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Where will Bo land?

In a list of reasons why Bo had better seasons in his first 5 or so years, I don't think who the AD was is at the top.

In short, the shortcomings we saw under Bo were primarily the result of Bo.
Who the AD was certainly had something to do with it tho. Who you can hire, who you can recruit, and how you should spend your free time not being told to you by your AD is a pretty big deal. The shortcomings that we saw were absolutely multiplied by how Bo handled them, so I think you are right there. I'm not trying to claim Bo is some mastermind coach, I just would have liked to see what he could do if we would have kept an AD that didn't insert themselves where they have no business. I would have liked to see what Bo could have done if he was given the resources Frost and Riley had. Maybe his recruiting shortfalls would have been alleviated? Frost has to get to 3 conference title games in the next 4 years to match what Bo did, that would be an incredible run and certainly solidify our thoughts that we brought in the right guy. I'm expecting a conference title the next 4 years, so that will trump everything.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that when we hired Steve Pedersen and Shawn Eichorst we had some of the worst runs in Nebraska football history. There's too much smoke there.
 
We took a weird and bumpy road but given who the coach is TODAY would you trade that for one more year of Bo or one less year of Riley? If things worked out ANY other way it's likely Frost is at Florida or somewhere like that. He may or may not be the next TO...but I'll take my chances on him over anyone NU has had or thought of since
You may absolutely be right... If Scott is who I think he might be it could be that the program needed to hit rock bottom to gain some perspective.

I guess all I really wanted though was a 2013 do over with a healthy T Mart and a happy Bo... I firmly believe we beat UCLA and Minnesota soundly and go into the Sparty game in the top 10..
 
Who the AD was certainly had something to do with it tho. Who you can hire, who you can recruit, and how you should spend your free time not being told to you by your AD is a pretty big deal. The shortcomings that we saw were absolutely multiplied by how Bo handled them, so I think you are right there. I'm not trying to claim Bo is some mastermind coach, I just would have liked to see what he could do if we would have kept an AD that didn't insert themselves where they have no business. I would have liked to see what Bo could have done if he was given the resources Frost and Riley had. Maybe his recruiting shortfalls would have been alleviated? Frost has to get to 3 conference title games in the next 4 years to match what Bo did, that would be an incredible run and certainly solidify our thoughts that we brought in the right guy. I'm expecting a conference title the next 4 years, so that will trump everything.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that when we hired Steve Pedersen and Shawn Eichorst we had some of the worst runs in Nebraska football history. There's too much smoke there.

I certainly agree that ADSE deserves a large amount of criticism. Moos is 10x the AD he was

But IIRC, Pelini actually was given more recruiting resources under SE than he was under TO. You can lead a horseface to water, but you can't make him drink. Bo and recruiting just don't mix. It's why I think he would be best served as an assistant coach in the NFL.

Bo was, and remains, set in his ways. No amount of resources was going to make him hire more qualified assistant coaches and no amount of resources was going to change his lackadaisical approach to recruiting. Would they have helped recruiting some? Yes, but the biggest problem with Bo's recruiting is his attitude towards it. JMO, of course.

But If you read YSU's message board, you'll see the same comments about Bo's lack of desire to recruit athletes and his tendency to hire underqualified coaches.
 
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Who the AD was certainly had something to do with it tho. Who you can hire, who you can recruit, and how you should spend your free time not being told to you by your AD is a pretty big deal. The shortcomings that we saw were absolutely multiplied by how Bo handled them, so I think you are right there. I'm not trying to claim Bo is some mastermind coach, I just would have liked to see what he could do if we would have kept an AD that didn't insert themselves where they have no business. I would have liked to see what Bo could have done if he was given the resources Frost and Riley had. Maybe his recruiting shortfalls would have been alleviated? Frost has to get to 3 conference title games in the next 4 years to match what Bo did, that would be an incredible run and certainly, solidify our thoughts that we brought in the right guy. I'm expecting a conference title the next 4 years, so that will trump everything.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that when we hired Steve Pedersen and Shawn Eichorst we had some of the worst runs in Nebraska football history. There's too much smoke there.


Though I don't disagree with what you have said, I do want to point out that in my opinion there is a huge difference in first-year rosters that were inherited by Bo and Frost. The difference in quality and depth of players was dramatic.
 



I certainly agree that ADSE deserves a large amount of criticism. Moos is 10x the AD he was

But IIRC, Pelini actually was given more recruiting resources under SE than he was under TO. You can lead a horseface to water, but you can't make him drink. Bo and recruiting just don't mix. It's why I think he would be best served as an assistant coach in the NFL.

Bo was, and remains, set in his ways. No amount of resources was going to make him hire more qualified assistant coaches and no amount of resources was going to change his lackadaisical approach to recruiting. Would they have helped recruiting some? Yes, but the biggest problem with Bo's recruiting is his attitude towards it. JMO, of course.

But If you read YSU's message board, you'll see the same comments about Bo's lack of desire to recruit athletes and his tendency to hire underqualified coaches.
Ya, once we moved to the B1G, they gave him some help. What I’ve been told is basically whatever Bo asked for, he got 25-50% of it. Probably on him for not asking for more and anticipating that lol. Terry Joseph telling Bo what they got at Tennessee really accelerated the toxic relationship. Because then they started trying to hire University employees instead of football employees.

I certainly don’t know if things would have helped Bo. My thing is I want to see people fail with the full deck that other people got, with the cards they are able to choose, not that are given to them. Riley being forced to fire a DC was BS. Mark phillipp being forced to not do the workouts he wanted was BS. Bo being told who to recruit and who he could or couldn’t hire was BS.
 
Would agree, and the records showed that.

Not that you're disputing it - because it appears we agree.

The only reason I felt it was necessary to mention was that they weren't the same circumstances and for Frost to achieve the same levels of 3 conference championship appearances in 5 years would be way more impressive of a job, though I thought Bo did a great job. I can only hope Frost can pull it off. Time will tell.
 
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We need to come up with some name for the law that when you fire a 9+ win coach you inevitably get historically bad results, and the guy you fired goes somewhere else and brings them historically excellent results. Happened with Solich from NU to Ohio, Pelini from NU to YSU, Richt from GA to Miami. No counterexamples. Three examples = scientific fact? Not exactly but let's proceed.

The question is, what do we name the law. The "Maxim of wins"? Or perhaps the "Maxim of wins (9)." I love parentheticals. And that allows room for expansion, like maybe if you fire a coach who wins three or less it always turns out well. Or zero. Scott Frost to UCF might be the best example of "Maxim of Wins (0)."

I also think calling it the "Solich dictum" would be solid. Solich as the first and most unjust case probably deserves the honor, if anyone does.

Solich is 106-75 (.586) at Ohio and he's never won a conference championship there in 14 years.
Pelini is 27-22 (.551) and has had 2 winning seasons in 4 at YSU, and one them was only 6-5.
Hardly "historically excellent" results.

As for "historically bad results" after firing a successful coach, Georgia is 32-10 (.762) under Kirby Smart the last 3 years. Richt was 145-51 (.740) his 15 years at the helm and had one losing record (2010, 6-7) during that time.
 



Solich is 106-75 (.586) at Ohio and he's never won a conference championship there in 14 years.
Pelini is 27-22 (.551) and has had 2 winning seasons in 4 at YSU, and one them was only 6-5.
Hardly "historically excellent" results.

As for "historically bad results" after firing a successful coach, Georgia is 32-10 (.762) under Kirby Smart the last 3 years. Richt was 145-51 (.740) his 15 years at the helm and had one losing record (2010, 6-7) during that time.
We're discussing Bo here, facts aren't really necessary.
 
Who the AD was certainly had something to do with it tho. Who you can hire, who you can recruit, and how you should spend your free time not being told to you by your AD is a pretty big deal. The shortcomings that we saw were absolutely multiplied by how Bo handled them, so I think you are right there. I'm not trying to claim Bo is some mastermind coach, I just would have liked to see what he could do if we would have kept an AD that didn't insert themselves where they have no business. I would have liked to see what Bo could have done if he was given the resources Frost and Riley had. Maybe his recruiting shortfalls would have been alleviated? Frost has to get to 3 conference title games in the next 4 years to match what Bo did, that would be an incredible run and certainly solidify our thoughts that we brought in the right guy. I'm expecting a conference title the next 4 years, so that will trump everything.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that when we hired Steve Pedersen and Shawn Eichorst we had some of the worst runs in Nebraska football history. There's too much smoke there.

It all goes back to Perlman’s influence. When you had a strong AD in TO, Perlman couldnt do or say dick. As soon as he had “his guy” in the chair, he could dictate what he wanted done to sabotage the football program that so interefered with his Precious.

Perlman is the Patient Zero of Self-Inflicted Mediocrity until someone convinces me that a BOR or Booster called all of those shots above Perlman’s head.
 
Solich is 106-75 (.586) at Ohio and he's never won a conference championship there in 14 years.
Pelini is 27-22 (.551) and has had 2 winning seasons in 4 at YSU, and one them was only 6-5.
Hardly "historically excellent" results.

As for "historically bad results" after firing a successful coach, Georgia is 32-10 (.762) under Kirby Smart the last 3 years. Richt was 145-51 (.740) his 15 years at the helm and had one losing record (2010, 6-7) during that time.

We're discussing Bo here, facts aren't really necessary.

Certainly not @huskerator 5000's best work.
 
everyone loves to ignore context...

Solich will go down as the best football coach in Ohio U history... He has taken Ohio to 10 of their 12 bowl games in program history.

Bo @ Youngstown St has played the greatest dynasty in FCS history every single year and been in every game but 1... (2016 they lost 24-3 but ironically made it to the national title game that season). If he was coaching in any other FCS conference his win% would be .750 or better.

2015 vs NDSU L 24-27
2016 v NDSU L 3-24
2017 v NDSU L 24-27 in OT
2018 v NDSU L 7-17

Nobody save SDSU (national semifinalist) and YSU has been within 10 points of the Bison all season. Average margin of victory is just over 29 points...
 
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everyone loves to ignore context...

Solich will go down as the best football coach in Ohio U history... He has taken Ohio to 10 of their 12 bowl games in program history.

Bo @ Youngstown St has played the greatest dynasty in FCS history every single year and been in every game but 1... (2016 they lost 24-3 but ironically made it to the national title game that season). If he was coaching in any other FCS conference his win% would be .750 or better.

2015 vs NDSU L 24-27
2016 v NDSU L 3-24
2017 v NDSU L 24-27 in OT
2018 v NDSU L 7-17

Nobody save SDSU (national semifinalist) and YSU has been within 10 points of the Bison all season. Average margin of victory is just over 29 points...

Bo losing close every year to a great team doesn't provide much context. It's one game. It's great that he's competitive with the best team in the FCS, but I'd bet YSU fans have a higher standard. By my read, they expect to make the playoffs more often than not. Bo is 1 for 4 on that score.
 
It all goes back to Perlman’s influence. When you had a strong AD in TO, Perlman couldnt do or say dick. As soon as he had “his guy” in the chair, he could dictate what he wanted done to sabotage the football program that so interefered with his Precious.

Perlman is the Patient Zero of Self-Inflicted Mediocrity until someone convinces me that a BOR or Booster called all of those shots above Perlman’s head.

My theory on Perlman is that he initially didn’t want much to do with athletics. He hired Steve Peterson, because on paper he looks like the perfect candidate - he checked every box. Hire him and athletics is on auto pilot for the next decade.Nobody saw that train wreck coming, but Harvey took the blame for being out of touch. He wouldn’t put himself in that position again.

Fast forward to Bo giving Taylor the what-for at Texas A&M. Harvey and and Tom got a lot of correspondence from unhappy boosters who wanted Bo to get control of himself. Tom shrugged it off, but Harvey was rattled. Throw in Tapegate 1 and Hatgate, and Harvey had enough. He’s again hearing from boosters who think the program is in disarray under Bo. He’s not going to be accused of being out of touch again. He took full control of the situation. Tom wasn’t going to fire a 9-win coach on pure principal, so HP sped up TO’s retirement timeline unilaterally.

After the Steve P. fiasco and the departure of a legend, the stakes are higher. Wisconsin is widely regarded as the modern day Nebraska, so he rings up Barry Alvarez. Barry knows just the guy.

I do believe that one of the pre-conditions of the Eichorst hire was that he fire Bo sooner rather than later. Harvey is calling the shots now. He wants a coach whose decorum is beyond reproach, and only one name on Eichost’s list (which I have been told included Beilema and Whittingham) fits the bill - Mike Riley.

Ultimately, I don’t think he sabotaged NU football as much as he was just in way over his head. After Steve P. blew up in his face and Bo bullied everyone into doing his bidding (even TO to an extent), he decided he couldn’t do any worse as the shot caller. He was wrong.
 
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My theory on Perlman is that he initially didn’t want much to do with athletics. He hired Steve Peterson, because on paper he looks like the perfect candidate - he checked every box. Hire him and athletics is on auto pilot for the next decade.Nobody saw that train wreck coming, but Harvey took the blame for being out of touch. He wouldn’t put himself in that position again.

Fast forward to Bo giving Taylor the what-for at Texas A&M. Harvey and and Tom got a lot of correspondence from unhappy boosters who wanted Bo to get control of himself. Tom shrugged it off, but Harvey was rattled. Throw in Tapegate 1 and Hatgate, and Harvey had enough. He’s again hearing from boosters who think the program is in disarray under Bo. He’s not going to be accused of being out of touch again. He took full control of the situation. Tom wasn’t going to fire a 9-win coach on pure principal, so HP sped up TO’s retirement timeline unilaterally.

After the Steve P. fiasco and the departure of a legend, the stakes are higher. Wisconsin is widely regarded as the modern day Nebraska, so he rings up Barry Alvarez. Barry knows just the guy.

I do believe that one of the pre-conditions of the Eichorst hire was that he fire Bo sooner rather than later. Harvey is calling the shots now. He wants a coach whose decorum is beyond reproach, and only one name on Eichost’s list (which I have been told included Beilema and Whittingham) fits the bill - Mike Riley.

Ultimately, I don’t think he sabotaged NU football as much as he was just in way over his head. After Steve P. blew up in his face and Bo bullied everyone into doing his bidding (even TO to an extent), he decided he couldn’t do any worse as the shot caller. He was wrong.
All very logical conclusions. And a more positive spin on a subject that still has many of us po'd. We may never know the truth, unless someone's been inside HP's head.
 

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