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The roster flip

HuskerSuperGenius

Recruit
5 Year Member
And yet, it is the same coaches who developed players quickly at UCF. At some point it comes down to the players. An earlier post asked why the Davis twins couldn't be developed. I think that is a great question, best answered by the Davis twins. I have noticed at times this year that they can be pretty undisciplined (past crucial penalties being one indicator), and if we want to branch out, JJD admitted he "tried to make a play" instead of doing his job on the Purdue TD. Sometimes, when coaches don't get the same results as in the past, you have to look at the differences in the players they are coaching. I doubt the coaches forgot how to "develop" in 2 years.
Of course it's the players, players play and coaches coach.

But someone has to get the players to do what they are supposed to do and this year that has not happened.
All the successful programs we are trying to catch (Alabama, Clemson, OSU, etc) have multiple analysts on both offense and defense so why would we try and catch these programs by being "short handed" in doing so?
So all I'm saying is if every one else has water at practice, why don't we have it too?

GBR
 

Bleed Red

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
I'd agree there. I'm not going to panic or anything until signing day, but I can assure you our staff thought we would be in a different spot. Both on the field and with number of commits.
If we were in a different spot with the former, most likely they would be in a different spot with the latter as well.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
If we were in a different spot with the former, most likely they would be in a different spot with the latter as well.
I'd agree there, but I posted this on July 31st when we were still 0-0 and everyone still had us pegged winning the B1G West:
But with that said, it's tough to spin positively that our coaches were feeling pretty good about being at 10-12 commits heading into the season, and we are sitting at 8. We felt extremely good about Malik Reed, Jamar Sekona, and Sevion Morrison. You then throw in top in-state recruit Xavier Watts leaving, Perrion Winfrey taking off to Oklahoma, Ajou Ajou loving us then Clemson swooping in
 

Bleed Red

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
I'd agree there, but I posted this on July 31st when we were still 0-0 and everyone still had us pegged winning the B1G West:
Yep, certainly true then...and true now...i was just saying that part of them expecting to have more numbers was them also expecting more wins. The earlier post asking if the staff does it differently if they know they are 4-5 instead of 7-2 right now was spot on. Many posters keep alluding to SF confidence and "bravado"....well, there is no way they expected to have Purdue and Indiana on the L side of the ledger when they looked at the schedule in July.
 

Brew City Husker

Travel Squad
15 Year Member
I agree. And I also understand from the staffs perspective that if the kid isn't responding to you, or it's just not a great fit, it's time to part ways. I just think they made their bed a bit here and it's not Riley's fault, it's the bravado they came in with (rarely is confidence a bad thing).

If we are going to use the "need to change the culture" or "we are young" or "we need more of our guys" narrative, go all in with it. Don't say those things to me and add "get us now because we will be dangerous in 2019" then start Jack Stoll, Kade Warner, Brendan Jaimes, Boe Wilson, Matt Farniok, JD Spielman, Khalil Davis, Carlos Davis, Mo Barry, Collin Miller, JoJo Domann, Alex Davis, Lamar Jackson, Dicaprio Bootle, and Marquel Dismuke from the staff and culture you are blaming things on.

So i'm clear, JD Spielman and Mo Barry don't have a culture or attitude issue IMO and aren't the problem, but what i'm getting at is don't use that as a reason then continue to trot the reason onto the field every Saturday. I truly think that's where a lot of the frustration comes from. If I told you on Monday a lot of my problems come from alcohol (culture problem not having his guys), and then say "weekend plans are the same, heading to multiple bars" (depth chart stays same with non-Frost guys) how much would you take me serious?
I’m not a real big believer in excuses of any kind. And there are some pretty good players amongst those guys that you mention. Maybe not the best idea to complain that your players aren’t good enough.....even if they’re not. I get that you need the chance to recruit to your system, but once you accept a coaching job the roster is yours and they are all “your guys”.

This all feels a little like Charlie Strong’s tenure at Texas. Maybe Charlie would have turned that around with a longer runway. It was once said of Bear Bryant that regarding players, “he could beat yours with his and beat his with yours.” The great John Wooden once said, “Never let what you can’t do get in the way of what you can.”
 

Huskerpilk

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
The hard part to swallow here is that SF and company are going to have to lower their expectations on who might be interested in Nebraska at this point. I really had hoped the momentum from Orlando would translate into a top 10-15 class this year. Not sure we're going to make it at this point.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
Yep, certainly true then...and true now...i was just saying that part of them expecting to have more numbers was them also expecting more wins. The earlier post asking if the staff does it differently if they know they are 4-5 instead of 7-2 right now was spot on. Many posters keep alluding to SF confidence and "bravado"....well, there is no way they expected to have Purdue and Indiana on the L side of the ledger when they looked at the schedule in July.
I'd agree. They looked at Colorado as a win as well after just firing their coach. I think even Nick Saban has do-overs he would want every year. I'll be excited when we have a veteran team here that Frost has a good grasp on for what makes them click. For as much as we blame Frost, Riley, Eichorst, or Moos, so much of it goes back even further to Pelini, Osborne, Callahan, Pedersen, Perlman, and others.

Continuity is what is needed. We will get there.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I’m not a real big believer in excuses of any kind. And there are some pretty good players amongst those guys that you mention. Maybe not the best idea to complain that your players aren’t good enough.....even if they’re not. I get that you need the chance to recruit to your system, but once you accept a coaching job the roster is yours and they are all “your guys”.

This all feels a little like Charlie Strong’s tenure at Texas. Maybe Charlie would have turned that around with a longer runway. It was once said of Bear Bryant that regarding players, “he could beat yours with his and beat his with yours.” The great John Wooden once said, “Never let what you can’t do get in the way of what you can.”
I don't like the excuses either. To your Bear Bryant quote, that's what i've been getting at with the "he needs his players crowd". If that's true, it really worries me. I feel a good football coach should be able to make football players better, not certain football players.

The good news is we are recruiting to what we want. So this is just a minor speed bump if that statement is true. We just have to wait a bit longer.
 

Brew City Husker

Travel Squad
15 Year Member
I don't like the excuses either. To your Bear Bryant quote, that's what i've been getting at with the "he needs his players crowd". If that's true, it really worries me. I feel a good football coach should be able to make football players better, not certain football players.

The good news is we are recruiting to what we want. So this is just a minor speed bump if that statement is true. We just have to wait a bit longer.
I hope it’s just a matter of waiting a bit longer. And I do have faith in SF and his ability to coach football, in their style and system. I’m not convinced that they couldn’t have done better with what they had when they arrived. I just hope we can win enough games to keep the better recruits interested.
 

ShortSideOption

All American
10 Year Member
I hope it’s just a matter of waiting a bit longer. And I do have faith in SF and his ability to coach football, in their style and system. I’m not convinced that they couldn’t have done better with what they had when they arrived. I just hope we can win enough games to keep the better recruits interested.
That's my whole thing, they pooped on what they had and we wonder why we are having effort issues or guys are transferring leaving spots like LB super depleted. It's why I say we could be 7-5 or 8-4 this year if things were handled differently.

That said, I still don't think it ruins our ceiling, curve just taking a bit longer to get ramped up. Would be nice to have some results to show recruits. That's why we are stalling right now. It's also why I think we are going hard at JUCOs currently. JUCOs know they have 1-2 years to see the field, where a high school kid for the most part knows they need to develop so they need to go where they trust the staff.
 

Yoda

Junior Varsity
2 Year Member
That's my whole thing, they pooped on what they had and we wonder why we are having effort issues or guys are transferring leaving spots like LB super depleted. It's why I say we could be 7-5 or 8-4 this year if things were handled differently.

That said, I still don't think it ruins our ceiling, curve just taking a bit longer to get ramped up. Would be nice to have some results to show recruits. That's why we are stalling right now. It's also why I think we are going hard at JUCOs currently. JUCOs know they have 1-2 years to see the field, where a high school kid for the most part knows they need to develop so they need to go where they trust the staff.
That might answer a few things. :thumbsup:
 

HuSkaBob

Husker Geek
5 Year Member
The failure rate of position switches is very high. There will be examples of it working, but for every one of those, there will be 5+ where the player didn't contribute at the new position either.
Cody Glenn and Stanley Jean Baptiste were fun ones! Lots of moves don't work out though.
 

HuskerSuperGenius

Recruit
5 Year Member
So far the only thing that makes me believe that the future is bright is the strength of the walk on program.

It looks like a lot of good kids, players who would have gotten offers from schools like South Dakota State, etc have decided to come to Lincoln and get developed into Cornhuskers like in the good old days.

With the 85 scholarship rule and the low population density in our recruitment area, the success of the walk on program is critical to getting back to where we want to be (see the Wisconsin Badgers, especially the o-line).

The fruits of this will only truly be seen in 2021, sigh, but they will be seen and were always part of the plan right from Scott's hiring.

GBR
 

we're back

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
That's my whole thing, they pooped on what they had and we wonder why we are having effort issues or guys are transferring leaving spots like LB super depleted. It's why I say we could be 7-5 or 8-4 this year if things were handled differently.
And it is why I don't think much of Frost as a coach. CFU was more a matter of circumstances than coaching superiority.
 

Californication

Varsity
10 Year Member
I agree. And I also understand from the staffs perspective that if the kid isn't responding to you, or it's just not a great fit, it's time to part ways. I just think they made their bed a bit here and it's not Riley's fault, it's the bravado they came in with (rarely is confidence a bad thing).

If we are going to use the "need to change the culture" or "we are young" or "we need more of our guys" narrative, go all in with it. Don't say those things to me and add "get us now because we will be dangerous in 2019" then start Jack Stoll, Kade Warner, Brendan Jaimes, Boe Wilson, Matt Farniok, JD Spielman, Khalil Davis, Carlos Davis, Mo Barry, Collin Miller, JoJo Domann, Alex Davis, Lamar Jackson, Dicaprio Bootle, and Marquel Dismuke from the staff and culture you are blaming things on.

So i'm clear, JD Spielman and Mo Barry don't have a culture or attitude issue IMO and aren't the problem, but what i'm getting at is don't use that as a reason then continue to trot the reason onto the field every Saturday. I truly think that's where a lot of the frustration comes from. If I told you on Monday a lot of my problems come from alcohol (culture problem not having his guys), and then say "weekend plans are the same, heading to multiple bars" (depth chart stays same with non-Frost guys) how much would you take me serious?
I agree with all these and similar posts. I do not mind them having those conversations with the team, but I really think Frost needs to learn when to shut up outside the room. Some of his comments this year and last would not have set well with me even if I was hustling and all in. I dont want to hear we suck because we dont have the right players, I wan t to hear how we are goiung to win with what we got. Even today, the "vast majority of guys are exited" statement just wasn't necessary, imo, and sounds like a built in excuse to me.
 
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