Cali, I would love to meet up and watch some of the WC together... I guess HuskerMax will have to do! :)
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