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Sopranos

Porkchopexpress

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
So it dawned on me a couple of months ago that while I have watched nearly all the episodes from The Sopranos, and knew all the major plot points, I had not watched the series in chronological order. After finishing the series this week, I have a few thoughts on what many people deem as the best show of all-time. These aren't in any particular order, and spoilers ahead, but really, the show ended 15 years ago.

Anyone thinking Tony wasn't shot in the final scene is kidding themselves. Sure, it would be nice to think that Tony goes on living his life, but no way that was the intention. It's pretty obvious now that Tony was killed, and the cut to black was him being shot. Sucks, but there was no other way for the show to end. I can understand people not wanting to believe that Tony was shot. I can't think of another hugely successful show that killed off its main character to end its run. Normally, Tony would have lived, so people can cash in on a movie or something down the road, but I give David Chase credit for ending the show the only way it should have ended.

I got the sense, especially in the final season, that Tony really didn't like his crew. It started to show when Tony was conflicted about killing Paulie, and then became more evident as the season went on. Killing Chris was harsh, but probably a good move for him long-term, as Chris was never going to get right. Tony could barely bring himself to enjoy the idea that his daughter was going to marry Pasty's son, because that would mean he'd have to be around Patsy more than he would like. I just thought it was interesting that Tony trusted those men with his life, but wanted little to do with them.

Speaking of Meadow, why they wrote her character to put up with that wet noodle Finn, I'll never understand. I guess it was to show that Meadow didn't want to end up with someone like her dad, but jeez, talk about a guy hitting way above his average. Sure, she was moody and kind of a brat, but we're talking about Meadow Soprano here. She's like in the top 5 of hottest TV daughters in history, and she nearly marries that schmuck. Additionally, it was very interesting to see the difference in racism between Tony/Carmela and Meadow/Finn. Tony/Carmela didn't really hide their racism, nor their homophobia. On the flip side, it's interesting going back and seeing how Meadow/Finn were written when it came to racism. I think the writers did a really good job showing those two as trying to be "woke" at a time when wokeness was just starting. Finn's comment about not wanting to work at McDonalds over a summer to stay in NYC with Meadow because that would take away a job from a minority was really telling. All in all, racism was a lot more prevalent in the show that I had initially remembered.

Also hitting above his average was AJ. No way a slacker like that gets with that many attractive girls. I could maybe see that happening while he was in high school, because of his parents' money, but once he dropped out of college. Please.

Maybe it's the sign of current times, but jeez, was there a lot of smoking in that show. Chris and Adrianna's apartment would have smelled like absolute trash with the amount they smoked. How no one on that show developed lung problems, cancer or bad skin from smoking is a plot hole, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know if the writers would have continued with Livia's character had Nancy Merchand not passed away, but I hope not. While her character in season 1 was great, that type of character would have grown very tired after too many more episodes. Janice filled that role of obnoxious family member pretty well. I felt sorry for Bobby, because he was to oblivious to see what Janice was doing after his wife died. He didn't deserve to be married to her. Also, for Bobby to go from someone who never killed anyone, to being considered high enough in the Soprano family to wack in the span of half a season seemed a little far fetched.

As far as killing goes, the amount of unnecessary murders on the show, and no one ever being arrested for those murders was a little too much. Paulie and Chris killing the waiter who stood up to them about being stiffed on the tip. Vito killing the civilian he ran into. Ralphie killing his stripper gumar. Elvis impersonator by Big Puss, Tony killing the snitch he randomly comes across taking Meadow to visit colleges. This one especially. So a guy that was a government informant against Tony's family is murdered during a time where Tony is registered at a hotel in the same area and it's relatively easy to pin Tony in the approximate area, and nothing comes of it?

People kind of hand-wave away the Vito storyline, but I thought it was a pretty good time capsule to how homosexuality was viewed in that time. Tony pretty much didn't care that Vito was gay, because why should that matter when he's good at his job, and never brought that part of his life to his job? Vito was gay for years prior to being outed, and no one had a problem with him. Now that the secrets out, everyone wants him killed? Then you had people like Phil and Paulie who couldn't stomach the idea of gay people actually existing, to the point where they'd force Vito's kids to grow-up fatherless. The only part of this storyline that bothered me was Vito showing up in a random Norman Rockwell New Hampshire town, and that town having closeted gay guys that just throw themselves at any dude that randomly shows up. C'mon.

Steve Buschemi was criminally under-utilized in his season on the show. My memories from watching episodes during that season made me think he had much more screen time, but in reality, he wasn't in the show all that much. Seemed like they had a good idea about a family member of Tony holding resentment about going away to prison and missing out on all the good money making, but for some reason it never really worked.

Another character that I thought the writers didn't do justice to was Artie. I understood his anger after finding out that Tony torched his original family restaurant, and that was a great arc for a minor character, but after that, they had to make Artie so pathetic. Like it would have killed the writers to make someone not on the mob scene happy and content. Artie had an attractive wife and a successful business. They made him too stupid to realize that while every other business in town had to pay Tony's crew for protection, Artie never had to, because of Tony. Sure, Tony rang up a large tab, but I'm sure he did that at other places, and Artie didn't have to make payments. Plus, his creeper nature with Adrianna and other young hostesses. It was totally unbelievable that someone in Artie's position would think he could pull Adrianna away from Chris. Even though Artie wasn't in the mob scene, he knew how that stuff worked.

The therapy scenes with Dr. Melfi were always interesting. I do think sometimes David Chase got a little too lost in the sauce with trying to be philosophical. I was kind of put off by how Dr. Melfi just suddenly decides that Tony isn't being sincere at the end of the series, and dumps him as a patient. Seemed like that was a bit too rushed, in order to have that plot thread wrapped up in time for the show to end. Dude had been verbally and physically threatening multiple times, but suddenly, because a colleague brings up some study, she realizes she can't help him anymore. Ok.

With all that said, the show deserved all the accolades it received. Gandolfini and Braco were great. The storylines all were well thought out. The humor was subtle at times, but really well done. It started a whole new way of telling a story on TV, and I don't know of too many shows that have since that have done it better.
 
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I still find it interesting that people found that show worthy of their time. It was a freaking soap opera at best. :thumbsup:
 
I still find it interesting that people found that show worthy of their time. It was a freaking soap opera at best. :thumbsup:

Never watched the show, I don't get HBO. All episodic shows like this are soap operas. From Breaking Bad to Mad Men, to The Walking Dead, to Game of Thrones. It just matters what you like.
 



I recently watched The Sopranos. By today’s standards, I don’t think it’s THAT good. At the time though it had to be revolutionary. It definitely set the tone for all of these epic television shoes to come after.
 
I recently watched The Sopranos. By today’s standards, I don’t think it’s THAT good. At the time though it had to be revolutionary. It definitely set the tone for all of these epic television shoes to come after.
MEH! It tried to be the next "Godfather" franchise. It was the flavor of the month and the month has since passed.
 
MEH! It tried to be the next "Godfather" franchise. It was the flavor of the month and the month has since passed.

How I imagine HHS:
giphy.gif
 
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So it dawned on me a couple of months ago that while I have watched nearly all the episodes from The Sopranos, and knew all the major plot points, I had not watched the series in chronological order. After finishing the series this week, I have a few thoughts on what many people deem as the best show of all-time. These aren't in any particular order, and spoilers ahead, but really, the show ended 15 years ago.

Anyone thinking Tony wasn't shot in the final scene is kidding themselves. Sure, it would be nice to think that Tony goes on living his life, but no way that was the intention. It's pretty obvious now that Tony was killed, and the cut to black was him being shot. Sucks, but there was no other way for the show to end. I can understand people not wanting to believe that Tony was shot. I can't think of another hugely successful show that killed off its main character to end its run. Normally, Tony would have lived, so people can cash in on a movie or something down the road, but I give David Chase credit for ending the show the only way it should have ended.

I got the sense, especially in the final season, that Tony really didn't like his crew. It started to show when Tony was conflicted about killing Paulie, and then became more evident as the season went on. Killing Chris was harsh, but probably a good move for him long-term, as Chris was never going to get right. Tony could barely bring himself to enjoy the idea that his daughter was going to marry Pasty's son, because that would mean he'd have to be around Patsy more than he would like. I just thought it was interesting that Tony trusted those men with his life, but wanted little to do with them.

Speaking of Meadow, why they wrote her character to put up with that wet noodle Finn, I'll never understand. I guess it was to show that Meadow didn't want to end up with someone like her dad, but jeez, talk about a guy hitting way above his average. Sure, she was moody and kind of a brat, but we're talking about Meadow Soprano here. She's like in the top 5 of hottest TV daughters in history, and she nearly marries that schmuck. Additionally, it was very interesting to see the difference in racism between Tony/Carmela and Meadow/Finn. Tony/Carmela didn't really hide their racism, nor their homophobia. On the flip side, it's interesting going back and seeing how Meadow/Finn were written when it came to racism. I think the writers did a really good job showing those two as trying to be "woke" at a time when wokeness was just starting. Finn's comment about not wanting to work at McDonalds over a summer to stay in NYC with Meadow because that would take away a job from a minority was really telling. All in all, racism was a lot more prevalent in the show that I had initially remembered.

Also hitting above his average was AJ. No way a slacker like that gets with that many attractive girls. I could maybe see that happening while he was in high school, because of his parents' money, but once he dropped out of college. Please.

Maybe it's the sign of current times, but jeez, was there a lot of smoking in that show. Chris and Adrianna's apartment would have smelled like absolute trash with the amount they smoked. How no one on that show developed lung problems, cancer or bad skin from smoking is a plot hole, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know if the writers would have continued with Livia's character had Nancy Merchand not passed away, but I hope not. While her character in season 1 was great, that type of character would have grown very tired after too many more episodes. Janice filled that role of obnoxious family member pretty well. I felt sorry for Bobby, because he was to oblivious to see what Janice was doing after his wife died. He didn't deserve to be married to her. Also, for Bobby to go from someone who never killed anyone, to being considered high enough in the Soprano family to wack in the span of half a season seemed a little far fetched.

As far as killing goes, the amount of unnecessary murders on the show, and no one ever being arrested for those murders was a little too much. Paulie and Chris killing the waiter who stood up to them about being stiffed on the tip. Vito killing the civilian he ran into. Ralphie killing his stripper gumar. Elvis impersonator by Big Puss, Tony killing the snitch he randomly comes across taking Meadow to visit colleges. This one especially. So a guy that was a government informant against Tony's family is murdered during a time where Tony is registered at a hotel in the same area and it's relatively easy to pin Tony in the approximate area, and nothing comes of it?

People kind of hand-wave away the Vito storyline, but I thought it was a pretty good time capsule to how homosexuality was viewed in that time. Tony pretty much didn't care that Vito was gay, because why should that matter when he's good at his job, and never brought that part of his life to his job? Vito was gay for years prior to being outed, and no one had a problem with him. Now that the secrets out, everyone wants him killed? Then you had people like Phil and Paulie who couldn't stomach the idea of gay people actually existing, to the point where they'd force Vito's kids to grow-up fatherless. The only part of this storyline that bothered me was Vito showing up in a random Norman Rockwell New Hampshire town, and that town having closeted gay guys that just throw themselves at any dude that randomly shows up. C'mon.

Steve Buschemi was criminally under-utilized in his season on the show. My memories from watching episodes during that season made me think he had much more screen time, but in reality, he wasn't in the show all that much. Seemed like they had a good idea about a family member of Tony holding resentment about going away to prison and missing out on all the good money making, but for some reason it never really worked.

Another character that I thought the writers didn't do justice to was Artie. I understood his anger after finding out that Tony torched his original family restaurant, and that was a great arc for a minor character, but after that, they had to make Artie so pathetic. Like it would have killed the writers to make someone not on the mob scene happy and content. Artie had an attractive wife and a successful business. They made him too stupid to realize that while every other business in town had to pay Tony's crew for protection, Artie never had to, because of Tony. Sure, Tony rang up a large tab, but I'm sure he did that at other places, and Artie didn't have to make payments. Plus, his creeper nature with Adrianna and other young hostesses. It was totally unbelievable that someone in Artie's position would think he could pull Adrianna away from Chris. Even though Artie wasn't in the mob scene, he knew how that stuff worked.

The therapy scenes with Dr. Melfi were always interesting. I do think sometimes David Chase got a little too lost in the sauce with trying to be philosophical. I was kind of put off by how Dr. Melfi just suddenly decides that Tony isn't being sincere at the end of the series, and dumps him as a patient. Seemed like that was a bit too rushed, in order to have that plot thread wrapped up in time for the show to end. Dude had been verbally and physically threatening multiple times, but suddenly, because a colleague brings up some study, she realizes she can't help him anymore. Ok.

With all that said, the show deserved all the accolades it received. Gandolfini and Braco were great. The storylines all were well thought out. The humor was subtle at times, but really well done. It started a whole new way of telling a story on TV, and I don't know of too many shows that have since that have done it better.
I really like your write-up. You have a knack for it.

I liked the series, but there were some issues with it that I think brought its overall value down. You did a great job summarizing a bunch of the plot points that were problematic, though I don't know that the unexplained deaths were that unrealistic in the 80s, and the people writing the script starting in the 90s would have been looking back at the 80s as their setting. My wife grew up in Somerset, NJ, and her family drove next to the Raritan River every day to get on I-287 to go to work and/or school. That river had dead bodies in it relatively often. You're right that by the early 2000s they wouldn't have been able to get away with so many random killings, but I think that it did happen like that occasionally in the prior decades.

The problems that I have with the series are mainly centered on the directing and the editing. A good director and a good editor will get the most out of good actors, even when the actors don't believe that they're doing anything special; e.g., Gene Hackman left the set of Hoosiers convinced that he'd be forever embarrassed to have been associated with it. There were a lot of moments in the series that were so realistic that they're spectacular, but there were so many other clips and scenes that should have been re-shot or else edited. When a good actor/actress doesn't come across as believable in a scene, I think that the fault lies with the director and/or editors.

Fwiw, I'd pick Breaking Bad as the best TV series yet made, but I suspect that others that are better will supplant it soon. I also thought that Friday Night Lights should have been much more popular than it was. It was a very well made show.
 



I really like your write-up. You have a knack for it.

I liked the series, but there were some issues with it that I think brought its overall value down. You did a great job summarizing a bunch of the plot points that were problematic, though I don't know that the unexplained deaths were that unrealistic in the 80s, and the people writing the script starting in the 90s would have been looking back at the 80s as their setting. My wife grew up in Somerset, NJ, and her family drove next to the Raritan River every day to get on I-287 to go to work and/or school. That river had dead bodies in it relatively often. You're right that by the early 2000s they wouldn't have been able to get away with so many random killings, but I think that it did happen like that occasionally in the prior decades.

The problems that I have with the series are mainly centered on the directing and the editing. A good director and a good editor will get the most out of good actors, even when the actors don't believe that they're doing anything special; e.g., Gene Hackman left the set of Hoosiers convinced that he'd be forever embarrassed to have been associated with it. There were a lot of moments in the series that were so realistic that they're spectacular, but there were so many other clips and scenes that should have been re-shot or else edited. When a good actor/actress doesn't come across as believable in a scene, I think that the fault lies with the director and/or editors.

Fwiw, I'd pick Breaking Bad as the best TV series yet made, but I suspect that others that are better will supplant it soon. I also thought that Friday Night Lights should have been much more popular than it was. It was a very well made show.

Thanks @Middle-aged_Ball_Coach

I can see what you're saying about the random deaths going unsolved. It makes sense, especially with the typical nature of mob families having some influence over law enforcement. The show did touch on DNA evidence becoming available for investigators to use, and that Tony's crew should be more careful when killing someone.

I agree with Breaking Bad. I think Vince Gilligan took the foundation that David Chase created with The Sopranos, and enhanced it with the flawed main character storyline. It was easy from the start to know that Tony was a bad guy. It wasn't quite as black/white with Walter, and Breaking Bad did a good job of keeping Walter in that gray area for a long time.
 

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