• You do not need to register if you are not going to pay the yearly fee to post. If you register please click here or log in go to "settings" then "my account" then "User Upgrades" and you can renew.

Is honesty not acceptable?

KleinTxHusker

Blackshirt
15 Year Member
tl/dr but sure...he can talk about talent etc. But nebraska didn't lose to Purdue because they had better players. They didn't lose to iowa because iowa was so much faster or stronger than NU.

Fact is NU lost several games the last couple gears because of coaching/game management. That isn't a talent issue and if you're a player you know that....eventually getting told you lost every week because you suck is going to start rubbing people the wrong way.

Everyone knows they horses aren't there to compete with OSU and Clemson. The rest of the schedule?
I think you have some legitimacy to this point. What has worried me is that we be in a reprise of the Kevin Steele / Baylor situation. I actually think that may have happened here with Riley.

You remember, Steele going for a meaningless TD to get some extra points (they were ahead by less than seven) with just seconds left in the game. The back fumbles, it is returned for a TD, Baylor loses. Steele says he was trying to instill confidence. Coach, that is why they came up with the "Victory Formation" that happened in the NFL when you were in College!

All the "honesty" with players doesn't work very well when you do stupid things that everyone who never coached football knows better. And of course it isn't that easy.

Riley had the BYU and Illinois fiascoes...

Frost has had a few already, perhaps not quite so great but quite frequent...

Reminds me of some of the really bad (but obviously talented) middle school and high school teams I have seen here in Texas.

Run the clock, stay in bounds. If you can't execute real fancy plays, don't try them...

Yes, coaches may dumb choices. It looks like we bailed Ferentz out on one of his Saturday... giving him a second chance... But this is a lot like baseball. Errors, making throws that don't count (which every throw is a potential error), swinging at pitches you shouldn't like a Little League player. We've done more of that than we should have.
 

Greatest Fan of All

The Legend
10 Year Member
There have been a few outrageous criticism's, but not many. Most of the fan complaints have at least some of validity to them. SF has very obviously blown a few games and his play calling at times is baffling yet, after two years, it is somehow unsurprising...that's kind of scary. Clearly, there's still lots to fix, but I think SF will get there. I think his ego has been checked hard by his competition and, hopefully, he's learned from his experience and it will no longer be an issue.

That said, IMO SF has enough strength's to get the job done, with hard work, dedication, recruiting ability and overall smarts being the most important. It will take longer than expected. Because of his loyalty and persistence, he may be a bit slow to make changes...much like one of his mentors (TO) was, but I think he'll get the job done. He may be a coaching slow blinker. I worry about those that feel the need to defend SF's every move. The guy is human and makes plenty of mistakes, but he makes $5 million per year to produce a winning team and coaches of winning teams keep mistakes to a minimum---coaching mistakes as well as player mistakes. They also get criticized by fans when they fail.
 

The_CornTorch

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
To the OP, I think it's generally OK to criticize your team, but you've got to hit the right tone.

What I think is a greater issue, potentially, is Frost continually dividing the team into groups. Or I call it drawing lines in the sand. Which might be related to your theme of honesty.

Kids doing things the right way vs. kids doing things the wrong way
Guys I'll go to battle with vs. guys who I don't want to
Warriors vs. non-warriors

This gets to the issue of "fairness," or as the players might say it – am I going to get a fair shake? I've found that you can be pretty tough on a team, or any group of people, as long as every one of them KNOWS that effort will be rewarded. People can tell pretty quickly if a leader is playing favorites or not. But honestly, I'm just guessing. It's just that the public comments make me suspicious.
 
Last edited:

Bigger Ed

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
This was the quote:

"I understand what he was thinking. It's hard for a player to probably go straight from 'we're going to score and win this game' mode to getting a 15-yard penalty. I haven't seen (the penalty) yet, but that can't happen," Frost said.
The coach turned it back to himself.
"Maybe I could have used a timeout there to make sure the kids understood. The next play we just called a quarterback run. In my mind, it was either get a big chunk back and get us to third down or keep the clock running with them only having one timeout, keeping the ball inbounds."



That sounds pretty close to what you thought he should have said.
Except that he put the onus on Martinez first. To paraphrase, "Martinez goofed but I should've told him not to go out of bounds." The implication is that Martinez made the mistake and Frost's mistake was that he didn't ensure Martinez made a mistake. He didn't take sole ownership.
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
I think we have a pretty strong undercurrent of an anti-Frost contingent growing, just like we had for Solich, Callahan, and Pelini before. They will look for anything and everything to point to how SF will not, or is even incapable of being successful at NU. The "flavors" for consideration right now seem to be:

(1) Upon arriving at NU, SF looked at his roster, thought it needed some work, but ultimately thought he could get them to play at a level higher than they had under three years of Mike Riley. He was so confident in his staff and his roster, that he made what some people have labeled as "bold" statements regarding the future. This caused his players to play less well because, as we know, college football players are a very fragile bunch. The season ended at 4-8.

(2) After watching the team perform through the first season, and underperform in season two, he made comments throughout about talent gaps and even lack of effort by some members of his team. These players, instead of playing harder, decided to "slack off" or maybe even actively sabotage the program in retaliation for their head coach's remarks. They were going to show SF how wrong he was about their abilities by purposefully not playing well.

(3) All of this ultimately culminated in NU beating a bad Maryland team 54-7 and then almost coming back in their final game where Iowa almost completely dominated the first half and it looked like it was going to be a blowout. Then the Nebraska defense came alive and kept NU in the game.

However, just when it looked like NU would potentially win the game, the players remembered SF's comments from season 1 and 2 and suddenly couldn't move the ball or stop Iowa from moving it.

Have I got that right?
 

Captkenny

Junior Varsity
10 Year Member
To the OP, I think it's generally OK to criticize your team, but you've got to hit the right tone.

What I think is a greater issue, potentially, is Frost continually dividing the team into groups. Or I call it drawing lines in the sand. Which might be related to your theme of honesty.

Kids doing things the right way vs. kids doing things the wrong way
Guys I'll go to battle with vs. guys who I don't want to
Warriors vs. non-warriors

This gets to the issue of "fairness," or as the players might say it – am I going to get a fair shake? I've found that you can be pretty tough on a team, or any group of people, as long as every one of them KNOWS that effort will be rewarded. People can tell pretty quickly if a leader will offer a fair shake or not. But honestly, I'm just guessing. It's just that the public comments make me suspicious.
So, players think it would be more "fair" if Frost treated the kids doing things the right way the same as the kids doing things the wrong way?

And those who fight to improve like warriors the same as those who maybe don't show as much interest in practice or games?
 
Last edited:

The_CornTorch

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
So, players think it would be more "fair" if Frost treated the kids doing things the right way the same as the kids doing things the wrong way?

And those who fight to improve like warriors the same as those who maybe don't show as much interest in practice or games?
it’s not quite that simple. Performance across a group isn’t equal for all sorts of reasons - but you’ve got to deliver appropriate opportunity for all. And opportunity looks different for every individual.

[UPDATE: Insert your own, favorite example of this phenomenon here.]
 
Last edited:

The Big Red Lebowski

A:Always, B: Be, C: Cornhusking
10 Year Member
So, players think it would be more "fair" if Frost treated the kids doing things the right way the same as the kids doing things the wrong way?

And those who fight to improve like warriors the same as those who maybe don't show as much interest in practice or games?
Hmm. Would you say Mo Washington “fought to improve like a warrior” and was doing things the “right way” or would you say he just kept getting playing time because of his talent?
 
Last edited:

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Except that he put the onus on Martinez first. To paraphrase, "Martinez goofed but I should've told him not to go out of bounds." The implication is that Martinez made the mistake and Frost's mistake was that he didn't ensure Martinez made a mistake. He didn't take sole ownership.
I don't know what they talked about before that series, any of the planning, or plays they might incorporate, but you had to think there was some type of discussion. I get it, the arm chairs are all sure we should have been aggressive and tried to chuck it down field, even though we hadn't had success doing so all game. Had we pushed, and gotten picked, all would be screaming we should have backed off and worked for OT. Well, apparently we did think about scoring, but we weren't going to be risky 3 downs, we were testing the water. When we didn't get much, we actually went to something pretty safe that would either surprise and get us enough to get a look on 3rd, or it would burn the clock. I guess I'd be surprised if that wasn't the plan as discussed. Did Frost go all Gundy and bark about how he's a man, bring the criticism toward him? No, but he said, 'I should have called a TO to make sure we were all on the same page'. I just see that as all the 'get out of jail free' card AM needed in that situation.
 

Show Me State Red

Red Shirt
2 Year Member
As a coach, you never say “I inherited a mess.” You never say “my system works, we just need better players.” You don’t respond to a poor performance by your QB with “he’s great, we just need to get better around him.”

This is leadership 101 stuff. You are depending on the guys you are essentially calling chopped liver to trust you and respond to your teaching....and ultimately win games for you. Those statements don’t build trust, confidence or a team-first attitude. They sow seeds of doubt and smack of favoritism and excuse making.
Well said. My normal reaction when I hear coaches bag on former coaches and back hand talent is to mentally check them off as jack-a-bites and move on with my day. Since HCSF is our guy I now have to reconcile what you correctly note as leadership 101 stuff with the fact that he is the Husker head coach.

I like to think the disconnect stems directly from commentary he has heard or discussed with his friends and former teammates over the last decade so his point of reference is not as a new coach in a new job working with a new team who happens to have a ravenous fan base. Instead, he has been told multiple times over several years that he is the coach 'Nebraska needs to get the job done'. Why is he needed? He is needed because the former coach suks eggs and recruited a bunch of 'kids' with marginal talent and lazy attitudes, etc... If I filter his comments through this prism then they look more like an immature head coach making off the cuff comments to people who all agree with him.
 

The Big Red Lebowski

A:Always, B: Be, C: Cornhusking
10 Year Member
I don't know what they talked about before that series, any of the planning, or plays they might incorporate, but you had to think there was some type of discussion. I get it, the arm chairs are all sure we should have been aggressive and tried to chuck it down field, even though we hadn't had success doing so all game. Had we pushed, and gotten picked, all would be screaming we should have backed off and worked for OT. Well, apparently we did think about scoring, but we weren't going to be risky 3 downs, we were testing the water. When we didn't get much, we actually went to something pretty safe that would either surprise and get us enough to get a look on 3rd, or it would burn the clock. I guess I'd be surprised if that wasn't the plan as discussed. Did Frost go all Gundy and bark about how he's a man, bring the criticism toward him? No, but he said, 'I should have called a TO to make sure we were all on the same page'. I just see that as all the 'get out of jail free' card AM needed in that situation.
Frost was faced with a choice to get aggressive and play to win in regulation or get conservative and play for OT. It seems he changed his mind after the penalty and then just hoped his QB could read his mind.
 
Top