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questions for those with football knowledge

GIFRRO

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
Why is our Oline so bad?
We've been bad for at least a decade but this years line takes the cake. Its just pathetic. I've said in other threads that if you correct the oline, then it solves tons of out issues:

TMART has time and can find opens guys, play calmer, make better decisions. The rbs can have some effective runs and move the ball. It opens SFs playbook up. Field position and ball control

While the D had a rougher game at Minnesota, they've played decent most of the year with the talent they have and yet even at Minn, we were down 14-0 at half. Big deal. If the oline blocks, we score 14 or more too. And the D gets breaks and the D doesnt eventually fold over the fact that the offense does nothing. Earlier in the year, we expected the D to give up points. Frost offense is suppose to be highly effective and its our achilles heal behind that Oline.

So I want to know why its so bad?

here some things I hear

1 - We are young and inexperienced! - no we are not. jaimes has 2.5 years as a starter, Farniok has 1.5 years as a starter and has a RS before that. Bo Wilson a full year as a starter after half this year and half last, including a RS year and playing time before that. Yes Jurgens and Hixson are inexperienced, but theres few olines across the country that doenst have a few new staters in the lineup every year. That amount of exerience is similar to other olines across the country.

2 - We are untalented - Well Farniok and Jurgens 4*s , BW and Jaimes 3* and then a walk on. Not the most talented group ever, but certianly plenty of talent to be solid.

3 - It takes time in a new system - Well these guys have had coming up on 2 years learning the system. plenty of time to not be horrible.

4 = They are not strong - Thats not what HCSF says about our teams strength under Duvall.

5 - These kids arent playing tough - Do i think Farniok and Jaines and Jurgens etc, etc arent tough or dont care enough? I have a hard time coming to that conclusion.

So what is it?

I have no idea and would like some opinions.

Thanks!
 
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HuskerSuperGenius

Recruit
2 Year Member
Why is our Oline so bad?
We've been bad for at least a decade but this years line takes the cake. Its just pathetic. I've said in other threads that if you correct the oline, then it solves tons of out issues:

TMART has time and can find opens guys, play calmer, make better decisions. The rbs can have some effective runs and move the ball. It opens SFs playbook up. Field position and ball control

While the D had a rougher game at Minnesota, they've played decent most of the year with the talent they have and yet even at Minn, we were down 14-0 at half. Big deal. If the oline blocks, we score 14 or more too. And the D gets breaks and the D doesnt eventually fold over the fact that the offense does nothing. Earlier in the year, we expected the D to give up points. Frost offense is suppose to be highly effective and its our achilles heal behind that Oline.

So I want to know why its so bad?

here some things I hear

1 - We are young and inexperienced! - no we are not. jaimes has 2.5 years as a starter, Farniok has 1.5 years as a starter and has a RS before that. Bo Wilson a full year as a starter after half this year and half last, including a RS year and playing time before that. Yes Jurgens and Hixson are inexperienced, but theres few olines across the country that doenst have a few new staters in the lineup every year. That amount of exerience is similar to other olines across the country.

2 - We are untalented - Well Farniok and Jurgens 4*s , BW and Jaimes 3* and then a walk on. Not the most talented group ever, but certianly plenty of talent to be solid.

3 - It takes time in a new system - Well these guys have had coming up on 2 years learning the system. plenty of time to not be horrible.

4 = They are not strong - Thats not what HCSF says about our teams strength under Duvall.

5 - These kids arent playing tough - Do i think Farniok and Jaines and Jurgens etc, etc arent tough or dont care enough? I have a hard time coming to that conclusion.

So what is it?

I have no idea and would like some opinions.

Thanks!
If you read Jeremy Parnell's column today he touches on a lot of these issues but to paraphrase some of what he says in reference to your questions:
1. Yes we are young and inexperienced in what they are now being asked to do. Being a "starter" doesn't translate if the system has changed three times, three different OC' in your time on campus. Plus we are playing square pegs (Farniok as tackle, not guard) in round holes. Parnell describes much more of this going on on defense.

2. We are untalented: That's unclear. The system of ranking of recruits is subjective, and the other part is how much the talent is developed once it is on campus.

3. Time in system. No two years is nothing. In Dr/ Tom's time kids waited 2-3 years to be seasoned enough to play o-line and know what they were supposed to do. Second part is each year the 5 guys meshing together, getting the line calls and then executing on each down.

4. Not strong. Two levels here. One is physical maturity of aging. We are playing 18-20 year olds against 20-22 year olds. A lot happens to physical development in those years with S&C in BIG Ten programs with the Big uglies :). Second remember, when Scott arrived and put in the new S&C, we almost killed (exaggeration ) DONU kids doing one half of the S&C that UCF was doing routinely! So no we are not strong, we are getting better but we see on the field that we are getting pushed around on both sides on the line of scrimmage by the bigger, more mature teams.

5. "toughness" Previous systems did not emphasize sustaining blocks, physical aggression or team over individual. These problem more than "toughness" have been slower to resolve than I think Scott thought they would be.

Then let me add:#6

Parnell went into great lengths to show how few players are actually left on campus from the recruiting classes of 2016, 2017 and 2018 due to injury, desire, etc. This has decidedly impacted where Scott stands with depth and playmakers in a rugged Big Ten conference.

IN think it is critical to get to 6 wins and a bowl game:
1. 15 practices
2. impact on recruiting for the December signing period.

To get those wins, we need impact players on both offense and defense from the 2019 freshman class to play in the next five games. Not necessarily enough to lose their RS, but enough that we find those two more wins, starting Saturday. Names like Piper, Ty Robinson, Banks, Raridon, Rahmir Johnson, Green, Reimer, Hannah, Garret Nelson are going to have to make things happen.

Sacks and turnovers on defense.
Inside run game on offense and consistent passing game in the 8-15 yard zone.

GBR
 

satcong2

Recruit
My guess and it is that, is that the O-line coach is the issue. Not sure how that works out exactly, but in CD's day and during Tom's era, both the O and D line coaches were real head knockers. toughness and strength were demanded, the schemes came after the aforementioned traits.
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
I certainly don’t know the answer. But your rejection of the talent is based on a false premise. You suggest that we are talented in the line because we have players that were really good in high school and projected as 3 and 4 star recruits. Perhaps they haven’t lived up to the hype they had out of high school. Not every 4 star ends up being as good in college as they were in HS.

You also reject the notion that they aren’t playing tough because you “have a hard time believing it”. That’s doesn’t really move the conversation along. If they are playing tough as you say, then they must not be as talented as you suggest they are.
 

MadRat

God, Family, Football
2 Year Member
I don't think the Raridon that showed up in the spring will be ready anytime soon.

And BTW, we do have talent. We have a toxic development cycle and even worse depth chart selection. But that is just my opinion. I'm sure it's all rainbows and unicorns to some others that disagree.
 
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BigRedOhio

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
In my opinion, our linemen are big, but not athletic. Until better athletes are recruited, our oline will struggle.

That being said, our TE's and RB's are poor blockers as well.... the Oline gets blamed for a lot of their misses.
 

goodnterribles

Regulators! Let's mount up.
5 Year Member
I don't think the Raridon that showed up in the spring will be ready anytime soon.

And BTW, we do have talent. We have a toxic development cycle and even worse depth chart selection. But that is just my opinion. I'm sure it's all rainbows and unicorns to some others that disagree.
Maybe if you wouldn't use such hyperbole, a conversation could occur.
 

djlhuskerfan

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
My guess and it is that, is that the O-line coach is the issue. Not sure how that works out exactly, but in CD's day and during Tom's era, both the O and D line coaches were real head knockers. toughness and strength were demanded, the schemes came after the aforementioned traits.
Also back in the glory days we had two oline coaches. The position had that much importance
 

MadRat

God, Family, Football
2 Year Member
To demonstrate athleticism from an OL player we'd probably need to display some movement and not try to play everything from the same three blocking schemes. But again, that is just an opinion.

GIFRRO-

If we were trying to help out an OL then I might roll my QB and try to be a little less predictable. I might even use a center that delivers the ball to the chest so the QB is able to concentrate on keys sooner. I might even throw some slants, fades, and crossing routes or delayed drags. I might even run some mesh combinations to get receivers some space so the OL don't have to hold blocks all day. I might even be creative with motion and use formations to conceal my intentions. But you wanted to hear from someone that knows football, so I'm going to sit back and wait to see the answers.

Maybe if you wouldn't use such hyperbole, a conversation could occur.
Fat chance.
 
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goodnterribles

Regulators! Let's mount up.
5 Year Member
To demonstrate athleticism from an OL player we'd probably need to display some movement and not try to play everything from the same three blocking schemes. But again, that is just an opinion.

GIFRRO-

If we were trying to help out an OL then I might roll my QB and try to be a little less predictable. I might even use a center that delivers the ball to the chest so the QB is able to concentrate on keys sooner. I might even throw some slants, fades, and crossing routes or delayed drags. I might even run some mesh combinations to get receivers some space so the OL don't have to hold blocks all day. I might even be creative with motion and use formations to conceal my intentions. But you wanted to hear from someone that knows football, so I'm going to sit back and wait to see the answers.


Fat chance.
When you use adjectives like "toxic", what type of discussion do you expect?
 

Vinosker

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
Why is our Oline so bad?
We've been bad for at least a decade but this years line takes the cake. Its just pathetic. I've said in other threads that if you correct the oline, then it solves tons of out issues:

TMART has time and can find opens guys, play calmer, make better decisions. The rbs can have some effective runs and move the ball. It opens SFs playbook up. Field position and ball control

While the D had a rougher game at Minnesota, they've played decent most of the year with the talent they have and yet even at Minn, we were down 14-0 at half. Big deal. If the oline blocks, we score 14 or more too. And the D gets breaks and the D doesnt eventually fold over the fact that the offense does nothing. Earlier in the year, we expected the D to give up points. Frost offense is suppose to be highly effective and its our achilles heal behind that Oline.

So I want to know why its so bad?

here some things I hear

1 - We are young and inexperienced! - no we are not. jaimes has 2.5 years as a starter, Farniok has 1.5 years as a starter and has a RS before that. Bo Wilson a full year as a starter after half this year and half last, including a RS year and playing time before that. Yes Jurgens and Hixson are inexperienced, but theres few olines across the country that doenst have a few new staters in the lineup every year. That amount of exerience is similar to other olines across the country.

2 - We are untalented - Well Farniok and Jurgens 4*s , BW and Jaimes 3* and then a walk on. Not the most talented group ever, but certianly plenty of talent to be solid.

3 - It takes time in a new system - Well these guys have had coming up on 2 years learning the system. plenty of time to not be horrible.

4 = They are not strong - Thats not what HCSF says about our teams strength under Duvall.

5 - These kids arent playing tough - Do i think Farniok and Jaines and Jurgens etc, etc arent tough or dont care enough? I have a hard time coming to that conclusion.

So what is it?

I have no idea and would like some opinions.

Thanks!
I am not an expert but if I recall call correctly most of Oz's OL didn't become starters until year 3.
 

CrabHusker

Alienating everyone, one post at a time.
5 Year Member
I don't have all the answers as to why the O line, or any group for that matter, aren't playing well or up to our lofty standards.

I don't see a single minute of practice, don't see who does and doesn't get it in meetings or film study, don't see who's killing it in the weight room or who's a leader in the locker room. All I see is a pretty young group of kids, brought together mostly by another staff, who're struggling on game day.

Why? It's a lot of things and none of us know how to fix it.

Play harder? Sure. O line dominance is typically based off of nearly violent execution of blocks. I don't see a group playing wit any confidence and that makes a difference. You know exactly what you're supposed to do and where you're supposed to be and it looks different to watch. Offense or defense, know what you're supposed to be doing and you can execute faster. Maybe we get there by swapping some kids out, maybe not. Regardless, it's not going to be over night and it's not going to be because someone here thinks it should be easily fixed. This takes time. I'd like for it to take less time than it appears it will take, but that really doesn't matter much.

Stay the course. We'll get there.

GBR.
 

alabamahusker

Scout Team
15 Year Member
I’m going to say something that I can’t back up at all.

I think it’s quite simply we don’t have enough Jimmy’s and Joe’s......

If you have studs, even “OK” coaching wouldn’t have us in the position where we are now, last year etc....

I just don’t think we have enough talent; we haven’t had in some time now, and hopefully that gets corrected in the next couple of years.....

GBR
 
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