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Misplaced Optimism

HuskerWeatherman

Husker Fan
15 Year Member
Miles is a poor basketball coach at this level. Period. End of story. The best that can be said of his tenure here is that he has landed a few talented transfers (nothing wrong with that...everyone has to play that market now) and that a couple of those transfers have gone batcrap crazy for a couple stretches. I'm talking about the 10 game run that got them in the dance in year 2 and...well, last year's Big 10 season was more than a "run"...but was it?

13-5 was a mirage. Yes, NU played well but the Big 10 was down and the schedule was favorable. As was mentioned previously the whole world outside of Nebraska took it for what it was...fortunate crumbling of the Big 10 scheduling cookie.

He is Doc Sadler with a twitter presence. He should have been let go two years ago after finishes of 12th, 11th and 12th. His saving grace was that Eichorst had no political capital to be firing anyone at the time.

Despite going 13-5 last year the guy in 49-70 in the Big 10. That is absolutely freaking awful.

Point being...he sucks as a coach and therefore nobody should have been all that surprised that this team fell flat on it's face.
Preach on -- because you're right on.

I know most don't agree with me when I say Miles is the worst NU basketball coach in history. But I truly believe that. He's actually fortunate to be coaching in an era where players transfer like crazy. That is the only thing that prevented him from having a losing season all seven years he was here (it'll likely be five after this season, regardless). And I doubt he would have attracted the transfers he did if he didn't have a shiny new arena as a selling point. No one has done less with more than Tim Miles. He is a total fraud.
 
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bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
Preach on -- because you're right on.

I know most don't agree with me when I saw Miles is the worst NU basketball coach in history. But I truly believe that. He's actually fortunate to be coaching in an era where players transfer like crazy. That is the only thing that prevented him from having a losing season all seven years he was here (it'll likely be five after this season, regardless). And I doubt he would have attracted the transfers he did if he didn't have a shiny new arena as a selling point. No one has done less with more than Tim Miles. He is a total fraud.
It's pretty close. Sadler and Collier were dreadful too. As far as conference records go they are all about the same. But Miles has had some better players so you're probably right as far as the coaching aspect goes.
 

Jack Riggins

Stay Calm, and Carry On Husker Nation
You make many of the points I have rattling around my head and we are in complete agreement as to what the next step is for Nebraska basketball.

I don't think this is the case at all, but if Miles is going to hang his failure on the Athletic Department not allowing him to use outside consultants, I'll call BS on that. Could it help? Sure. If it's the right outside help. Every situation is different and needs to be handled differently and where I'm at with the current situation surrounding mens basketball is that it's time to start over. Again. I don't know anything about our newest board member and his qualifications or the quality of his outside help, but his posts seem to intimate that not using his services is at least a contributing factor in the demise of the 2018 season and the pending firing. Dunno, but I have a hard time thinking Moos would pull the plug on something he thinks is beneficial to Nebraska athletics.
Miles hasn't hung his failure on the AD, don't twist my postings (THIS IS THE DUMBEST SENTENCE THUS FAR IN MY SHORT POSTING CAREER, BUT I OWN IT and apologized to CrabHusker as he DID NOT insinuate that)

. I have said that Miles asked for outside help for his program 2 years ago. Didn't get it. He asked again under Moos and did get it for about 3 months and then it was pulled based on a "No Outside Consultant Policy" as the reason. I raised it ONLY to say that it is counter to what AD is doing for others and that is strange. It is counter to what other programs do, and what Nebraska has done and is doing. You can call BS but it wasn't TIM saying any of this it was me. I am stating FACTUALLY that Tim wasn't given what he thought was best for the program at this time. I am not saying he should keep his job. GIVE TEAMS WHAT THEY NEED TO BE THE BEST THEY CAN BE!

I am not intimating that my work is a contributing factor to this season, the coaches have to coach and the players have to play. I am simply bringing to light a dynamic between the AD and in this case MBB because it is the latest example. If you would like, I can give you many more over the last few years. Do you not believe or want the AD and University in general to give our student/athletes and coaches all the support they feel they need to be there best?

Do you want SF to have a GA be his strength coach? Do you want a GA to replace Dave Ellis? Do you want the kids that struggle with confidence, relationships, Leadership and Follower-ship to not have experts help them on and off the court/field?

Dunno, but I have a hard time thinking Moos would pull the plug on something he thinks is beneficial to Nebraska athletics

WELL, he did and that is what I have posted. I met with him personally about it, in his office and I have told you what he said. I think my track record around NU, CU, other Teams and business's show clearly your mis-guided thought on this sentence. I am trying trying to put facts out there, not justify anyones job.

Here is my quick BIO, and company if you would like some help in Leadership and Cultural Dynamics:

http://www.performancemountain.com/home.html



 

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Jack Riggins

Stay Calm, and Carry On Husker Nation
An interesting take on the situation. Not one that I believe to be the case, but since I’m not privy to Bill Moos’ thought process, I guess it’s a possibility.

Your scenario seems to put some of the behavior in a rather sinister light. Are there people who don’t like Miles? Absolutely, there were people who wished TO would fall on his face every season he coached. That’s just part of life. Will those people exaggerate any shortcomings to make a coach look as poor as possible? Sure, but that’s why we hire ADs, and we try to hire those who can evaluate the entire job performance. ADs generally don’t do things in a knee jerk fashion.

If some donors don’t like a coach, that’s life. If some fans don’t like a coach, that’s also life. But if a sizable number of donors and fans become disgruntled, that’s when the ADs pay attention. We weren’t to that point last season, and with a new football coach and newer AD, Moos didn’t have enough of an evaluation period to make that type of decision regarding Miles, especially coming off a statistically successful year.

The notion that we have somehow held back resources, I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Higgins. There will always be things a person can point to in their job that, if they had that, it would make their life better. I’m all for using resources to build onto a foundation, but the problem I see, and perhaps Moos sees, is we lack a firm foundation and program structure. Miles seems to be attracted to the next new shiny object.

I don’t mean to demean what Jack does, but Miles needs to address the structural failures or deficiencies in his program first, and then use the services of someone with Mr. Higgins abilities to move to the next level, something we saw Coach Osborne and Coach Cook do, once they created a strong program and structure...Miles is still trying to get guys to understand proper spacing.

As for losing players if we have a change, that’s a possibility, but then again, depending on who we’d hire, we could actually keep a guy or two who otherwise might have left if Miles is retained. The positive in basketball is a couple of players can be a big difference in the success of a team. We get the right coach, snag a transfer or two as a bandaid, then hit the trail and start recruiting the players you want, and we barely skip a beat.
Thanks for moving discussion to the BOARD. I don't know anything about sinister intentions, but there is politics in every sector and people who want you to fail. I am first one to say barring a MIRACLE we will have a new coach. I will support him in anyway I can, even if that means just cheering at games.

You and I agree that hardly anyone gets ALL the RESOURCES to do the job, but I think this outlines since it isn't the first time nor the only sport since SE arrival this has been done and to me that is a systematic failure of the AD and it hurts the product we see. I still hold hope that Moos will re-examine and make adjustments going forward, as not all the best support for athletics is in-house and if NU wants to get where it wants to go, it could take a page from other programs that use this "outside consultant/volunteer" dynamic. I would argue the firm foundation and program structure starts with the AD and if it is shaky or has less than quality people in it you need to get that fixed first. The AD is much bigger than the Head Man.

I think MILES writing is on the wall. Again, I am using the situation to HIGHLIGHT a dynamic I don't believe is healthy in the AD that I have intimate knowledge on. And is also not fairly common knowledge to the outside fan base, who I know would be interested. That is all.
 

CrabHusker

Unredacted
5 Year Member
Miles hasn't hung his failure on the AD, don't twist my postings. I have said that Miles asked for outside help for his program 2 years ago. Didn't get it. He asked again under Moos and did get it for about 3 months and then it was pulled based on a "No Outside Consultant Policy" as the reason. I raised it ONLY to say that it is counter to what AD is doing for others and that is strange. It is counter to what other programs do, and what Nebraska has done and is doing. You can call BS but it wasn't TIM saying any of this it was me. I am stating FACTUALLY that Tim wasn't given what he thought was best for the program at this time. I am not saying he should keep his job. GIVE TEAMS WHAT THEY NEED TO BE THE BEST THEY CAN BE!

I am not intimating that my work is a contributing factor to this season, the coaches have to coach and the players have to play. I am simply bringing to light a dynamic between the AD and in this case MBB because it is the latest example. If you would like, I can give you many more over the last few years. So again, don't twist it. Do you not believe or want the AD and University in general to give our student/athletes and coaches all the support they feel they need to be there best?

Do you want SF to have a GA be his strength coach? Do you want a GA to replace Dave Ellis? Do you want the kids that struggle with confidence, relationships, Leadership and Follower-ship to not have experts help them on and off the court/field?

Dunno, but I have a hard time thinking Moos would pull the plug on something he thinks is beneficial to Nebraska athletics

WELL, he did and that is what I have posted. I met with him personally about it, in his office and I have told you what he said. I think my track record around NU, CU, other Teams and business's show clearly your mis-guided thought on this sentence. I am trying trying to put facts out there, not justify anyones job.

Here is my quick BIO, and company if you would like some help in Leadership and Cultural Dynamics:

http://www.performancemountain.com/home.html
Read the part of my post you're twisting again, Jack.

'I don't think this is the case at all, but if Miles is going to hang his failure on the Athletic Department not allowing him to use outside consultants, I'll call BS on that.'

I didn't say he has and in fact say I don't think he will hang his failures on the lack of third party involvement. I'm not trying to attack your history as a volunteer, but your posts read more like infomercials selling your services than opinion as to what's wrong with the basketball program and the AD. Miles poor performance stands on its own, IMO and has nothing to do with volunteer involvement.

I think the best thing an AD, an athletic department and a University can do is hire and retain the best coaches they can and support them within the framework of their policies. That's ultimately their job to determine the right coaches to hire and create and maintain their own policies, not mine and apparently not yours.

So because Moos doesn't want you to be a part of the basketball program he clearly doesn't want what's best for Nebraska basketball? I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

Again, most of the facts you're 'putting out there' have more to do with your exclusion from the program than they do Miles' failure as a coach. You may be great at your job, but he's not and that's been proven out over the last seven years.

I'm good on the 'Leadership and Cultural Dynamics' front, but thanks for the offer.
 

Jack Riggins

Stay Calm, and Carry On Husker Nation
Read the part of my post you're twisting again, Jack.

'I don't think this is the case at all, but if Miles is going to hang his failure on the Athletic Department not allowing him to use outside consultants, I'll call BS on that.'

I didn't say he has and in fact say I don't think he will hang his failures on the lack of third party involvement. I'm not trying to attack your history as a volunteer, but your posts read more like infomercials selling your services than opinion as to what's wrong with the basketball program and the AD. Miles poor performance stands on its own, IMO and has nothing to do with volunteer involvement.

I think the best thing an AD, an athletic department and a University can do is hire and retain the best coaches they can and support them within the framework of their policies. That's ultimately their job to determine the right coaches to hire and create and maintain their own policies, not mine and apparently not yours.

So because Moos doesn't want you to be a part of the basketball program he clearly doesn't want what's best for Nebraska basketball? I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

Again, most of the facts you're 'putting out there' have more to do with your exclusion from the program than they do Miles' failure as a coach. You may be great at your job, but he's not and that's been proven out over the last seven years.

I'm good on the 'Leadership and Cultural Dynamics' front, but thanks for the offer.
I apologize YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! I did in haste mis-read your first part. How stupid of me, new to message boards and need to brush up on my reading skills. No excuse, just stupid mistake. I make plenty.

Fair enough on the Moos front, and I hope they give coaches present and future all they need.

Fair enough on Miles front, hey they have to win. That is the job.

Accept my Apology, and I will read more carefully.
 

NavyWarrant

Red Shirt
5 Year Member
I apologize YOU ARE CORRECT SIR! I did in haste mis-read your first part. How stupid of me, new to message boards and need to brush up on my reading skills. No excuse, just stupid mistake. I make plenty.

Fair enough on the Moos front, and I hope they give coaches present and future all they need.

Fair enough on Miles front, hey they have to win. That is the job.

Accept my Apology, and I will read more carefully.
Too many organizations talk like they are willing to put support programs in place to achieve success. However, most are not patient enough to truly change the culture. In a metrics driven world, immediate success is expected and teams pull the plug before the opportunity to reap the benefits. Athletes are so psychologically fragile, they need more than just an Xs and Os coach!
 

LarstheRed

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
Thanks for moving discussion to the BOARD. I don't know anything about sinister intentions, but there is politics in every sector and people who want you to fail. I am first one to say barring a MIRACLE we will have a new coach. I will support him in anyway I can, even if that means just cheering at games.

You and I agree that hardly anyone gets ALL the RESOURCES to do the job, but I think this outlines since it isn't the first time nor the only sport since SE arrival this has been done and to me that is a systematic failure of the AD and it hurts the product we see. I still hold hope that Moos will re-examine and make adjustments going forward, as not all the best support for athletics is in-house and if NU wants to get where it wants to go, it could take a page from other programs that use this "outside consultant/volunteer" dynamic. I would argue the firm foundation and program structure starts with the AD and if it is shaky or has less than quality people in it you need to get that fixed first. The AD is much bigger than the Head Man.

I think MILES writing is on the wall. Again, I am using the situation to HIGHLIGHT a dynamic I don't believe is healthy in the AD that I have intimate knowledge on. And is also not fairly common knowledge to the outside fan base, who I know would be interested. That is all.
For me there is support for a program, and then there is SUPPORT. As a coach, I'm going to be responsible for doing all I can to get the most out of the resources given me. ADs do have a finite amount of resources, and if you give something to one program, you are likely going to be asked to give it to all. That's the nature of the beast, so it needs to be a consideration. When I look at certain general needs, like S&C, Nutritionists, Academic Support, I put that on the AD (Athletic Department), as that is something that is likely to be shared/utilized by several of the programs. However, as the coach, I need to look at what my specific needs are from a program standpoint, and do all I can to address them with my staff. If I suck at coaching big men, then I better either have an offense that never needs one, or I hire an assistant who is good at coaching them. The same is true if I'm gifted at creating an offense, but lack defensive skills, I hire someone who can help with that. Respecting the fact that your skills are not simply developed reading a couple of self help books, there are coaches who can bring some of the mental help to the table if that's a priority.

When I speak of the foundation and structure, I'm describing the team, the program, direction or path the coach is leading them on. Most players don't know crap about the AD, nor do they choose a school because of the AD. The AD doesn't recruit, he doesn't decide how to substitute, or when to call timeouts. Tim is the guy who came to Nebraska, pulled in some transfers, recruited marginally well, saw what appeared to be a high percentage transfer out, chose an offense predicated on outside shooting and superior ball handling, but has never really delivered on bringing in either...that is 100% Tim Miles, not SE or BM.

I appreciate you bring some insight to some of the inner workings of the program, but you have to admit, there could be a certain bias to how you perceive that. Like most good teacher/trainers, you believe you can help make people better or more efficient at what they are doing, and I'm pretty darn sure you can. The problem is, I believe our Athletic Director has a level of expectation as to the performance of our basketball program. That's not just wins and losses, but academics, community behavior, fan support, on court performance, individual player development, recruiting (local and out of state), etc., and while you may very well be an asset in certain aspects, if Miles is falling short in so many of the other areas, our AD may not see the investment in your skills as being appropriate or meaningful. It's like a car that needs tires, a battery, brakes, and has a bad plug, all things the owner himself can fix, but he keeps saying we need an O2 sensor. No denying an O2 sensor is important, but if he can't get his own house in order, deal with those things he should be managing, why should we invest in more resources, especially outside ones?
 
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LarstheRed

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
Too many organizations talk like they are willing to put support programs in place to achieve success. However, most are not patient enough to truly change the culture. In a metrics driven world, immediate success is expected and teams pull the plug before the opportunity to reap the benefits. Athletes are so psychologically fragile, they need more than just an Xs and Os coach!
What you are talking about are actions that most put into motion to push a group past a certain ceiling, or block. We aren't a team on the verge of greatness, just needing a nudge mentally to get over the top, we are a team that still struggles with some of the most basic fundamentals. 7 years is an awful long time to still be working on building a culture for that.
 

Jack Riggins

Stay Calm, and Carry On Husker Nation
Too many organizations talk like they are willing to put support programs in place to achieve success. However, most are not patient enough to truly change the culture. In a metrics driven world, immediate success is expected and teams pull the plug before the opportunity to reap the benefits. Athletes are so psychologically fragile, they need more than just an Xs and Os coach!
This is so very true, and more true in todays competitive environment. Few coaches, Leaders have the IT factor to change something overnight. There are so many factors that go into the product we eventually see that it is almost crazy to think about the ONES who max out every year. Mind Numbing really. Good post IMO
 
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