Randy Gregory Article - Struggles with Addiction

[Red October]

You were questioning treatment. Now what the heck are you talking about?

I believe you are the ignorant one here, you dont seem to be able to read and comprehend. I asked pops what was the remedy? He answered straight up you just came across as an arrogant ass.

 

[goodnterribles]

Even in AA they espouse the theory that once an alkly always so. Its the core of their program. You should know that. You miss the whole point of the AA program, what you say is ready built failure. Every recovery program in existence follows the plan of AA unless of course you don't follow the program. The program says you can get well but there are those that can't because they are mentally incapable. Your kidding yourself Pops if you toke or drink.

Everyone is different

 

[Show Me State Red]

Even in AA they espouse the theory that once an alkly always so. Its the core of their program. You should know that. You miss the whole point of the AA program, what you say is ready built failure. Every recovery program in existence follows the plan of AA unless of course you don't follow the program. The program says you can get well but there are those that can't because they are mentally incapable. Your kidding yourself Pops if you toke or drink.

The operative word here is program. AA has a good program but it may not be the best program for everyone.

 

[Greatest Fan of All]

Even in AA they espouse the theory that once an alkly always so. Its the core of their program. You should know that. You miss the whole point of the AA program, what you say is ready built failure. Every recovery program in existence follows the plan of AA unless of course you don't follow the program. The program says you can get well but there are those that can't because they are mentally incapable. Your kidding yourself Pops if you toke or drink.

I thought @Pops said he was addicted to heroin and beat it. He never said he was addicted to pot or alcohol. Are you saying they are one and the same? I don't buy that at all.

 

[Pops]

I should also say within different addictions some people have a harder time shaking it than others. It may have been harder for you than it was for someone else to quit, and in turn it may have been harder for someone else than it was for you.

The substance or process someone is addicted to isn't the problem, it's the wrong solution. The person has to get to the root of their problems so they can fight to use a better solution to their problems. Of course, that is a gross oversimplification of "curing" oneself of addiction, especially because for a lot of people you continue to battle it for the rest of your life, but it's a decent summary. And I don't think that's accepting defeat. It's exactly the opposite.

Absolutely! I agree with you 100%. People focus in on the drug rather than the problems people were/are, facing. Work as you say at the root of the problem and that is not the drug. For myself it was PTSD from military service and sever abuse as a child. I have to be careful not to let those issues surface. Yet I am far removed from my addiction that I can face those problems without turning to self medication.

Working in the addiction field and harm reduction field. Talking with so many people there is a underlying issue that needs to be addressed. Working on the exchange van the least we can do to help them is meet them where they are and show kindness, respect and dignity. That begins the process where we can begin talks of the problem. I never focus in on the drug other than the breakdown of cost/benefit.

What I meant by accepting defeat is just that. If a person is a minute away from relapse then they are still struggling with issues that were not addressed during relapse prevention during treatment.

 

[Pops]

Even in AA they espouse the theory that once an alkly always so. Its the core of their program. You should know that. You miss the whole point of the AA program, what you say is ready built failure. Every recovery program in existence follows the plan of AA unless of course you don't follow the program. The program says you can get well but there are those that can't because they are mentally incapable. Your kidding yourself Pops if you toke or drink.

Not every recovery program follows the 12 step model. To say once an addict always an addict is a horrible recovery plan as it only give the person an excuse if they relapse. AA has a success rate of about 33%. That right there should tell you something. For me. Smoking pot or having a beer is and was not my problem and it doesn't create a problem like I had when I used heroin. I was a evil person that 32 years ago. So no I am not kidding myself at all.

We in this country focus on abstinence based models and as I said they have about a 33% success rate.

When I first got into this field. I met a old gentleman while doing street outreach. He pretty much was the gatekeeper of the community I was doing outreach in. We sat many times and talked about what was going on in the community. One day we sat and he told me he used heroin for the past 34 years. He then pointed to his house that he owned and worked for all his life. In the yard were his grandchildren playing. He said he enjoyed the drug and no longer really used to get high but rather to maintain his life. I first though. I should try to get this person into treatment to make his life even better.

I brought it up to him and he gave me a go to hell look that I will alway remember. He said I should go to treatment...why? So I can meet the standards of what society puts on us? At that moment I realized not all people want or need treatment. Some can maintain their use and be very successful.

To say all programs follow the 12 step model is not true at all. More and more harm reduction recovery centers are opening up across this country. Here is one that has been and is very successful. It is a good friend of mine Pat Denning and co-founder of Harm reduction recovery Centre in Oakland.
https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/blog/harm-reduction-and-abstinence-based-recovery-compared/

The problem with the 12 step model is they are telling people that this is the only way to recover. Follow the program! I'm all for anyone that goes into that model if it truly helps them and I know enough that have used it. I know plenty that have used the harm reduction model, 8 step model, and the many other types of recovery/therapy programs.

So I would tell you to do some research and educate yourself on this topic. To say

Every recovery program in existence follows the plan of AA unless of course you don't follow the program.

is just a uneducated statement.

 

[goodnterribles]

Not every recovery program follows the 12 step model. To say once an addict always an addict is a horrible recovery plan as it only give the person an excuse if they relapse. AA has a success rate of about 33%. That right there should tell you something. For me. Smoking pot or having a beer is and was not my problem and it doesn't create a problem like I had when I used heroin. I was a evil person that 32 years ago. So no I am not kidding myself at all.

We in this country focus on abstinence based models and as I said they have about a 33% success rate.

When I first got into this field. I met a old gentleman while doing street outreach. He pretty much was the gatekeeper of the community I was doing outreach in. We sat many times and talked about what was going on in the community. One day we sat and he told me he used heroin for the past 34 years. He then pointed to his house that he owned and worked for all his life. In the yard were his grandchildren playing. He said he enjoyed the drug and no longer really used to get high but rather to maintain his life. I first though. I should try to get this person into treatment to make his life even better.

I brought it up to him and he gave me a go to hell look that I will alway remember. He said I should go to treatment...why? So I can meet the standards of what society puts on us? At that moment I realized not all people want or need treatment. Some can maintain their use and be very successful.

To say all programs follow the 12 step model is not true at all. More and more harm reduction recovery centers are opening up across this country. Here is one that has been and is very successful. It is a good friend of mine Pat Denning and co-founder of Harm reduction recovery Centre in Oakland.
https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/blog/harm-reduction-and-abstinence-based-recovery-compared/

The problem with the 12 step model is they are telling people that this is the only way to recover. Follow the program! I'm all for anyone that goes into that model if it truly helps them and I know enough that have used it. I know plenty that have used the harm reduction model, 8 step model, and the many other types of recovery/therapy programs.

So I would tell you to do some research and educate yourself on this topic. To say
is just a uneducated statement.

I think the point of what you are saying is everyone is different and every program is different. AA/NA has helped an awful lot of people, but that doesn't mean it's the right program for everyone. I have a friend who leads an alternative style recovery program, however he will still go to an AA meeting from time to time if he is feeling some weakness.

 

[Pops]

I think the point of what you are saying is everyone is different and every program is different. AA/NA has helped an awful lot of people, but that doesn't mean it's the right program for everyone. I have a friend who leads an alternative style recovery program, however he will still go to an AA meeting from time to time if he is feeling some weakness.

yep as I said if the person wants one type of recovery who am I to tell them different.

 

[Show Me State Red]

Not every recovery program follows the 12 step model. To say once an addict always an addict is a horrible recovery plan as it only give the person an excuse if they relapse. AA has a success rate of about 33%. That right there should tell you something.

Two good posts Pops on the underlying causes and effective treatment. Nobody talked like this 30 years ago.

 

[Trojan Husker]

The problem with the 12 step model is they are telling people that this is the only way to recover.

I think this is oversimplifying or misunderstanding what the 12 step model is all about. The verbiage you use when you lead someone through the steps is "this worked for me so it could work for you." If someone wants to move on and find another way outside of a 12 step program, that's great... but if you want to do the 12 steps, then you have to do it exactly this way or it won't work. That is at least my experience within the 12 step program that I am a part of.

 

[Pops]

I think this is oversimplifying or misunderstanding what the 12 step model is all about. The verbiage you use when you lead someone through the steps is "this worked for me so it could work for you." If someone wants to move on and find another way outside of a 12 step program, that's great... but if you want to do the 12 steps, then you have to do it exactly this way or it won't work. That is at least my experience within the 12 step program that I am a part of.

If it worked for you, that is fantastic. As o said one size does not fit al. Thereare many other options today. Find tbe right pne for the right person..tnat could be 12 step.

 

[goodnterribles]

If it worked for you, that is fantastic. As o said one size does not fit al. Thereare many other options today. Find tbe right pne for the right person..tnat could be 12 step.

Exactly. My friend is an atheist but he won't bad-mouth AA. He doesn't agree with their methods but at the end of the day they are just trying to help people get clean. That's what all these organizations want.

 

[berryhusker]

I believe you are the ignorant one here, you dont seem to be able to read and comprehend. I asked pops what was the remedy? He answered straight up you just came across as an arrogant ass.

It seemed more like you were being gamey or just contrarian because it is pretty well established there are a variety of treatments for SA disorders. Much like various cancer diagnoses and other diseases and conditions, there are a variety treatments or "remedies". They aren't 100% effective, and some are even less effective that those for SA disorders. That doesn't delegitimize the treatment that we have at present day. If you weren't aware of this fact, I do apologize for my language. Hopefully you weren't being contrarian but it did seem that way.

 

[CO4NU]

Not every recovery program follows the 12 step model. To say once an addict always an addict is a horrible recovery plan as it only give the person an excuse if they relapse. AA has a success rate of about 33%. That right there should tell you something. For me. Smoking pot or having a beer is and was not my problem and it doesn't create a problem like I had when I used heroin. I was a evil person that 32 years ago. So no I am not kidding myself at all.

We in this country focus on abstinence based models and as I said they have about a 33% success rate.

When I first got into this field. I met a old gentleman while doing street outreach. He pretty much was the gatekeeper of the community I was doing outreach in. We sat many times and talked about what was going on in the community. One day we sat and he told me he used heroin for the past 34 years. He then pointed to his house that he owned and worked for all his life. In the yard were his grandchildren playing. He said he enjoyed the drug and no longer really used to get high but rather to maintain his life. I first though. I should try to get this person into treatment to make his life even better.

I brought it up to him and he gave me a go to hell look that I will alway remember. He said I should go to treatment...why? So I can meet the standards of what society puts on us? At that moment I realized not all people want or need treatment. Some can maintain their use and be very successful.

To say all programs follow the 12 step model is not true at all. More and more harm reduction recovery centers are opening up across this country. Here is one that has been and is very successful. It is a good friend of mine Pat Denning and co-founder of Harm reduction recovery Centre in Oakland.
https://www.thecabinchiangmai.com/blog/harm-reduction-and-abstinence-based-recovery-compared/

The problem with the 12 step model is they are telling people that this is the only way to recover. Follow the program! I'm all for anyone that goes into that model if it truly helps them and I know enough that have used it. I know plenty that have used the harm reduction model, 8 step model, and the many other types of recovery/therapy programs.

So I would tell you to do some research and educate yourself on this topic. To say
is just a uneducated statement.

This ....Bolded and underlined.

Absolutely correct.

 

[ColoREDo]