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Maybe the OL isn't as bad as some are saying...

RedStormRising

In the victory, the glory.
5 Year Member
I think we need to just understand that what Frost is doing is a complete overhaul in both X's and O's as well as the mental part. This type of offense doesn't get perfected in 1 year and 3 games. It's complicated and many moving parts. I don't think we are seeing the issues we are because of bad coaching or even bad playing necessarily. We are seeing them because the timing and execution of such a system is elusive due to its complexity. I believe we will get it mastered eventually to the point that UCF did, or even better, but it's just gonna take patience. We've seen some flashes of brilliance of what this system will do once it's rolling along like a fine tuned machine. There are issues, but I'm not worried or concerned. It will all get ironed out soon enough. Let's enjoy the ride.
 

MadRat

God, Family, Football
2 Year Member
Or Frost may have to let go of a friend or two if these loyal coaching friends cannot get them to where they want to be.

The DL coach is an outsider who is earning the trust of the head coach with every game. I already saw a remarkable improvement across the board at that position. At what point does loyalty to guys like Ruud and Garrett become liabilities. Frost shouldn't throw himself on his own sword when he could simply hold his guys accountable. It's amazing when you hold people accountable the problems take care of themselves. That #2 OL showed promise with their hustle. Until the #1's stop acting like prima donnas it will not improve when the opponent is a top 10 type. If you want to beat the champ you play against the champ every play - as if they are on the field today - regardless who is actually out there on the field opposing you.
 
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goodnterribles

Regulators! Let's mount up.
5 Year Member
Or Frost may have to let go of a friend or two if these loyal coaching friends cannot get them to where they want to be.

The DL coach is an outsider who is earning the trust of the head coach with every game. I already saw a remarkable improvement across the board at that position. At what point does loyalty to guys like Ruud and Garrett become liabilities. Frost shouldn't throw himself on his own sword when he could simply hold his guys accountable. It's amazing when you hold people accountable the problems take care of themselves. That #2 OL showed promise with their hustle. Until the #1's stop acting like prima donnas it will not improve when the opponent is a top 10 type. If you want to beat the champ you play against the champ every play - as if they are on the field today - regardless who is actually out there on the field opposing you.
I don't even know what to say to this. This staff was 13-0. This horrible, subpar staff.
 

MadRat

God, Family, Football
2 Year Member
Some of Saban's staff turnover was precisely due to mediocrity creeping into his program. Sometimes you need fresh ideas around a program and perspective outside your inner circle. They have a phrase that more or less summarizes internalized discussions that have no ability to take external feedback. It's called an echo chamber. And it is pretty obvious that some fans here like the current mediocrity. The same ones were perfectly willing to give Riley a chance well beyond his mediocre pedigree. Funny enough, they were the first ones that jumped off the Pelini bandwagon that was winning 9-games a season. Funny these finicky fans that love mediocre result after mediocre result. We didn't hire Frost to replace the Pelini 9-win seasons. I'm pretty sure they hired Frost because he was the best available link to the Osborne era.
 

All 'N' 011808

Former Walk-on
2 Year Member
I don't even know what to say to this. This staff was 13-0. This horrible, subpar staff.
The one thing to ask would be: Who is Garrett? Ruud's first name is Barrett...that's as close as I can figure.

After that, just smile and move on. Game four is less than 24 hours away. Let's see if this rebuild continues to move in the right direction before we ask Garrett to move on from a position that he doesn't have.
 
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CrabHusker

Alienating everyone, one post at a time.
5 Year Member
Or Frost may have to let go of a friend or two if these loyal coaching friends cannot get them to where they want to be.

The DL coach is an outsider who is earning the trust of the head coach with every game. I already saw a remarkable improvement across the board at that position. At what point does loyalty to guys like Ruud and Garrett become liabilities. Frost shouldn't throw himself on his own sword when he could simply hold his guys accountable. It's amazing when you hold people accountable the problems take care of themselves. That #2 OL showed promise with their hustle. Until the #1's stop acting like prima donnas it will not improve when the opponent is a top 10 type. If you want to beat the champ you play against the champ every play - as if they are on the field today - regardless who is actually out there on the field opposing you.
The defense has played some pretty good football, with the exception of the quarter plus in Boulder, so your inclusion of Ruud as one of the issues seems odd. No, this team isn't ready to beat Ohio State yet, but one terrible quarter out of twelve quarters of football doesn't look like mediocrity to me. Remove the Riley era and insert Frost and staff immediately after Pelini's departure and I'd be unhappy with the results to date. The fact is mediocrity was seeped into the program when this staff arrived. They're squeezing it out, one drop at a time and it's not going as fast as any of us would like, but I do see progress. A lot of the things you're talking about are learned behaviors and they don't come overnight.
 

berryhusker

Travel Squad
10 Year Member
Some of Saban's staff turnover was precisely due to mediocrity creeping into his program. Sometimes you need fresh ideas around a program and perspective outside your inner circle. They have a phrase that more or less summarizes internalized discussions that have no ability to take external feedback. It's called an echo chamber. And it is pretty obvious that some fans here like the current mediocrity. The same ones were perfectly willing to give Riley a chance well beyond his mediocre pedigree. Funny enough, they were the first ones that jumped off the Pelini bandwagon that was winning 9-games a season. Funny these finicky fans that love mediocre result after mediocre result. We didn't hire Frost to replace the Pelini 9-win seasons. I'm pretty sure they hired Frost because he was the best available link to the Osborne era.
Are you referring to turnover in Saban's staff during the past 10 years? Who left due to 'mediocrity creeping in'? For the vast majority of his staff who left, it was for an advanced position at another school. Heck, he had 8 leave to be head coaches of major programs or pro teams. If Alabama's performance during that time is considered mediocre, I'll take that all day!

I don't even know how to respond to the second bolded section, except maybe with this:

 
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NUinID

Scout Team
2 Year Member
Or Frost may have to let go of a friend or two if these loyal coaching friends cannot get them to where they want to be.

The DL coach is an outsider who is earning the trust of the head coach with every game. I already saw a remarkable improvement across the board at that position. At what point does loyalty to guys like Ruud and Garrett become liabilities. Frost shouldn't throw himself on his own sword when he could simply hold his guys accountable. It's amazing when you hold people accountable the problems take care of themselves. That #2 OL showed promise with their hustle. Until the #1's stop acting like prima donnas it will not improve when the opponent is a top 10 type. If you want to beat the champ you play against the champ every play - as if they are on the field today - regardless who is actually out there on the field opposing you.
As usual you present your opinion as strictly factual. You would get a lot farther with people if you would just put IMO at the start of your post.

IMO I think you just like to be contrarian to what is being said by others.
 

All 'N' 011808

Former Walk-on
2 Year Member
Or Frost may have to let go of a friend or two if these loyal coaching friends cannot get them to where they want to be.

The DL coach is an outsider who is earning the trust of the head coach with every game. I already saw a remarkable improvement across the board at that position. At what point does loyalty to guys like Ruud and Garrett become liabilities. Frost shouldn't throw himself on his own sword when he could simply hold his guys accountable. It's amazing when you hold people accountable the problems take care of themselves. That #2 OL showed promise with their hustle. Until the #1's stop acting like prima donnas it will not improve when the opponent is a top 10 type. If you want to beat the champ you play against the champ every play - as if they are on the field today - regardless who is actually out there on the field opposing you.
Yay, spell check wins again. The point remains the same.
Spell check? This first post mentions that Ruud and Garrett are liabilities? Who is Garrett supposed to be? Fisher? DeWitt? Chinander? Ruud again, since his first name is Barrett?

The team is a full season and almost four games into an entire program overhaul. At this time, Ruud isn't a liability any more than the 1st team offensive line is a bunch of prima donnas. As for the other coach, we have no idea who you mean.

About the point that still remains...water is wet, but your point doesn't hold water.
 
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MadRat

God, Family, Football
2 Year Member
The players are fully capable of doing more. If you're happy with the trajectory of the team four weeks in then I assume you have no worries about Ohio State. The OL and linebackers, especially the inside linebackers, are not trajecting well at this point. The coaches need to keep their distractions to a minimum and considering the changes elsewhere on this team let alone across college football teams in similar situations, we have some underwhelming performance groups that are sadly going to be the not-so-secret Achilles Heel when we play decent teams. If you want to be a champion then you fix the problems. You fix ALL of the problems, not just live with them. You don't reward subpar performance 'because it's all we got'. Total Texas.

Come on and just try to deny the obvious things like Barry is struggling out there both in coverage and in tackling because he's been allowed to continue his subpar techniques. You have guys out there that are just a step away from making plays, like Miller and Sullivan, which they will likely soon begin to start connecting on. But Barry has been around. He has a tendency to get to the play and then over-zealously fiddles trying to force things on his own, gets drug by ball carriers he is much stronger than, and is generally just slow to finish. He needs to play his keys. Freelancing is not helpful. He needs to actually use tackling technique. His enthusiasm is great, but when a guy is overly enthusiastic and plays subpar it hurts the team. He needs to finish the play and get his guy down. There was a time he used to fly in with his head down and try to lay hits while whiffing altogether. So at least he's not doing that right now.

The OL starters have been acting more like the JV team, but its pretty obvious its not just one or two players because the second team has shown a lot more hustle on the field. If hustle isn't your thing, then I'm sorry for you.
 
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goodnterribles

Regulators! Let's mount up.
5 Year Member
The players are fully capable of doing more. If you're happy with the trajectory of the team four weeks in then I assume you have no worries about Ohio State. The OL and linebackers, especially the inside linebackers, are not trajecting well at this point. The coaches need to keep their distractions to a minimum and considering the changes elsewhere on this team let alone across college football teams in similar situations, we have some underwhelming performance groups that are sadly going to be the not-so-secret Achilles Heel when we play decent teams. If you want to be a champion then you fix the problems. You fix ALL of the problems, not just live with them.

Come one and just try to deny the obvious things like Barry is struggling out there both in coverage and in tackling because he's been allowed to continue his subpar techniques. You have guys out there that are just a step away from making plays, like Miller and Sullivan, which they will likely soon begin to start connecting on. But Barry has been around. He has a tendency to get to the play and then over-zealously fiddles trying to force things on his own, gets drug by ball carriers he is much stronger than, and is generally just slow to finish. He needs to play his keys. Freelancing is not helpful. He needs to actually use tackling technique. His enthusiasm is great, but when a guy is overly enthusiastic and plays subpar it hurts the team. He needs to finish the play and get his guy down. There was a time he used to fly in with his head down and try to lay hits while whiffing altogether. So at least he's not doing that right now.

The OL starters have been acting more like the JV team, but its pretty obvious its not just one or two players because the second team has shown a lot more hustle on the field. If hustle isn't your thing, then I'm sorry for you.
I think you should contact Bill Moos about this immediately.
 
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