Which EV are you leaning towards?

[FLAinCALI]

Ok, I am ending the end of day 2.

I picked it up with 90% charge 240 est miles of range. I ended the day at 69% and 180 miles of est range. I plugged it in for an overnight recharge at my Dads (110 outlet) and was back up to 90% 240 the next morning. Today I took my sister for spin but really didn't put many miles on it (working around my dads house helping him with things). I am planning on driving around tomorrow, running errands for my dad.

Pros: As a car it is pretty nice, it feels like a typical Volvo. It is really quiet inside and comfortable. Very solid fit and finish, doors all the way around feel solid. The acceleration is insane and this isn't a performance EV (and putting it in the sport mode is ludicrous).

Cons: the interior seems small for the size vehicle (again, typical for a Volvo). The windows are small and the driver's side makes a horrible squeal when I put it up or down. No spear tires (typical for an EV). Unless you are a Tesla there aren't a lot of good places to charge publicly.

Surprise: How fast it recharged on a standard wall outlet. When I plugged it in before going to bed I suspected it was going to add a dozen or so miles to the battery. To have it back to 90% was a shock.

I am going to run it for a couple days, try to get it down under 50%, and then charge it on a fast charger to see how long it takes.

Thursday, I am going to drive up to my sisters which will be a range stretch for it. I know in the past it has been a little more than a 1/4 tank for my Ford (when I lived here) so I think I will have enough data to figure out how a range plus trip (where you would have to stop to charge) would be like.

So far this has been a pretty positive experience. I don't think I would buy a Polestar 2 as it is known not to be very efficient compared to other EVs on the market. Also, I don't care for how small the interior is...other than that I like the car.

 

[FLAinCALI]

Just got back from the fast charger. I ran down the battery over the past few days and thought I would plug it in for 15 minutes and see how much juice I would get.

When I pulled up, there was a guy charging his Porsche. Had a nice conversation with him and his experience owning an EV. This was his first EV and he had driven it from NY to Naples (that is a pretty long haul). I asked what his experience was on that trip, he said no bad, not as time-consuming as he thought. He said did take longer than other drive-downs he has taken. He bought the Taycan instead of the Panamera on a whim. He has owned it for over a year now and said he probably won't switch back to an ICE.

He said a year ago, charging stations were horrible, but in the past 3 months they had improved considerably. A year ago he said half the public chargers would be out of service. Now most of them are in service (I think he was talking about Charge America in particular). Then we both had to deal with our chargers only giving us about 26kwh instead of the peak 150kwh.

With the slower speed, I decided to drop into a nearby store go to the restroom, grab a snack, etc. My 15-minute charge turned into 30 minutes by the time I returned, and I had only added in about 40 miles of estimated range. Also, a line was forming of people wanting to charge (and they were angry NYers that were starting to make an ugly sense -- one had an EV Merc and the other EV Audi, rich and felt entitled to the charging station).

So my 15-minute stop turned into 30 minutes and I got about 20% charge to my battery. Not really impressed with the public charging situation and what it means for range + trips. The Polestar 2 I have has an actual range of 245 miles. If I go beyond 120 miles, I could get back to my starting location without a charge. For anything past 120 I need to plan in a stop that will charge me enough to return and this could be anywhere from 20 minutes to 4 hours depending on how much charge I need and what speed the charger was.

I also had the pleasure of heading out today on a longer trip on a limited-charged battery. My dad wanted to take me to a place on the gulf for grouper sandwiches. We started the trip with under 50% charge and an estimated 110 miles of range. It is hot today so I was also running the air conditioner. I checked on the map for charging stations at or near the location we were going and there were none...for miles and miles and miles. According to the trip estimate, I had enough to get there and back and still get home with about 30% battery. Well the place we were going to was not open (still rebuilding after Ian...and yes we called and they had a message with daily drink and food specials). Then we got lost trying to get to another restaurant. We ate and head home stopping at the fast charger by my dad's house.

Tomorrow I am heading up to my sister who is about 100 miles away. The car is charging up to 90% at my dad's. Will take about 8 hours according to the car but we are in for the rest of the day anyway working on finishing up projects around his house. This will be a long highway drive. The next day we are going out for brunch at a place with multiple fast chargers, hopefully, there is no line for a charge and the fast charger is near 150kwh. Then I am returning it and flying home.

I will write up my thoughts on the whole experience when I get home.

 

[FLAinCALI]

Soooo a summary of my experience driving an EV for a week. I really liked the car (other than a few little quarks that I could live with if it was my second car), the performance was amazing, the tech was helpful without being intrusive, the ride and handling was very good.

If I was just using it to travel around a metro area it would be a great vehicle and do very well. If I had to go on long trips (beyond range++) not so great and if I had to go regularly on trips beyond range not a good vehicle at all.

I charged it mainly at my dads house which was easy to do and even on his 110 outlet faster than I expect (I was able to top the car off -- to 80% easily in a few hours -- 6 to 8). I did draw down the batter a few times so I could publicly charge and had 1 bad experience, 1 ok, and 1 amazing experience.

What I learned.

Talking to a number of long-term EV drivers at charging stations and also the rental people your real range is more like 80% of what the pack can do. Really it is more like 70%. This is if you want to keep your battery pack healthy over the long term. Also fast charging should be avoided and used sparingly.​

​

For long term health of the battery you should try to keep your pack from dropping below 10% and only 'full charge' to 80 or 90%. When charging try to schedule it so you do the majority of it on slow or trickle charging. Now if you are going on a long trip and need the range push it to 100% and use the fast charging along the route. Doing these things once in a while are not going to damage the battery pack but doing it all the time will quickly diminish the life span. Most EVs do battery protection that will alert you or protect itself from over fast charging or over charging the battery. If you need that last 10% to get to a charger also ok but realize that once you dip down there it will take a lot longer to charge up the battery pack.​

​

I did talk to two people that have driven long distances in their EV (one from NYC to Naples FL the other from Holand MI to Fort Myers). They said it was really no problem and using the car's built-in mapping system got them from charger to charge optimizing travel and charging time. The NYC guy said it was a little longer but he was able to utilize hotel chargers overnight mostly with a few quick fast charges along the way.​

​

EVs' instant torque is addictive. Coming back to my ICE with turbo lag has been frustrating but I also learned that consent fast acceleration will damage the battery pack with its fast discharge. Even in heavy Polestar 2 I could go zero to 60 in about 5 seconds. I had a lot of fun and with its low center of gravity, it held corners like crazy. But the fast draw on the battery pack isn't good if you do it often. It is there when you need it and when I need it I was thankful for the speed (had two situations I had to get out of the way of crazy people).​

​

Oh one more thing on public charging. Most public chargers will charge you per minute your car is there after it stops charging. In my experience, it is slightly less than what they charge you per minute for charging. So if you do rent don't do what I did and talk to your sister over breakfast for half an hour after it finished charging.​

Everyone has different needs and an EV isn't for everyone. Right now I can't really see getting one as my main car. I take trips more often than not that would take me beyond the average range of an EV. When I use apps to look up charging along routes, it really doesn't work for me. And the ability to charge at destinations isn't really consistent enough either.

If I was buying a second car it would make more sense as I could just use it to travel around the metro area and not have to really worry about public charging. Me personally I would try to get an EV with over 300-mile range. By 2024 I think the average range for an EV will be approaching 400 miles of range. Also at this point leasing could be a better thing than buying as battery tech is changing rapidly so at the end of the 3 year lease (2026/27) much better batteries will most likely be available.

Sorry for the long post...let me know if you have any questions or if I need to clarify anything.

 

[FLAinCALI]

They are failing big time... a lot of flash not a lot of substance.

US startups worth betting on (IMO)

Tesla
Lucid
Rivian
Canoo
Aptera

Pretty much in that order.

Uggg

Little over 6 months…

Tesla still a juggernaut.
Lucid is burning thru cash and production is still an issue.
Rivian is in the ICU…could still make it but not looking good.
Canoo is pulling in the order but having delays getting product going.
Aptera is almost a go in production but having trouble in the tighter capital market of 2023.

Lucid and Rivian have made it to market but have been plagued with issues keeping production below what they need.

If Canoo can get into production they have thousands of pre-orders. If they hit those orders they will survive (and I think Apple made a mistake passing on them).

Aptera is going to be the VW Beetle of EVs…they just have to make it into production.

The longer it takes for the 4 to spin up the less likely it is they survive as legacy start moving big time into the space in the next 2 to 3 years.

 

[RedStones]

I just have no interest in an EV. I've always been a car guy and I love muscle cars. I love the sound. I love the smells. I love the power.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen some incredible speed challenges with EV's and don't doubt their impressive 0 to 60 times.

Maybe when the technology becomes more mature and reliable I'll be more interested but for now I tow a camper, boat, and a car hauler trailer. Each requires power and endurance. EV's aren't there yet. Until they can go as far as a gas engine pulling a heavy load, they aren't even an option.

And if the whole vehicle including batteries won't last at least 150,000 miles (on average), it's not mature enough to be of interest to me.

 

[FLAinCALI]

I just have no interest in an EV. I've always been a car guy and I love muscle cars. I love the sound. I love the smells. I love the power.

Don't get me wrong. I've seen some incredible speed challenges with EV's and don't doubt their impressive 0 to 60 times.

Maybe when the technology becomes more mature and reliable I'll be more interested but for now I tow a camper, boat, and a car hauler trailer. Each requires power and endurance. EV's aren't there yet. Until they can go as far as a gas engine pulling a heavy load, they aren't even an option.

And if the whole vehicle including batteries won't last at least 150,000 miles (on average), it's not mature enough to be of interest to me.

I don’t think EVs are for everyone or every use case. There are good reasons for ICE and EVs. People should decide what is best for them and not be forced into one or the other.

Tesla has the longest run at EVs and they are seeing their batteries last well beyond 150,000…with little range loss.

 

[CrabHusker]

I don’t think EVs are for everyone or every use case. There are good reasons for ICE and EVs. People should decide what is best for them and not be forced into one or the other.

Tesla has the longest run at EVs and they are seeing their batteries last well beyond 150,000…with little range loss.

The bolded is absolutely correct. If you're in a major city, with short commutes and a lot of charging options outside of your own home, great. Its likely a solid option. One of my former co-workers has a Tesla and when he does have issues with it, and he does, he's in a rental while they're waiting for parts. The waits have been months long. This from the longest tenured manufacturer out there.

I've seen some fairly conservative estimates at the length of time it would take to get the US to the point where we could functionally serve even 50% of the vehicles being EV across the country and it's decades. Outside of metropolitan areas, we're just not close. We also don't talk much about the issues with the construction of batteries and the overall environmental impact the EV has outside of it's completed product, running down the road. They've come a long, long way, but they aren't the environmental silver bullet some think they are.

 

[FLAinCALI]

The bolded is absolutely correct. If you're in a major city, with short commutes and a lot of charging options outside of your own home, great. Its likely a solid option. One of my former co-workers has a Tesla and when he does have issues with it, and he does, he's in a rental while they're waiting for parts. The waits have been months long. This from the longest tenured manufacturer out there.

I've seen some fairly conservative estimates at the length of time it would take to get the US to the point where we could functionally serve even 50% of the vehicles being EV across the country and it's decades. Outside of metropolitan areas, we're just not close. We also don't talk much about the issues with the construction of batteries and the overall environmental impact the EV has outside of it's completed product, running down the road. They've come a long, long way, but they aren't the environmental silver bullet some think they are.

I have never seen EVs as some solution to climate change or more environmentally better than ICE. Saying that the tech, material, and material life cycle for EVs is maturing pretty rapidly.

Because capitalism hates waste, solutions are being found to deal with EOL batteries which they break backdown into core components to be used again in new batteries. New batteries are using far less rare earths. The Geothermal plants at the Salton Sea are now capturing lithium from their waste sludge and processing it for use in batteries (when those plants get totally ramped up they should supply 120% of project US demand...and there are other deposits in the US being tapped, the US will be a net exporter of Lithium in the near future).

I really don't care about carbon neutral, sustainable, etc...if people that use those words in every other sentence really cared about those things they wouldn't be building that 'sustainable building/carbon neutral' car, plant, building, etc. Not doing it is probably the best and only true carbon neutral or sustainable path.

I care about the environment, and in densely populated areas like cities and urban areas going EV makes sense because of the much lower emission concentration. Sure their electricity needs to be generated somewhere but even if it is coal those plants (newer) have scrubbers and aren't usually in densely populated areas. Preferably I like distributed grids (with the use of solar panels and batteries packs) that augment nuclear, NG, coal baseload generated capacity.

For the urban situation EV cars, buses, lite duty trucks, even short-haul semis could go a long way to making those environments much better and cleaner. Rural areas don't really see a benefit from going this way but hey if someone in the country wants an EV go for it.

(and I am no way into banning ICE from cites, I think they should be encouraged with infrastructure and municipalities looking at the benefits of using them in their fleets. There isn't the need for a 100% switch, even 20 to 30% switch over time would be beneficial.)

 

[BigRedMax]

Have had the Ioniq 5 for a couple of months now and really like it. Still have the 2018 F-150 for the ICE car.

 

[FLAinCALI]

I just ended another week living with an EV. I had a Polestar 2 again done in FL.

A similar experience to last time but with less charging drama. I had no trouble fast charging at any of the fast chargers I used. I fast-charged twice, trickle charged at my Dad's twice.

The big test was I drove it to my niece's wedding, which was a round trip 110% (not including the buffer) of the range of the car. I took a huge leap of faith seeing the venue had a level two charger and only one other place to charge at about the halfway point.

I got to the venue with 43% charge left and plugged in. The wedding and reception was 4 hours. The level two charger got us to 69% and we arrived back at my dad's with 63 miles of estimated range. The fast charger is close by and 24 hours so I waited until 9pm and went over and charged back up to 90% in about 45 minutes (it gave me some time to get some work done).

Good experience. I think for what I need an EV will need at least 370 of range is the floor. I could live with under 300 but near 400 range and access to Tesla Superchargers would sell me.

 

[RedStones]

Will this be how EV charging "gas stations" waiting rooms look. Will this be the new normal as people travel?

Travel stations during holidays are pretty busy as it is with people stopping for 10 minutes at a time. I wonder what it will be like with people waiting for their turn at a charging station and then waiting 30 minutes or whatever to charge.

It might be a business boon for the stations who can entertain, feed, and sell junk while people wait.

I also wonder how much power a station will need to provide. Will they need to be small sub-stations?

Just curious. Seems like we have a long way to go to be practical. Commuting is probably the right place to start. Long range travel has a ways to go. It will be interesting to see how this all evolves, and how stations evolve.

 

[FLAinCALI]

Will this be how EV charging "gas stations" waiting rooms look. Will this be the new normal as people travel?

Travel stations during holidays are pretty busy as it is with people stopping for 10 minutes at a time. I wonder what it will be like with people waiting for their turn at a charging station and then waiting 30 minutes or whatever to charge.

It might be a business boon for the stations who can entertain, feed, and sell junk while people wait.

I also wonder how much power a station will need to provide. Will they need to be small sub-stations?

Just curious. Seems like we have a long way to go to be practical. Commuting is probably the right place to start. Long range travel has a ways to go. It will be interesting to see how this all evolves, and how stations evolve.

I don't think so. I think ICE will probably make up 60 to 80% of the US fleet for another 20+ years. I also think that after 2025 we will start to see an average EV range of over 350 miles and much faster charging rates.

As the charging infrastructure rolls out there will be more choices. Drive for 4 hours, pull into a charging station to grab a meal, take a leak, or just stretch your legs. 15 to 20 minutes later you are back on the road going another 4 hours.

Just look at I5 or H99 between northern and southern CA there seem to be plenty of high-speed chargers every 20 to 40 miles most by restaurants. I could comfortably drive from Shasta to San Deigo with no real issue (looking at my app they are mostly available right at this moment). I95 between Boston and Miami looks pretty well populated as well with high-speed chargers.

This used to be a much bigger issue when charging speeds were very low and the number of chargers was pretty low. It has improved considerably over the past few years. With Tesla signing a deal with GM, Ford, and Aptera (probably more to come), they will probably be making more profit from energy sales in a few years than from cars. They have demonstrated the ability to roll out and maintain superchargers pretty quickly. They now have a new multibay install that can deploy 5 superchargers at a time (along with a mega pack and solar panels). Look for Tesla to become the standard in charging stations for most EV soon.

And really this is a US issue. Most other countries don't have the long expanses of driving the US has. Most EVs are built on a global assumption regarding range. We are a small market compared to other places (like Scandinavia, Europe, China) with much bigger EV sales.

 

[Native]

Currently drive Volvo xc60. Would love to get their fancy hybrid, (recharge) but there was a reason I bought the xc60 used. I don't have that kinda cash for a vehicle. 75K for the fanciest version. I don't doubt that it is nice.

 

[CrabHusker]

Will this be how EV charging "gas stations" waiting rooms look. Will this be the new normal as people travel?

Travel stations during holidays are pretty busy as it is with people stopping for 10 minutes at a time. I wonder what it will be like with people waiting for their turn at a charging station and then waiting 30 minutes or whatever to charge.

It might be a business boon for the stations who can entertain, feed, and sell junk while people wait.

I also wonder how much power a station will need to provide. Will they need to be small sub-stations?

Just curious. Seems like we have a long way to go to be practical. Commuting is probably the right place to start. Long range travel has a ways to go. It will be interesting to see how this all evolves, and how stations evolve.

Outside of larger cities, this is going to be an issue for years.

I am seeing a lot of newer gas stations (Bucee's for example) investing some pretty serious money in charging stations. They're still fairly rare our of major cities and that's going to be a problem for anyone that drives between those cities for some time. When I hear folks talk about it being no big deal, I disagree. With more and more electrical demand across the board, our power grids are already taxed in many areas of the country. We're constantly ADDING consumption on an already taxed system and it's going to be fine? I don't think so.

Great idea for big cities, if that's what you're looking for.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Outside of larger cities, this is going to be an issue for years.

I am seeing a lot of newer gas stations (Bucee's for example) investing some pretty serious money in charging stations. They're still fairly rare our of major cities and that's going to be a problem for anyone that drives between those cities for some time. When I hear folks talk about it being no big deal, I disagree. With more and more electrical demand across the board, our power grids are already taxed in many areas of the country. We're constantly ADDING consumption on an already taxed system and it's going to be fine? I don't think so.

Great idea for big cities, if that's what you're looking for.

Invest in aluminum and copper