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Struggling to Finish

What a revolking situation this S&C stuff has turned into! I was under the impression that we finally found the right S&C to get the team physically fit and imposing. Almost everything I read however indicates there are major problems with the S&C program this season? I suppose the W-L record pretty much tells the story how many things still need fixing.
 

What a revolking situation this S&C stuff has turned into! I was under the impression that we finally found the right S&C to get the team physically fit and imposing. Almost everything I read however indicates there are major problems with the S&C program this season? I suppose the W-L record pretty much tells the story how many things still need fixing.

If body shape was a great indicator of performance then Ben Stille would be All-American.

He would have to stop giving up contain before I could say he's even All-Nebraska.

Duval knows his science. He's not exactly doing anyone wrong. He doesn't control the bad Xs & Os.
 
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In an effort to give you the worst answer ever, I think it’s both.

For example, we started the season with spots we were pretty thin, and then injuries happen and it makes it even thinner. Then you compound it by us just taking these guys over the coals in workouts and it compounds the issue. One of the coolest sayings I heard this past year is “you can’t tell the difference between an untrained athlete and an overtrained athlete.” Wondering if that’s what we are seeing, because we are working really hard, but how we do it doesn’t jive with CNS and the anatomy. Because minus guys that haven’t been lifting in our system (Washington), hurt a lot so they aren’t getting to lift as much (Robinson), or transferred in late so haven’t been in our system long (Daniels), or rehabbed at home all summer (Domann), we look incredibly slow. All of those guys I listed look different moving than 95% of our other guys.


We are incredibly slow, no doubt about it. “Speed kills” is vital at the D-1 level. Once TO realized this component and made it a priority to recruit that dynamic, the program took a significant step towards greatness. It is not a matter of training or not training. It is a recruiting issue, IMHO.
 
If body shape was a great indicator of performance then Ben Stille would be All-American.

He would have to stop giving up contain before I could say he's even All-Nebraska.

Duval knows his science. He's not exactly doing anyone wrong. He doesn't control the bad Xs & Os.

Agree.
 



We have injuries everywhere compounding our depth problems, and we get absolutely beat down during the week. I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked the same in the 2nd half against Colorado, Minnesota, Indiana, and Purdue. We actually tied Purdue 17-17 in the 2nd half, but in the month of October we were outscored in the 2nd half by Northwestern, Minnesota, and Indiana by a score of 20 to 49.

Makes me sad.
Are we practicing too hard?
 
Are we practicing too hard?
Valid question. If you don't practice very deep into your depth chart then your starters take all the practice reps. Perhaps we do run a lot of reps in practice with the starters getting all the bandwidth from the coaches. It would explain the lack of both development and depth. What is that razor theory, Occam... Ockham. Something like that.
 
Valid question. If you don't practice very deep into your depth chart then your starters take all the practice reps. Perhaps we do run a lot of reps in practice with the starters getting all the bandwidth from the coaches. It would explain the lack of both development and depth. What is that razor theory, Occam... Ockham. Something like that.

Based on video that has been posted of practice, everyone gets a lot of reps in practice.
 
OK, so what is the answer? I don't think it is a secret that you are not sold on the S & C right now.

I am really tired of the excuses though. Play some football and win some games. Win the games you can win. Oh that's right, we have one game left that we probably should win. The other 2 not so much.

I just am having a real hard time getting over being angry about this Purdue game and in turn it makes me angry about the Indiana game. I get the lack of depth, get the youth, I get the lack of talent, I get the injuries, so what. No one told the back to the back up at Purdue that he can't win a football game.
I don't know if I have the definitive answer, but I can tell you a few areas I think we are struggling in that are self-inflicted...

1) Depth is certainly an issue, but you can't have Tate Wildeman, CJ Smith, Casey Rogers, Ronald Thompkins, Nick Henrich, Chris Hickman, Javin Wright, and Myles Farmer all have significant soft-tissue injuries stunting their development. You then compound that with guys like Adrian Martinez, Mo Washington, Wandale Robinson, Luke McCaffrey, Cam Taylor-Britt, Noah Vedral, and Miles Jones all missing game time due to injuries, and that's a huge reason you are struggling to create depth.

2) I don't think we look great in space. I stated in another thread, arguably our 2 best sides on each side of the ball haven't been big in our S&C program Mo Washington (barely lifted), Wandale Robinson (hurt most spring and fall so laid off), Darrion Daniels (transferred in during the summer), JoJo Domann (rehabbed at home all summer), and that's not a great stat. Couple that with guys like Adrian Martinez, Matt Farniok, Boe Wilson, Jack Stoll, Brendan Jaimes, Ben Stille, Mo Barry, Tyrin Ferguson, and others looking worse, that's not great.

3) When the staff got here, fans were imploring Frost to keep Keith Williams due to his recruiting. But besides defensive back, that was the least deep position group on the roster, so it was tough to sell that. The staff needed to overhaul quickly, but that is a position in 2019 that is an issue. Why? 2018 recruiting class had 6 WRs in it. Justin McGriff, Katerian LeGrone, and Andre Hunt are all gone. Dominick Watt never made it to campus. 100% of the freshmen WRs you brought in from your first class are now gone. The other 2 WRs are JUCOs who made little impact in Jaron Woodyard and Mike Williams. You can't do that.

But other positions are that way too. What about RB? We brought in 3 guys from the 2018 class. Mo Washington, gone. Greg Bell, didn't even make it a season. Miles Jones, gone. It's a transition class, I get it. But for our 2020 roster, we will literally have zero players from Frost's first class still on the roster at RB and WR. That's not a Riley culture issue.

4) I think the team psyche gets screwed up when they are publicly called out on how they need talent upgrades and how bad we look. When it was happening, I thought it was weird to go there because many of the guys you were saying weren't good enough were who you were going to be calling on to win games in 2018 and 2019. In 2020 close to 80% of the roster will be Frost's, time to start looking ourselves in the mirror instead of blaming other coaches or ADs (I already think it's time but i'll give a pass).

5) Play-calling needs to put our players in positions to win. Just two examples, but defensive personnel matching so I don't have to hear PJ Fleck or Jeff Brohm say they exploited our LBs. Go look at the conversion rates of 3rd and 5 or more against those two teams and Indiana. We aren't getting home on the pass rush which means it's only a matter of time before the RB outruns Barry, Honas, or Miller. Secondly, I give Scott Frost some leeway when people are mad about play-calls due to RPOs not necessarily being a run or pass call, it's what the defense gives you. But i've been advocating for more 2 TE sets since fall camp, TE was our most proven commodity (besides QB at that time), and it only made sense to me to keep 2 TEs on the field when you know what you are going to get from them. But for some reason, we continue to go 3 and 4 WR sets, and then complain we don't have depth there. At the goalline, as many have mentioned, why not put 2 TEs there, especially when it's working against Purdue? You don't have to change your offensive philosophy to do that, you literally just have to call the plays to your teams strengths.
 




We are incredibly slow, no doubt about it. “Speed kills” is vital at the D-1 level. Once TO realized this component and made it a priority to recruit that dynamic, the program took a significant step towards greatness. It is not a matter of training or not training. It is a recruiting issue, IMHO.
That's fair, go look at #3 in my post above.
 
No, I think we are really scaling things back right now (especially with the two bye weeks) and with the injuries. That said, we are probably absolutely crushing people in the weight room this week since there's no game.
If we are, is this with an eye toward the off season conditioning program? I wonder, because crushing our guys right now with 3 games left to play probably doesn’t have a great deal of value, if we are focused on winning 2 of the next 3 games. A maintenance/rest/recovery sort of cycle would seem more reasonable.

But what do I know? I haven’t done strength training to train for an actual sport in over 20 years and even then I was just training myself. If we’re trying to get a jump on winter conditioning.....well that seems like it should be more of a December thing.
 
I don't know if I have the definitive answer, but I can tell you a few areas I think we are struggling in that are self-inflicted...

1) Depth is certainly an issue, but you can't have Tate Wildeman, CJ Smith, Casey Rogers, Ronald Thompkins, Nick Henrich, Chris Hickman, Javin Wright, and Myles Farmer all have significant soft-tissue injuries stunting their development. You then compound that with guys like Adrian Martinez, Mo Washington, Wandale Robinson, Luke McCaffrey, Cam Taylor-Britt, Noah Vedral, and Miles Jones all missing game time due to injuries, and that's a huge reason you are struggling to create depth.

2) I don't think we look great in space. I stated in another thread, arguably our 2 best sides on each side of the ball haven't been big in our S&C program Mo Washington (barely lifted), Wandale Robinson (hurt most spring and fall so laid off), Darrion Daniels (transferred in during the summer), JoJo Domann (rehabbed at home all summer), and that's not a great stat. Couple that with guys like Adrian Martinez, Matt Farniok, Boe Wilson, Jack Stoll, Brendan Jaimes, Ben Stille, Mo Barry, Tyrin Ferguson, and others looking worse, that's not great.

3) When the staff got here, fans were imploring Frost to keep Keith Williams due to his recruiting. But besides defensive back, that was the least deep position group on the roster, so it was tough to sell that. The staff needed to overhaul quickly, but that is a position in 2019 that is an issue. Why? 2018 recruiting class had 6 WRs in it. Justin McGriff, Katerian LeGrone, and Andre Hunt are all gone. Dominick Watt never made it to campus. 100% of the freshmen WRs you brought in from your first class are now gone. The other 2 WRs are JUCOs who made little impact in Jaron Woodyard and Mike Williams. You can't do that.

But other positions are that way too. What about RB? We brought in 3 guys from the 2018 class. Mo Washington, gone. Greg Bell, didn't even make it a season. Miles Jones, gone. It's a transition class, I get it. But for our 2020 roster, we will literally have zero players from Frost's first class still on the roster at RB and WR. That's not a Riley culture issue.

4) I think the team psyche gets screwed up when they are publicly called out on how they need talent upgrades and how bad we look. When it was happening, I thought it was weird to go there because many of the guys you were saying weren't good enough were who you were going to be calling on to win games in 2018 and 2019. In 2020 close to 80% of the roster will be Frost's, time to start looking ourselves in the mirror instead of blaming other coaches or ADs (I already think it's time but i'll give a pass).

5) Play-calling needs to put our players in positions to win. Just two examples, but defensive personnel matching so I don't have to hear PJ Fleck or Jeff Brohm say they exploited our LBs. Go look at the conversion rates of 3rd and 5 or more against those two teams and Indiana. We aren't getting home on the pass rush which means it's only a matter of time before the RB outruns Barry, Honas, or Miller. Secondly, I give Scott Frost some leeway when people are mad about play-calls due to RPOs not necessarily being a run or pass call, it's what the defense gives you. But i've been advocating for more 2 TE sets since fall camp, TE was our most proven commodity (besides QB at that time), and it only made sense to me to keep 2 TEs on the field when you know what you are going to get from them. But for some reason, we continue to go 3 and 4 WR sets, and then complain we don't have depth there. At the goalline, as many have mentioned, why not put 2 TEs there, especially when it's working against Purdue? You don't have to change your offensive philosophy to do that, you literally just have to call the plays to your teams strengths.

*** as I said in my last paragraph. I am tired of it. The 2-5 Purdue team that has been decimated by injuries way worse than Nebraska just came out and won the game, because they were better coached and frankly just wanted it more. You win the turnover battle, you win the penalty battle by a big margin, you win special teams. The other team is down to its 3rd string walk on QB and you still can't win the game. He goes 6 of 6 on a game winning drive. Your preseason heisman candidate goes 1 or 4 for 7 yards and that's the game.

All the head and assistant coaches in this conference are sitting around with a smirk on their face because SF can't field a competitive team. "You better get us now, because watch out in 2019" They're not even going to get to a bowl game because they can't or won't do the things that it takes to win a game. Two TE? isn't what we want to do. Why not throw to the TE more? Well, they are an option. Why don't they design up a few plays to get the ball specifically to the TE. For 2 straight years we see the TE catching passes all over the place in the spring game and they are completely underused in the season. They design plays to specifically get Robinson the ball and that is it.

Everyone was super pissed about the Minnesota game. That game didn't bug me, Minnesota is good and took it to us form the get go. These games bug the hell out of me. Colorado, Indiana, and Purdue these games that to me just come down to wanting it more. I know that is simplistic but that really is a big part of it.

It's not getting any easier next year.
 



Based on video that has been posted of practice, everyone gets a lot of reps in practice.
Did Jurgens steal your girlfriend or something? You seem to have an unhealthy obsession/hatred of him.
Next thing you know, you'll spend hours poring over video of him, and stalkerish.ly cobble together some clips to post just so you can prove to someone how much you hate him, and show the world how smrt you think you are
 
If we are, is this with an eye toward the off season conditioning program? I wonder, because crushing our guys right now with 3 games left to play probably doesn’t have a great deal of value, if we are focused on winning 2 of the next 3 games. A maintenance/rest/recovery sort of cycle would seem more reasonable.

But what do I know? I haven’t done strength training to train for an actual sport in over 20 years and even then I was just training myself. If we’re trying to get a jump on winter conditioning.....well that seems like it should be more of a December thing.
Crush may have been the wrong term. Guys like Robinson, Spielman, Barry, Daniels, and others just need to heal up for the 3 games left. But Frost has made mention of guys squatting 800 pounds during the week of games so I am unsure why it would be different during a bye week.
 

*** as I said in my last paragraph. I am tired of it. The 2-5 Purdue team that has been decimated by injuries way worse than Nebraska just came out and won the game, because they were better coached and frankly just wanted it more. You win the turnover battle, you win the penalty battle by a big margin, you win special teams. The other team is down to its 3rd string walk on QB and you still can't win the game. He goes 6 of 6 on a game winning drive. Your preseason heisman candidate goes 1 or 4 for 7 yards and that's the game.

All the head and assistant coaches in this conference are sitting around with a smirk on their face because SF can't field a competitive team. "You better get us now, because watch out in 2019" They're not even going to get to a bowl game because they can't or won't do the things that it takes to win a game. Two TE? isn't what we want to do. Why not throw to the TE more? Well, they are an option. Why don't they design up a few plays to get the ball specifically to the TE. For 2 straight years we see the TE catching passes all over the place in the spring game and they are completely underused in the season. They design plays to specifically get Robinson the ball and that is it.

Everyone was super pissed about the Minnesota game. That game didn't bug me, Minnesota is good and took it to us form the get go. These games bug the hell out of me. Colorado, Indiana, and Purdue these games that to me just come down to wanting it more. I know that is simplistic but that really is a big part of it.

It's not getting any easier next year.
I agree with you. Sorry nothing more to add.
 

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