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QB Richard Torres is N

NorthwoodHusker

Blackshirt
Northwood, we aren't fighting, I just want Steve Young at QB, and I just vomited in my mouth typing that, accurate, strong arm, and had the ability to run for the first down and more. OK if we have to have an NU version, Brook , because he got "us". lol
No,sorry,we arent, we agree,and a Steve Young sighting behind center would be a welcome sight indeed. Or an Elway
 

Husker89-93

Scout Team
10 Year Member
Well Elway was really good, but he had the touch of a colt 45 until he got older and beat up. lol and got a coach and realized it wasn't always on him and they built a running game to help him.
 

Red Said Ted

Red Shirt
I think you will probably have to show your credentials at evaluating QB's before I can take your broad stroke judgments on our QB's as gospel. LM played QB for two games. I think we may be a little short on data sets to be making any conclusions regarding what he can and can't do.

Smothers not looking as fast as you thought he would isn't that helpful of a measuring tool. All of the QB's looked plenty fast to me during the Spring game, FWIW. But my perceptions are also not very meaningful. Perhaps they thought they could make him a better passer and it was his athleticism that they were recruiting.

Haarberg has some upside you say. That's a positive and by definition suggests the ability to evaluate. Concluding that our coaches can't evaluate talent because his HS passing was less than 60% and he was the 2nd best QB in the state is puzzling to me. I don't even know what to make of it. I would hope their evaluation went much deeper than those data points. His performance in the Spring game seemed rather promising to me. Again, my perception is not that meaningful and it was just a Spring game.

The only QB that fans have enough data points to judge at this point is AM. Based on his first year's playing, I don't think you can fault the coaches for their evaluation of his abilities. He was touted as a Heisman candidate after his freshman campaign. Here's a reminder of some of the things he has done here at NU:

Nebraska Records
» Career 300-Yard Total Offense Games (13)
» Career 400-Yard Total Offense Games (5)
» Season Total Offensive Yards Per Game (295.1 in 2018)
» Season Completion Percentage (71.5 in 2020)
» Season 400-Yard Total Offense Games (3 in 2018)
» Season 300-Yard Total Offense Games (7 in 2018)
» Game Completion Percentage [min. 20 att.] (90.0 at Iowa in 2020)
» Freshman Completions (224 in 2018)
» Freshman Completion Percentage (64.6% in 2018)
» Freshman Passing Yards (2,617 in 2018)
» Freshman Total Offensive Yards (3,246)
» Freshman Passing Touchdowns (17)
» Freshman Total Touchdowns (25)

Its hard to argue he lacks talent at QB. I think a better case could be made that they haven't done a great job of developing AM's abilities in year two and three. But even that could be debated given there are other factors that reduced AM's effectiveness. (porous offensive line, small number of receiving threats, loss of Ozigbo, loss of S. Morgan, injuries, and recruiting strategies that resulted in mass attrition with little production.) The decision to put more weight on AM to make him more durable probably made sense at the time. But it turned out to be a negative factor in his performance since then. He seems to have slimmed down over the Winter and that could put him back in good form for the fall season.

Hopefully, the recruiting of Torres indicates a shift to recruiting strong passers who can run rather than strong runners who can pass.
I mad. I’m going to stomp my feet and grind my axe any chance I get.
 

Frosty1980

Go Big Red!
2 Year Member
I said this in another thread but it’s quite possible if things go poorly this season that we never know if they could develop another QB. They might only get Martinez for their whole tenure. I can’t evaluate Smother, or Harberg. Hell even LM has a very small sample size and could grow and improve.
 

Middle-aged_Ball_Coach

Eternal Chairman of the Defense Commission
2 Year Member
it did matter, Mickey Joseph, Mike Grant vs Brook Berringer, Tommie Frazier (not the best example had a rifle without a scope), heck we had plenty of run first QBs that could throw a little and we won, but when push came to shove, we struggled, only Coach Frost was able to overcome it. And being so run heavy that the tight end drag killed people isn't a good example. So, yes in todays world I will stick to what I believe. But back then, in the mid to late 80's, very early 90's, just think of what could have been.

I'll never forget that Miami shutout

Just clarifying, the starter for the '91 season and the '92 Orange Bowl was Keithen McCant, who was an above average passer. Joseph was the starter for most of the '90 season, and Grant was the starter for the beginning of the '92 season until Tommie took over. Mickey and Grant were NOT good passers. Tom Haase was decent, but we only saw him briefly against Georgia Tech in the '91 bowl game.

Also, just to quibble, Frost struggled to pass in slippery conditions, most likely because he has relatively small hands. If you watch the '96 Colorado game, the ball kept slipping out of his hand as he was passing.

Finally, you simply can't judge the passing of an option QB by the same standards as the passing of a team in pass-first and/or pocket passing offense. Option QBs get hit ... a lot. Getting hit makes it harder to pass. Tommie Frazier was recruited by almost every major college program to be a pocket passer, but HE wanted to be an option QB, which was why his final choices were Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Clemson. Miami wanted him to be a pocket passer. He would have been a good one. If he could stand in the pocket and just throw, so much of the struggles of passing as an option QB disappear. Ask anybody who ever played option QB how it hurt their passing, and they'll probably tell you war stories for as long as you'll listen. It especially hurts QBs who aren't good at using their elusiveness to avoid direct contact. Jamelle Holieway and Turner Gill were excellent at avoiding hard hits when running the option. Although they weren't/aren't option QBs, Taylor Martinez and Adrian Martinez were/are NOT good at avoiding unnecessary contact when running the ball. I don't ever want to see a Nebraska QB landing on his helmet, shoulder pad, or back EVER again. A smart running QB will do some version of Marcus Allen, who could twist and contort his body to avoid ever taking on a direct shot. The best ones not only fall forward, but find a way to twist while falling to go down as slowly as possible.

The same concept works against pocket passers, fwiw. Go back and watch Jojo's strip-sack on Haskins in the 2018 Ohio State game. He landed hard, and he never fully recovered in that game or the next. He had a hitch in his passing from that point all of the way through the 2nd half and through the Maryland game the following week. It hurts to throw with a sore shoulder, and it's natural to adjust your throwing motion to limit the pain,... which screws up your passing.
 

HuSkaBob

Husker Geek
5 Year Member
Just clarifying, the starter for the '91 season and the '92 Orange Bowl was Keithen McCant, who was an above average passer. Joseph was the starter for most of the '90 season, and Grant was the starter for the beginning of the '92 season until Tommie took over. Mickey and Grant were NOT good passers. Tom Haase was decent, but we only saw him briefly against Georgia Tech in the '91 bowl game.

Also, just to quibble, Frost struggled to pass in slippery conditions, most likely because he has relatively small hands. If you watch the '96 Colorado game, the ball kept slipping out of his hand as he was passing.

Finally, you simply can't judge the passing of an option QB by the same standards as the passing of a team in pass-first and/or pocket passing offense. Option QBs get hit ... a lot. Getting hit makes it harder to pass. Tommie Frazier was recruited by almost every major college program to be a pocket passer, but HE wanted to be an option QB, which was why his final choices were Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Clemson. Miami wanted him to be a pocket passer. He would have been a good one. If he could stand in the pocket and just throw, so much of the struggles of passing as an option QB disappear. Ask anybody who ever played option QB how it hurt their passing, and they'll probably tell you war stories for as long as you'll listen. It especially hurts QBs who aren't good at using their elusiveness to avoid direct contact. Jamelle Holieway and Turner Gill were excellent at avoiding hard hits when running the option. Although they weren't/aren't option QBs, Taylor Martinez and Adrian Martinez were/are NOT good at avoiding unnecessary contact when running the ball. I don't ever want to see a Nebraska QB landing on his helmet, shoulder pad, or back EVER again. A smart running QB will do some version of Marcus Allen, who could twist and contort his body to avoid ever taking on a direct shot. The best ones not only fall forward, but find a way to twist while falling to go down as slowly as possible.

The same concept works against pocket passers, fwiw. Go back and watch Jojo's strip-sack on Haskins in the 2018 Ohio State game. He landed hard, and he never fully recovered in that game or the next. He had a hitch in his passing from that point all of the way through the 2nd half and through the Maryland game the following week. It hurts to throw with a sore shoulder, and it's natural to adjust your throwing motion to limit the pain,... which screws up your passing.
I used to know some of the guys who were walk-on receivers when Mickey Joseph was the QB... he threw a mean knuckleball. They looked like they had arthritis in their fingers from so many dislocations right after college.

Also Keithen McCant is one of my all-time favorite QB's, just a solidly nice guy with good talent. I really wanted him to succeed (much like Gdowski).
 

NorthwoodHusker

Blackshirt
Just clarifying, the starter for the '91 season and the '92 Orange Bowl was Keithen McCant, who was an above average passer. Joseph was the starter for most of the '90 season, and Grant was the starter for the beginning of the '92 season until Tommie took over. Mickey and Grant were NOT good passers. Tom Haase was decent, but we only saw him briefly against Georgia Tech in the '91 bowl game.

Also, just to quibble, Frost struggled to pass in slippery conditions, most likely because he has relatively small hands. If you watch the '96 Colorado game, the ball kept slipping out of his hand as he was passing.

Finally, you simply can't judge the passing of an option QB by the same standards as the passing of a team in pass-first and/or pocket passing offense. Option QBs get hit ... a lot. Getting hit makes it harder to pass. Tommie Frazier was recruited by almost every major college program to be a pocket passer, but HE wanted to be an option QB, which was why his final choices were Nebraska, Notre Dame, and Clemson. Miami wanted him to be a pocket passer. He would have been a good one. If he could stand in the pocket and just throw, so much of the struggles of passing as an option QB disappear. Ask anybody who ever played option QB how it hurt their passing, and they'll probably tell you war stories for as long as you'll listen. It especially hurts QBs who aren't good at using their elusiveness to avoid direct contact. Jamelle Holieway and Turner Gill were excellent at avoiding hard hits when running the option. Although they weren't/aren't option QBs, Taylor Martinez and Adrian Martinez were/are NOT good at avoiding unnecessary contact when running the ball. I don't ever want to see a Nebraska QB landing on his helmet, shoulder pad, or back EVER again. A smart running QB will do some version of Marcus Allen, who could twist and contort his body to avoid ever taking on a direct shot. The best ones not only fall forward, but find a way to twist while falling to go down as slowly as possible.

The same concept works against pocket passers, fwiw. Go back and watch Jojo's strip-sack on Haskins in the 2018 Ohio State game. He landed hard, and he never fully recovered in that game or the next. He had a hitch in his passing from that point all of the way through the 2nd half and through the Maryland game the following week. It hurts to throw with a sore shoulder, and it's natural to adjust your throwing motion to limit the pain,... which screws up your passing.
One word, one man for avoiding hits
Sweetness
 

SavageHusker

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
I think you will probably have to show your credentials at evaluating QB's before I can take your broad stroke judgments on our QB's as gospel. LM played QB for two games. I think we may be a little short on data sets to be making any conclusions regarding what he can and can't do.

Smothers not looking as fast as you thought he would isn't that helpful of a measuring tool. All of the QB's looked plenty fast to me during the Spring game, FWIW. But my perceptions are also not very meaningful. Perhaps they thought they could make him a better passer and it was his athleticism that they were recruiting.

Haarberg has some upside you say. That's a positive and by definition suggests the ability to evaluate. Concluding that our coaches can't evaluate talent because his HS passing was less than 60% and he was the 2nd best QB in the state is puzzling to me. I don't even know what to make of it. I would hope their evaluation went much deeper than those data points. His performance in the Spring game seemed rather promising to me. Again, my perception is not that meaningful and it was just a Spring game.

The only QB that fans have enough data points to judge at this point is AM. Based on his first year's playing, I don't think you can fault the coaches for their evaluation of his abilities. He was touted as a Heisman candidate after his freshman campaign. Here's a reminder of some of the things he has done here at NU:

Nebraska Records
» Career 300-Yard Total Offense Games (13)
» Career 400-Yard Total Offense Games (5)
» Season Total Offensive Yards Per Game (295.1 in 2018)
» Season Completion Percentage (71.5 in 2020)
» Season 400-Yard Total Offense Games (3 in 2018)
» Season 300-Yard Total Offense Games (7 in 2018)
» Game Completion Percentage [min. 20 att.] (90.0 at Iowa in 2020)
» Freshman Completions (224 in 2018)
» Freshman Completion Percentage (64.6% in 2018)
» Freshman Passing Yards (2,617 in 2018)
» Freshman Total Offensive Yards (3,246)
» Freshman Passing Touchdowns (17)
» Freshman Total Touchdowns (25)

Its hard to argue he lacks talent at QB. I think a better case could be made that they haven't done a great job of developing AM's abilities in year two and three. But even that could be debated given there are other factors that reduced AM's effectiveness. (porous offensive line, small number of receiving threats, loss of Ozigbo, loss of S. Morgan, injuries, and recruiting strategies that resulted in mass attrition with little production.) The decision to put more weight on AM to make him more durable probably made sense at the time. But it turned out to be a negative factor in his performance since then. He seems to have slimmed down over the Winter and that could put him back in good form for the fall season.

Hopefully, the recruiting of Torres indicates a shift to recruiting strong passers who can run rather than strong runners who can pass.
H
I think you will probably have to show your credentials at evaluating QB's before I can take your broad stroke judgments on our QB's as gospel. LM played QB for two games. I think we may be a little short on data sets to be making any conclusions regarding what he can and can't do.

Smothers not looking as fast as you thought he would isn't that helpful of a measuring tool. All of the QB's looked plenty fast to me during the Spring game, FWIW. But my perceptions are also not very meaningful. Perhaps they thought they could make him a better passer and it was his athleticism that they were recruiting.

Haarberg has some upside you say. That's a positive and by definition suggests the ability to evaluate. Concluding that our coaches can't evaluate talent because his HS passing was less than 60% and he was the 2nd best QB in the state is puzzling to me. I don't even know what to make of it. I would hope their evaluation went much deeper than those data points. His performance in the Spring game seemed rather promising to me. Again, my perception is not that meaningful and it was just a Spring game.

The only QB that fans have enough data points to judge at this point is AM. Based on his first year's playing, I don't think you can fault the coaches for their evaluation of his abilities. He was touted as a Heisman candidate after his freshman campaign. Here's a reminder of some of the things he has done here at NU:

Nebraska Records
» Career 300-Yard Total Offense Games (13)
» Career 400-Yard Total Offense Games (5)
» Season Total Offensive Yards Per Game (295.1 in 2018)
» Season Completion Percentage (71.5 in 2020)
» Season 400-Yard Total Offense Games (3 in 2018)
» Season 300-Yard Total Offense Games (7 in 2018)
» Game Completion Percentage [min. 20 att.] (90.0 at Iowa in 2020)
» Freshman Completions (224 in 2018)
» Freshman Completion Percentage (64.6% in 2018)
» Freshman Passing Yards (2,617 in 2018)
» Freshman Total Offensive Yards (3,246)
» Freshman Passing Touchdowns (17)
» Freshman Total Touchdowns (25)

Its hard to argue he lacks talent at QB. I think a better case could be made that they haven't done a great job of developing AM's abilities in year two and three. But even that could be debated given there are other factors that reduced AM's effectiveness. (porous offensive line, small number of receiving threats, loss of Ozigbo, loss of S. Morgan, injuries, and recruiting strategies that resulted in mass attrition with little production.) The decision to put more weight on AM to make him more durable probably made sense at the time. But it turned out to be a negative factor in his performance since then. He seems to have slimmed down over the Winter and that could put him back in good form for the fall season.

Hopefully, the recruiting of Torres indicates a shift to recruiting strong passers who can run rather than strong runners who can pass.
Statistics you didn’t include:
Touchdown to pass ratio
Fumbles lost
Completed passes in excess of 20 yards.

While AM looked promising year 1, even then he had lots of turnovers.

Haarberg has a gun, but his completion percentage in the Spring Game was not good (less than 50% IIRC). I bet a dollar to donuts Cole Payton will have both a better college and pro career than Haarberg. But he has a gun so there is some hope he will look batter than a sub 60% Class C QB.
 

NorthwoodHusker

Blackshirt
H
Statistics you didn’t include:
Touchdown to pass ratio
Fumbles lost
Completed passes in excess of 20 yards.

While AM looked promising year 1, even then he had lots of turnovers.

Haarberg has a gun, but his completion percentage in the Spring Game was not good (less than 50% IIRC). I bet a dollar to donuts Cole Payton will have both a better college and pro career than Haarberg. But he has a gun so there is some hope he will look batter than a sub 60% Class C QB.
Haarberg,9-23 1 TD 1 Int
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
H
Statistics you didn’t include:
Touchdown to pass ratio
Fumbles lost
Completed passes in excess of 20 yards.

While AM looked promising year 1, even then he had lots of turnovers.

Haarberg has a gun, but his completion percentage in the Spring Game was not good (less than 50% IIRC). I bet a dollar to donuts Cole Payton will have both a better college and pro career than Haarberg. But he has a gun so there is some hope he will look batter than a sub 60% Class C QB.

The point was, when AM walked into the program, he had a stellar first year as a QB. That suggests the evaluation of his abilities was pretty accurate. As a freshman, he had a better offense overall than he did in year 2 and 3. But if you want to bag on the coaches about something it wouldn’t be their evaluation of AM. It would be their development after he got here. But even then, reality is more complicated than that. The other 10 people lining up in the huddle are part of the equation as well.

I don’t believe anyone outside the program has seen enough data on Haarberg to make an evaluation. And if you are going to use Spring game completion percentage as your measuring stick, you should probably take into account the 30-40 mile an hour winds that day.

I am as prone as anyone to making rash and sometimes harsh judgments based on emotion. But sometimes it’s helpful to take a step back and take a more reasoned approach.
 
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Turd Ferguson

Formerly known as Let it be by the Code
2 Year Member
The point was, when AM walked into the program, he had a stellar first year as a QB. That suggests the evaluation of his abilities was pretty accurate. As a freshman, he had a better offense overall than he did in year 2 and 3. But if you want to bag an the coaches about something it wouldn’t be their evaluation of AM. It would be their development after he got here. But even then, reality is more complicated than that. The other 10 people lining up in the huddle are part of the equation as well.

I don’t believe anyone outside the program has seen enough data on Haarberg to make an evaluation. And if you are going to use Spring game completion percentage as your measuring stick, you should probably take into account the 30-40 mile an hour winds that day.

I am as prone as anyone to making rash and sometimes harsh judgments based on emotion. But sometimes it’s helpful to take a step back and take a more reasoned approach.
1624113463682.png
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
I don't think evaluation is the issue. The issue is development after arriving on campus. Injuries haven't helped issue either.
If I had to take an uneducated wild guess, all that QB guru stuff we are putting them through may be counter-productive and may be getting in the way of natural talent.

This year will help tell the story. If your 4 year starter hasn’t learned what youre trying to teach by now, either you have suspect teachers or a suspect pupil. (Assuming an adequate o-line, an adequate RB, and some adequate players to throw to and you remain injury free - all open questions at this point.)
 
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