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Thoughts on Pete Rose

CrnhskrBob

Husker Immortal
15 Year Member
It was always said that if Pete simply admitted his guilt, he'd be let in the hall. Obviously, though... I think he deserves it more than any of the juiced up players in the past decade or so... problem is, there was so many (probably quite a few we don't even know about).

I actually think A-Rod will have an easier time getting in the HOF than Barry Bonds. A-Rod came out and confessed at least. Not that he should be totally forgiven, but fair or not, that will make him more appealing to the voters than Bonds.
I don't think that would make a difference (admitting, that is) Steroids is steroids, period. It has nothing to do with admitting anything. They both juiced, period. Barry has many, many, more years and accomplishments than ARod has now. The only reason Barry wouldn't make it, and other juicers do, is the dislike for the man, period.
 

HuskerWeatherman

Husker Fan
15 Year Member
I don't think that would make a difference (admitting, that is) Steroids is steroids, period. It has nothing to do with admitting anything. They both juiced, period. Barry has many, many, more years and accomplishments than ARod has now. The only reason Barry wouldn't make it, and other juicers do, is the dislike for the man, period.
but they dislike barry because he simply won't come clean (besides being a jerk to most people). pete rose won't come clean, he won't get in. be sure that admitting guilt and apologizing is going to get you a lot farther then continued lies... .that's how life works. mark mgwire was another liar.

bonds had HOF talent regardless of the juice... but he's truly putting his status in even greater jeopardy by being dishonest. truly a shame that he had to roid up... because the man was one of the best regardless. but he fell into the "homeruns will make me 'the man'" trap.
 
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FCHusker

#1 Husker Fan
10 Year Member
but they dislike barry because he simply won't come clean (besides being a jerk to most people). pete rose won't come clean, he won't get in. be sure that admitting guilt and apologizing is going to get you a lot farther then continued lies... .that's how life works. mark mgwire was another liar.
So your saying keep him out because even though he admitted to betting, he hasnt apologized???
 

CrnhskrBob

Husker Immortal
15 Year Member
but they dislike barry because he simply won't come clean (besides being a jerk to most people). pete rose won't come clean, he won't get in. be sure that admitting guilt and apologizing is going to get you a lot farther then continued lies... .that's how life works.
It should not matter, HWM. It should be about using, or not using, period. Lieing is one thing, but it should not make a difference in voting. Steroids is the crux, not the lieing. Is it lying, or lieing? :lol: Oh well, I'll check it with google. ;)

Seriously, the only reason why Barry would not make it and others would (that used "juice") is the hatred of the man, period. I will believe nothing else, other than that. You can see and feel the hatred for him. ARod cannot hold a candle to Barry, even at this time. Yet, he will get more votes. That, my friend, is a crock. No pun (my last name) intended. (Crockford) :)
 
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CrnhskrBob

Husker Immortal
15 Year Member
So your saying keep him out because even though he admitted to betting, he hasnt apologized???
He has apologized...in his own words, of course. He has shown remorse, yet he still makes excuses, or he still tries to downplay his error
of judgement.
 
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escalarte

Recruit
5 Year Member
I kinda always wonder in the back of my mind if Petey wont get in posthumously?????
Shoeless Joe never got in. I remember Bill James writing in one of his abstracts that in his view Shoeless Joe should get in BEFORE Pete. I say no to both as player/manager betting inevitably leads to fixing and then there is no baseball worth following. None. Nada. Permanent ineligibility is a suitable marker for this fundamental truth.
 

HUSKER 4 EVER

All Big 10
15 Year Member
Shoe;ess.Pete and ALL the juiced players Mark, Berry, Sammy, Rodger...just to name a few do not deserve the HOF IMO. Stats wise yes, but intergrity-wise mo way. However If they vote ANY of the juiced players in then they should also vote in guys like Shoeless and Pete as well.
 

Prairie Sage1

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
In the discussion of the "steroid" era a few points are usually overlooked.

First, for the greater part of the 90's, while the use of steroids was against the law, they were not tested for by baseball, unlike other sports, even college football. So they may have been "cheating" but what they were doing was not officially against the rules.

Second, McGuire and Sosa, saved baseball after the 94 strike and cancellation of the World Series. Many writers were writing and discussing how even the ball was juiced to provide for more distance for more home runs. "Chicks dig the long ball." McGuire and Sosa have now been vilified but I don't see the owners and advertisers repaying the millions they made from their home run spectacular.

Not just hitters, but pitchers were using steroids. If the hitters were hitting it farther, the pitchers were also throwing it harder.

The owners, managers, coaches, trainers and commissioner all knew what was going on. They may claim they didn't but they did. All you had to do was look at the players and their stats. Everyone was cashing in, wink, wink.

As far as cheaters, there are many in the Hall of Fame, lest we forget Gaylord Perry. Name me a manager in the Hall of Fame who didn't steal signs.

So we finally get to Pete Rose. In every clubhouse in baseball there is a sign reminding players not to bet on baseball. This is the ONE cardinal rule of the game. Don't get involved with gamblers or you will be banned. As a player and then as a manager, Pete bet on baseball. Unfortunately for him, this is the one unforgivable sin in the game. As a manager you have too many variables you are in control of, you can influence not only tonight's game, but tomorrow's by your substitution patterns. You can "fix" a game you're not playing in tomorrow by your decisions in a game you are playing in today. Baseball has been very clear on the matter for decades, bet and you're out. So, Pete, who is no doubt, one of the best to ever play the game is out.

One last thought, Pete is out of baseball and the Hall of Fame for behavior that was under his own control. Think of all of those who never got to play in the major leagues because of simply the color of their skin. Pete's crime comes with a punishment he was fully aware of. These other ball players never committed any crime, they never even got a chance to play.
 

HuskerWeatherman

Husker Fan
15 Year Member
Shoeless Joe never got in. I remember Bill James writing in one of his abstracts that in his view Shoeless Joe should get in BEFORE Pete. I say no to both as player/manager betting inevitably leads to fixing and then there is no baseball worth following. None. Nada. Permanent ineligibility is a suitable marker for this fundamental truth.
shoeless joe was found to have thrown the 1919 world series... the infamous black sox scandal. the dowd report that came out on rose stated that there was no evidence that rose ever bet against his own team. significant contrast.
 

HuskerWeatherman

Husker Fan
15 Year Member
It should not matter, HWM. It should be about using, or not using, period. Lieing is one thing, but it should not make a difference in voting. Steroids is the crux, not the lieing. Is it lying, or lieing? :lol: Oh well, I'll check it with google. ;)

Seriously, the only reason why Barry would not make it and others would (that used "juice") is the hatred of the man, period. I will believe nothing else, other than that. You can see and feel the hatred for him. ARod cannot hold a candle to Barry, even at this time. Yet, he will get more votes. That, my friend, is a crock. No pun (my last name) intended. (Crockford) :)
can't completely disagree with you, bob... yes, barry's general dislike hurts him regardless. like i said... it's also kind of a shame with barry... because i truly believe he would have been one of the greatest players off all-time regardless of the juice. but he does have 3 strikes against him: 1. highly likely used steroids. 2. has continued to lie about it -- even under oath. 3. is just not at all a likable person. you may say that 2 isn't that big of a deal... and that can be argued... but it certainly doesn't help his case.
 

Prairie Sage1

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
shoeless joe was found to have thrown the 1919 world series... the infamous black sox scandal. the dowd report that came out on rose stated that there was no evidence that rose ever bet against his own team. significant contrast.
Shoeless Joe led the 1919 World Series in hitting. He took the money but never made a questionable play in the Series. Betting against your team has nothing to do with it. You bet end of story.
 

HuskerWeatherman

Husker Fan
15 Year Member
Shoeless Joe led the 1919 World Series in hitting. He took the money but never made a questionable play in the Series. Betting against your team has nothing to do with it. You bet end of story.
while i agree... the rule clearly says all betting is worthy of punishment.... there is most certainly a worst-case scenario when you bet against your own team and literally throw the WS. with rose, i mostly sit on the fence with his issue.
 
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escalarte

Recruit
5 Year Member
while i agree... the rule clearly says all betting is worthy of punishment.... there is most certainly a worst-case scenario when you bet against your own team and literally throw the WS. with rose, i mostly sit on the fence with his issue.
I had been happily obeying my personal pledge to let the Rose matter die last decade. As I recollect many credible people deeply into the evidence had the opinion that at a minimum, the "wonderful" crowd that Pete ran with, and his various bookies could easily have done plenty with what they learned from watching and dealing with Pete. Certainly, Pete's words of admission have little weight with me based on his record and conduct.
 
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