USA vs Argentina Cop America Semi Final (6/21/16)

[HUSKER HOT SAUCE]

0 - 4.... HAHAHA

 

[Porkchopexpress]

I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this game. It sucked, but all losses suck. There's nothing wrong with admitting that Argentina is on a whole other level. That doesn't mean the USMNT is some terrible team that had no business playing in the Copa semis. I was more disappointed with the lack of offense and silly mistakes in the Colombia match. Looking back, the lineup from JK could have been much better. I think he went with his lineup because he was going with experience over youth, but in retrospect it would have been better to go with Pulisic and Nagbe. In the end, it wouldn't have made much difference, because there was no lineup that JK could have put out last night that would have resulted in the US pulling off the upset. And lets be realistic, the USMNT as a whole is very average (at best) when it comes to touch, decision making and working in tight spaces. JK can help with the decision making, but touch and confidence with the ball in tight spaces are things that should be fully developed by this stage. That's a knock on youth development, and something that needs to improve if the US is ever going to compete with the best teams in the world on a consistent basis.

Hopefully, the USMNT takes advantage of the 3rd place game. Granted, people will remember the loss to Argentina more than they will a potential win Saturday, but a good performance will help get the team's confidence back.

 

[HuskerNCorpus]

That's not the point and you know that. And you can't compare to many of those players as they don't play the same roles. But Wood has been playing fantastic... he really hasn't had multiple bad games in a row.

And in my opinion, I would say yes to Bedoya... he's consistent. He doesn't have JJs flair for offense, but he plays an extremely important role on the wing. A place that JJ couldn't/shouldn't/wouldn't play. Also its hard to say regarding Nagbe and Pulisic vs JJ... Nagbe is an attacking mid - something JJ doesn't play for the USNMT; Pulisic is a winger, similar to Bedoya but more attack minded, less defensive minded... so once again not a place JJ plays. But also Nagbe and Pulisic haven't played an entire match yet, so we don't really know what they're capable of... too small of a sample size.

To me, JJ really only has 3 similar players on the roster: Becks, Bradley, and Kitchen. He isn't replacing Bradley simply because he is the captain. After that it depends on the tactics being used and what formation we're in. I honestly believed tonight was the right type of game for Becks. He didn't have a good game, but nobody did - he definitely wasn't the reason we lost.

Anyway, yeah, all 3 are available for Saturday night.

Eh, I'm very confident that Jones is better than any of the MFs right now. His play in the Copa was much better than Bradley's, better than Bedoya's and Beckerman just doesn't have the legs to hang with Top10 teams. He was outclassed last night and looked painfully slow.

If JK is putting the squad out there Saturday night that gives him the best shot at a win, Jones is in the lineup.

 

[HuskerNCorpus]

I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this game. It sucked, but all losses suck. There's nothing wrong with admitting that Argentina is on a whole other level. That doesn't mean the USMNT is some terrible team that had no business playing in the Copa semis. I was more disappointed with the lack of offense and silly mistakes in the Colombia match. Looking back, the lineup from JK could have been much better. I think he went with his lineup because he was going with experience over youth, but in retrospect it would have been better to go with Pulisic and Nagbe. In the end, it wouldn't have made much difference, because there was no lineup that JK could have put out last night that would have resulted in the US pulling off the upset. And lets be realistic, the USMNT as a whole is very average (at best) when it comes to touch, decision making and working in tight spaces. JK can help with the decision making, but touch and confidence with the ball in tight spaces are things that should be fully developed by this stage. That's a knock on youth development, and something that needs to improve if the US is ever going to compete with the best teams in the world on a consistent basis.

Hopefully, the USMNT takes advantage of the 3rd place game. Granted, people will remember the loss to Argentina more than they will a potential win Saturday, but a good performance will help get the team's confidence back.

Not much to argue with here. It was an ugly performance against an amazing team. We should have performed better, but Argentina was heavily favored for a reason. The Copa has still been a success.

 

[Ellis Boyd Redding]

So was Bradley's play last night as bad as it looked to this novice soccer fan's eyes?

And wow, I don't recall ever watching Messi play before. Head and shoulders better than anyone else on the field. Wow.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

Not much to argue with here. It was an ugly performance against an amazing team. We should have performed better, but Argentina was heavily favored for a reason. The Copa has still been a success.

I'm leaning that way right now, but I want to wait and see how the 3rd place match shakes out. If the US goes out and lays another egg (which I do not think will happen) the tournament won't feel like a success, although the tournament will help the team's FIFA ranking.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

So was Bradley's play last night as bad as it looked to this novice soccer fan's eyes?

And wow, I don't recall ever watching Messi play before. Head and shoulders better than anyone else on the field. Wow.

Bradley's been a mess since the 2014 World Cup. He has moments of brilliance, but those are offset by his terrible decision making. He had some absolutely dreadful passes last night, and hung his defense out to dry on those. I have faith that he can pull it together going into the heart of World Cup qualifiers over the next 18 months, but there's no doubt he's regressed some. That may be a bit harsh, because Argentina has made everyone look terrible in this tournament, but Bradley has been very pedestrian at best recently.

Messi is amazing. I wasn't even mad when he scored on the free kick. That was a thing of beauty. It just sucks it happened against the US. I'm just glad the US doesn't have to play against him to qualify for the World Cup, and I'm hoping we don't see Argentina in Russia, because they look nearly unstoppable at this point.

 

[HuskerNCorpus]

I'm leaning that way right now, but I want to wait and see how the 3rd place match shakes out. If the US goes out and lays another egg (which I do not think will happen) the tournament won't feel like a success, although the tournament will help the team's FIFA ranking.

At one time, it was arguable that Bradley was our best field player (most would have still given that nod to Demosey). Lately, he hasn't even been our best midfielder. He makes careless turnovers that the Bradley of 3 years ago never made. He also used to be great on set-pieces, placing the ball with deadly accuracy. Lately, he's been very average to even bad at those.

His regression matches the timeframe with his move to MLS.

 

[huskon4ever!]

So was Bradley's play last night as bad as it looked to this novice soccer fan's eyes?

And wow, I don't recall ever watching Messi play before. Head and shoulders better than anyone else on the field. Wow.

I'm gonna go with it was worse... He's just so shaky right now. NO confidence at all. Hopefully that changes, otherwise I'm not sure what the US does.... unless Nagbe can show he is fully capable of being the team's creative engine in the midfield and we push Bradley back even further, which honestly may end up being the best outcome.

And if you think Argentina is fun to watch, you should check out a Barcelona game sometime... Messi, Suarez and Neymar is soooo stupidly fun to watch, it'll make the non-soccer fan an instant soccer fan. I can do without Suarez's attitude, but the skill level of those 3 means 3 of the top 10 attacking players in the world all playing in the same space. Its not fair, but its absolutely beautiful. Add perhaps the best possession and passing mid of this generation in Andres Iniesta, and you will see things happen that you didn't know were possible in soccer. Ok, fanboy rant over.

 

[huskon4ever!]

Bradley's been a mess since the 2014 World Cup. He has moments of brilliance, but those are offset by his terrible decision making. He had some absolutely dreadful passes last night, and hung his defense out to dry on those. I have faith that he can pull it together going into the heart of World Cup qualifiers over the next 18 months, but there's no doubt he's regressed some. That may be a bit harsh, because Argentina has made everyone look terrible in this tournament, but Bradley has been very pedestrian at best recently.

Messi is amazing. I wasn't even mad when he scored on the free kick. That was a thing of beauty. It just sucks it happened against the US. I'm just glad the US doesn't have to play against him to qualify for the World Cup, and I'm hoping we don't see Argentina in Russia, because they look nearly unstoppable at this point.

Like RR and I said during the match, yeah sucks it was against us, but beautiful to watch.

Also unstoppable without their entire team... easily half their bench could come in and immediately be inserted into our starting XI. They torched us without Di Maria, Gaitan, and Kun Aguero... Lamela (Tottenham) and Pastore (PSG) barely play, and Demichelis (ManCity), Zabaleta (ManCity), and Carlos Tevez (Boca Juniors) didn't even make the final 23 cut... unreal. I don't think any team in the world can touch them right now from attacking ability and with Mascherano running everything in the midfield, they seriously look unbeatable. Sure they have who everyone considers to be the greatest player in the world at the moment, but even without Messi, they're probably a top 5, definitely top 10, team.

 

[jikastew]

I'm gonna go with it was worse... He's just so shaky right now. NO confidence at all. Hopefully that changes, otherwise I'm not sure what the US does.... unless Nagbe can show he is fully capable of being the team's creative engine in the midfield and we push Bradley back even further, which honestly may end up being the best outcome.

And if you think Argentina is fun to watch, you should check out a Barcelona game sometime... Messi, Suarez and Neymar is soooo stupidly fun to watch, it'll make the non-soccer fan an instant soccer fan. I can do without Suarez's attitude, but the skill level of those 3 means 3 of the top 10 attacking players in the world all playing in the same space. Its not fair, but its absolutely beautiful. Add perhaps the best possession and passing mid of this generation in Andres Iniesta, and you will see things happen that you didn't know were possible in soccer. Ok, fanboy rant over.

That goes back to what I've always banked on when judging success at the highest levels. How many impact players does a team have? That number generally determines success. There are sooooo many good soccer players all over the world right now, that they balance everyone out. The difference is how many on each team can absolutely control the game from their respective position (the true impact players). Barca? They have 9 on the field most games. When you factor in the incredible year that Mascherano had......he probably qualifies now. Jordi Alba? Last year he was a weaker link on Barca. Really good in the past but not quite world class. The latter half of the season.....he was a true difference maker pushing forward. So, they will continue to have 9+ on the field. And they will be a threat in the CL as a result. See Bayern, see PSG, see Madrid. Then you have Arsenal, City, Athletico, Dortmund who generally play with 6+. When those teams get on a roll, they can compete on that level given the right circumstances.

Let's look at team USA. We have...........none. Sure guys like Brooks, Wood, Dempsey who recently have had individual games that get them up the ladder, but generally, no so much compared to true impact players. Did anyone on the field for the US scare Argentina and alter their gameplan? Nope. It's why the development of Pulisic and Nagbe (and the like) will determine our success in the future. We can only go so far with really good players. But most everyone who we want to compare ourselves to also have really good players. What matters are the true impact players. And our youth system doesn't develop them right now.

But I'm seeing good things over the past 5 years alone. My kids soccer club is directed by Brits for the most part. And that's in the middle of the country.....nowhere USA. The American coaches are ALL ex-college players who strive to teach differently that what was taught to them. You simply don't see Dads and Moms out there coaching 13 year olds anymore.

 

[jikastew]

Like RR and I said during the match, yeah sucks it was against us, but beautiful to watch.

Also unstoppable without their entire team... easily half their bench could come in and immediately be inserted into our starting XI. They torched us without Di Maria, Gaitan, and Kun Aguero... Lamela (Tottenham) and Pastore (PSG) barely play, and Demichelis (ManCity), Zabaleta (ManCity), and Carlos Tevez (Boca Juniors) didn't even make the final 23 cut... unreal. I don't think any team in the world can touch them right now from attacking ability and with Mascherano running everything in the midfield, they seriously look unbeatable. Sure they have who everyone considers to be the greatest player in the world at the moment, but even without Messi, they're probably a top 5, definitely top 10, team.

Without Messi, I'd wager only Belgium would be considered better on paper. Even that is really debatable. Maybe Germany or Spain.....

 

[huskon4ever!]

Without Messi, I'd wager only Belgium would be considered better on paper. Even that is really debatable. Maybe Germany or Spain.....

Without Messi, yeah, Belgium would probably be better on paper. Germany too. But I would still give Argentina more than a puncher's chance... With Spain I would go to our conversation in the other thread about Costa/Morata... unreal midfield, just need that class up top.

Also what's up with Brazil lately? With how much talent that team has, they should never be ranked lower than 5 worldwide.

 

[huskon4ever!]

That goes back to what I've always banked on when judging success at the highest levels. How many impact players does a team have? That number generally determines success. There are sooooo many good soccer players all over the world right now, that they balance everyone out. The difference is how many on each team can absolutely control the game from their respective position (the true impact players). Barca? They have 9 on the field most games. When you factor in the incredible year that Mascherano had......he probably qualifies now. Jordi Alba? Last year he was a weaker link on Barca. Really good in the past but not quite world class. The latter half of the season.....he was a true difference maker pushing forward. So, they will continue to have 9+ on the field. And they will be a threat in the CL as a result. See Bayern, see PSG, see Madrid. Then you have Arsenal, City, Athletico, Dortmund who generally play with 6+. When those teams get on a roll, they can compete on that level given the right circumstances.

Let's look at team USA. We have...........none. Sure guys like Brooks, Wood, Dempsey who recently have had individual games that get them up the ladder, but generally, no so much compared to true impact players. Did anyone on the field for the US scare Argentina and alter their gameplan? Nope. It's why the development of Pulisic and Nagbe (and the like) will determine our success in the future. We can only go so far with really good players. But most everyone who we want to compare ourselves to also have really good players. What matters are the true impact players. And our youth system doesn't develop them right now.

But I'm seeing good things over the past 5 years alone. My kids soccer club is directed by Brits for the most part. And that's in the middle of the country.....nowhere USA. The American coaches are ALL ex-college players who strive to teach differently that what was taught to them. You simply don't see Dads and Moms out there coaching 13 year olds anymore.

So true. We all sooo badly want to believe that we have world class talent, but besides goalie (and even that's been questionable since WC14) its undeniable we don't. Also I'm not saying they were scared by Pulisic, but he was getting a little extra attention with other players shading over, although that easily could have been as much their D hanging back more since they were up 2 then 3 goals.

And that's great you're seeing that. I would say we should be impressed as a country with where we have come overall in the grand scheme of soccer. Its competing with hockey for probably 4th? as most popular sport for youth after football, basketball, and baseball? That's tough.

I always look at it as how other countries are doing against us in basketball as a small measure (I know that's not foolproof)... We're going to end up sending less than an A team to Rio for the Olympics and if we come out with anything less than Gold (by a wide margin), we'll still seem to be a failure. When we get to the point of having to send our A team to make sure we are medaling, I'll be curious if our soccer team has improved to the point of really really pressing the big teams - a real shift of athletes from 1 sport to the other. As of right now, only Spain, Lithuania, and France could maybe make the game interesting, otherwise its blowouts everywhere.