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Is honesty not acceptable?

D

Deleted member 3889

Guest
How about we just quit talking about the conference and players and play some ball. There is no upside in talking up/down the players in the media, nor any upside in proclaiming how the conference will have to adjust to you.

What you do on the field is all the talking I need.
He didn't proclaim they would he said hopefully they will. This is the crap that drives me nuts. We have our fan base intentionally misquoting Frost now just to get their kicks in. This is going to be a long ass offseason.
 

CornhuskerinWI

Red Shirt
it’s not quite that simple. Performance across a group isn’t equal for all sorts of reasons - but you’ve got to deliver appropriate opportunity for all. And opportunity looks different for every individual.

Case in point, why did Greg Bell start until he left the team while Ozigbo sat on the bench?
I keep hearing this Bell / Ozigbo narrative around here. You realize they split carries to start the season and that Bell outperformed DO in each game?
 

Bigger Ed

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
I don't know what they talked about before that series, any of the planning, or plays they might incorporate, but you had to think there was some type of discussion. I get it, the arm chairs are all sure we should have been aggressive and tried to chuck it down field, even though we hadn't had success doing so all game. Had we pushed, and gotten picked, all would be screaming we should have backed off and worked for OT. Well, apparently we did think about scoring, but we weren't going to be risky 3 downs, we were testing the water. When we didn't get much, we actually went to something pretty safe that would either surprise and get us enough to get a look on 3rd, or it would burn the clock. I guess I'd be surprised if that wasn't the plan as discussed. Did Frost go all Gundy and bark about how he's a man, bring the criticism toward him? No, but he said, 'I should have called a TO to make sure we were all on the same page'. I just see that as all the 'get out of jail free' card AM needed in that situation.
As I understand it, the plan was to go for a score until we got into the 2 and 20 situation, at which time we shifted from "attack mode" to "run out the clock" mode. Frost was trying to let Martinez off the hook by saying he didn't know that but by saying that Frost inimates that he thought Martinez would figure that out and he didn't. Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but I still think you don't comment on a player in front of the press.
Another example, someone asked Frost why, after we scored on the pick-6, we kicked off to what's-is-name who ran it back for a TD. Frost had no answer; he said he'd have to find out. Well, that immediately relieves him of the responsibility and puts the blame on Dewitt. There's a lot wrong here, IMO. For one, Frost should have taken responsibility. He simpley could have said, I made the wrong call, even if it was Dewitt's to begin with. Second, it shows Frost's attention is diverted elsewhere, probably thinking about the next offensive series, and therefore unable to overrule a deviation from the plan. It's easy to say, "I'm responsible" but subtely divert responsibility elsewhere.
 

Show Me State Red

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
it’s not quite that simple. Performance across a group isn’t equal for all sorts of reasons - but you’ve got to deliver appropriate opportunity for all. And opportunity looks different for every individual.

Case in point, why did Greg Bell start until he left the team while Ozigbo sat on the bench?
The underlined is spot on. The best Husker example that comes to mind is how HCTO handled Frazier and Berringer Bollinger. Brooke had limited opportunity to be the starter of a college football team but a stand up opportunity to play in the NFL. If Coach Osborn doesn't sell the opportunity beyond college to Bollinger then we may have had different results in the 90's.

**Edited out brain fart.
 
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HuskerStu

Recruit
it’s not quite that simple. Performance across a group isn’t equal for all sorts of reasons - but you’ve got to deliver appropriate opportunity for all. And opportunity looks different for every individual.

Case in point, why did Greg Bell start until he left the team while Ozigbo sat on the bench?
That isn't totally accurate. Ozigbo started over Bell the 3rd or 4th game and then Bell decided to transfer because of it.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Frost was faced with a choice to get aggressive and play to win in regulation or get conservative and play for OT. It seems he changed his mind after the penalty and then just hoped his QB could read his mind.
How often did your coaches just give you one option? Mine never did, they always gave at least 2, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't part of the discussion before ever setting foot on the field. I thought Frost explained things, and took the lion's share of the blame for not calling a TO.
 

jmcsundance

Recruit
I read so many comments on here that seem very focused on how Scott made the point we need to get better; talent, strength, culture, it all had to improve, and it was somehow cruel, harsh or counterproductive. He pointed our teams being physically pushed around, and said that had to stop. Oddly, that’s EXACTLY what nearly all we fans and the media have said numerous times over the last 20 years. We’ve even heard people use the dreaded word, talent, in describing our getting rolled by certain schools, and how we lacked it. Why was all of that normal, but a new coach walking in and assessing the obvious, can’t say it?

3 times in my life I’ve been a part of coaching changes, twice in basketball, once in football. What did all 3 times have in common? We were bringing in someone who was perceived to be aggressive and an upgrade. They said things like: we’re going to get stronger (suggesting we weren’t strong), we would be the best conditioned team every game (suggesting we hadn’t been), we were going to be aggressive (suggesting weren’t), we wanted opponent’s to know us as a tough team (meaning we weren’t), and we were adding players to make us better (meaning we weren’t good enough). Oh, and culture, that was also a topic, and a huge focus on playing and thinking as a unit. Sounds familiar?

All 3 situations brought about similar results, both in how the teams transitioned, and in improved performance. All 3 teams improved, so, much of what they said was true, but it came with some pain. Guys at the top, the upperclassmen and starters felt they’d earned their stripes and weren’t big on the idea of doing it all again, not to mention learn skills or techniques they felt they were already good enough with. Some guys had accepted their place as a non factor, and were fine just cruising being a part of the program, but now they were going to be pushed much harder, and they weren’t big on that either. There were those who left immediately or quit early. Some hung on for a year, but never were comfortable with the change. Many who stayed thrived, and they did primarily because they got through the mental hurdles. Not all did as quickly, but you could tell when they’d stopped resisting, and started really making the transition, the ‘buy in’ if you will. The last point is of all the teams, the one that took the longest to truly transition, was the team that felt they weren’t really that bad. Two we knew we were likely getting curb stomped in all but a few games, but the other, well, we were bad, but we'd still win a few and pulled off an occasional upset, so we weren’t really THAT bad...at least in our minds. Delusional.

My gut tells me that’s part of the problem we see now, I don’t think our team thought they were that bad. I know many feel otherwise, but I think Scott told them the truth; they are that bad. But if you listen, he didn’t say they would always be that way, he said we need to get better everyday. To do that, players need to work, coaches need to recruit and the results come together to create something better every year. If athletes don’t understand that, then that should be lesson #1 on day 1 in winter conditioning. There are plenty of great ways to improve and motivate a team, but avoiding the truth shouldn’t be one.
What a great thread, LarstheRed. One of the best without the vitriol - but plenty of different perspectives. Thanks....and along with it the humor was LOL stuff....
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
That isn't totally accurate. Ozigbo started over Bell the 3rd or 4th game and then Bell decided to transfer because of it.
I think the idea was that Bell was a better pass catcher, and had a little more wiggle in the run game. It didn't take long for Frost to realize that Ziggy had solid hands and more shake than they'd realized. Once they did, Bell became option 2.
 

NUinID

Scout Team
2 Year Member
As I understand it, the plan was to go for a score until we got into the 2 and 20 situation, at which time we shifted from "attack mode" to "run out the clock" mode. Frost was trying to let Martinez off the hook by saying he didn't know that but by saying that Frost inimates that he thought Martinez would figure that out and he didn't. Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but I still think you don't comment on a player in front of the press.
Another example, someone asked Frost why, after we scored on the pick-6, we kicked off to what's-is-name who ran it back for a TD. Frost had no answer; he said he'd have to find out. Well, that immediately relieves him of the responsibility and puts the blame on Dewitt. There's a lot wrong here, IMO. For one, Frost should have taken responsibility. He simpley could have said, I made the wrong call, even if it was Dewitt's to begin with. Second, it shows Frost's attention is diverted elsewhere, probably thinking about the next offensive series, and therefore unable to overrule a deviation from the plan. It's easy to say, "I'm responsible" but subtely divert responsibility elsewhere.
I think you read way too much into what is said at PC's. You should do as I do and not listen to them or watch them.
 

Bleed Red

Scout Team
5 Year Member
I just feel the talent argument is never ending, so not sure why Frost wants to bring it up? Alabama is probably the most talented team in CFB, but I guarantee you that Saban and Co. are out trying to recruit better players than what they currently have.

Hell, I would be more alarmed if a college coach didn’t think he had to get more talent.

The fact of the matter is, every coach wants more talent, but at some point it becomes the head coach and assistants job to say “we need to coach up what we’ve got” and I just haven’t seen a ton of that right now outside of a few individuals.
So if some players respond and get better, is it the coaching that is not good enough? Or the players that don't respond?

If a coach can improve a player with his teaching then there really isn't a problem with the teaching, right?
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
it’s not quite that simple. Performance across a group isn’t equal for all sorts of reasons - but you’ve got to deliver appropriate opportunity for all. And opportunity looks different for every individual.

[UPDATE: Insert your own, favorite example of this phenomenon here.]
Can you provide specific examples where SF and staff have not given equal opportunity to members of the team?

(Don’t bother with the QB example unless you have verifiable data that another QB is better than the current starter. There may be another QB who should be starting, but there isn’t anyone outside the program that has the insight or knowledge to make that call. Frankly, had SF pulled AM at halftime and inserted Vedral or McCaffrey and still lost, we would have a bunch of fans complaining that he didn’t stick with his most experienced QB.)
 

Bleed Red

Scout Team
5 Year Member
amen. Yes he can improve on communicating but the fundamental issue that bothers most of us with our eyes open is the utter poor execution, bad play calling,game management, and utter repulsive special teams play (you Have to try to be rated 116 th) that resulted in losing 4 winnable games.

for a staff paid $8.5 million this is unacceptable. No excuses should be made or accepted
What would the monetary value be for when it is acceptable?? Way too many people hung up on what SF and staff make. Face it, that is what was given to them and what was required to get the person 99% of Husker fans wanted. To complain about that now is not real productive. Also, the bad play calling just cracks me up. Really, in the opinion of fans, the definition of a bad play is a play that doesn't work to their expectations. I just don't see too many people saying "wow, that TD pass was really a bad call".
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
Hmm. Would you say Mo Washington “fought to improve like a warrior” and was doing things the “right way” or would you say he just kept getting playing time because of his talent?
That is a great example. Unfortunately. I don’t know the answer. From the outside, I would say he just got playing time due to talent. Others might say Frost was trying to mentor the lad and hope that he could steer him in a more positive direction. I could see an argument in either direction. When have you given a young man enough rope that it is time to cut him loose?

In the end, the treatment, whether it be “benefit of the doubt” or “favoritism” wore thin because I noticed Mo isn’t with the team anymore.
 
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