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Is honesty not acceptable?

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
I read so many comments on here that seem very focused on how Scott made the point we need to get better; talent, strength, culture, it all had to improve, and it was somehow cruel, harsh or counterproductive. He pointed our teams being physically pushed around, and said that had to stop. Oddly, that’s EXACTLY what nearly all we fans and the media have said numerous times over the last 20 years. We’ve even heard people use the dreaded word, talent, in describing our getting rolled by certain schools, and how we lacked it. Why was all of that normal, but a new coach walking in and assessing the obvious, can’t say it?

3 times in my life I’ve been a part of coaching changes, twice in basketball, once in football. What did all 3 times have in common? We were bringing in someone who was perceived to be aggressive and an upgrade. They said things like: we’re going to get stronger (suggesting we weren’t strong), we would be the best conditioned team every game (suggesting we hadn’t been), we were going to be aggressive (suggesting weren’t), we wanted opponent’s to know us as a tough team (meaning we weren’t), and we were adding players to make us better (meaning we weren’t good enough). Oh, and culture, that was also a topic, and a huge focus on playing and thinking as a unit. Sounds familiar?

All 3 situations brought about similar results, both in how the teams transitioned, and in improved performance. All 3 teams improved, so, much of what they said was true, but it came with some pain. Guys at the top, the upperclassmen and starters felt they’d earned their stripes and weren’t big on the idea of doing it all again, not to mention learn skills or techniques they felt they were already good enough with. Some guys had accepted their place as a non factor, and were fine just cruising being a part of the program, but now they were going to be pushed much harder, and they weren’t big on that either. There were those who left immediately or quit early. Some hung on for a year, but never were comfortable with the change. Many who stayed thrived, and they did primarily because they got through the mental hurdles. Not all did as quickly, but you could tell when they’d stopped resisting, and started really making the transition, the ‘buy in’ if you will. The last point is of all the teams, the one that took the longest to truly transition, was the team that felt they weren’t really that bad. Two we knew we were likely getting curb stomped in all but a few games, but the other, well, we were bad, but we'd still win a few and pulled off an occasional upset, so we weren’t really THAT bad...at least in our minds. Delusional.

My gut tells me that’s part of the problem we see now, I don’t think our team thought they were that bad. I know many feel otherwise, but I think Scott told them the truth; they are that bad. But if you listen, he didn’t say they would always be that way, he said we need to get better everyday. To do that, players need to work, coaches need to recruit and the results come together to create something better every year. If athletes don’t understand that, then that should be lesson #1 on day 1 in winter conditioning. There are plenty of great ways to improve and motivate a team, but avoiding the truth shouldn’t be one.
 
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bilsker

Tom Osborne
15 Year Member
tl/dr but sure...he can talk about talent etc. But nebraska didn't lose to Purdue because they had better players. They didn't lose to iowa because iowa was so much faster or stronger than NU.

Fact is NU lost several games the last couple gears because of coaching/game management. That isn't a talent issue and if you're a player you know that....eventually getting told you lost every week because you suck is going to start rubbing people the wrong way.

Everyone knows they horses aren't there to compete with OSU and Clemson. The rest of the schedule?
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
tl/dr but sure...he can talk about talent etc. But nebraska didn't lose to Purdue because they had better players. They didn't lose to iowa because iowa was so much faster or stronger than NU.

Fact is NU lost several games the last couple gears because of coaching/game management. That isn't a talent issue and if you're a player you know that....eventually getting told you lost every week because you suck is going to start rubbing people the wrong way.

Everyone knows they horses aren't there to compete with OSU and Clemson. The rest of the schedule?
Nowhere did I say we lost to Purdue or Indiana just because of talent. But do you prefer our receivers, or Minnesota? Our OLine, or Iowa? Our LBs or Wiscy? We should be playing better than we are, but don’t discount our lack of on field talent. Not on recruiting website talent, on field. Stars don’t mean dick if they don’t develop.

And I get a huge kick out of how often we hear about game management. Do we recall last year when Frost kept his foot on the gas in a tight game and it cost us? Yup, that was all wrong, though it’s been his and Chip’s MO for years. Then, in another close game Frost goes conservative, and that ends up being wrong. So no matter how he tries to manage the game, the result was the same. Is that the management, or the folks you are managing? Is it wrong to expect our line to be able to pick up a couple of yards, or our QB to complete basic passes, or our defense to hold someone on 3rd and long?

I realize we aren’t seeing perfect calls of a game from the sidelines, but I’m far more disturbed seeing P5 players make so many glaring mistakes, game after game, and not seem to care. And please, don’t toss out the ‘play someone else’ card, because after seeing Benhart, Hickman and Johnson, their need for weight room development is obvious. They will be much better next year, but they weren’t ready for a heavy workload.
 
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WestTexasHusker

Varsity
5 Year Member
SF has made a number of off-the-field blunders that have made his job considerably harder.
  • Making numerous bold statements about the rest of the conference that have supplied locker room material for all teams, for the duration of his tenure.
  • Continuing to bag on his players for lack of talent, week after week.
  • Blaming culture, when some decent coaching would have been the difference.
I’ll get blasted for making the comparison, but some of this is eerily similar to the Callahan years.
 
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Nebraska1

Cornhusker since 1969
15 Year Member
Everybody needs to get better including the coaching staff. I'm concerned that Scott doesn't put the last one into the equation. I'm stunned that what he did with UCF hasn't been somewhat duplicated here. I understand the competition is vastly different but he also beat a very strong Auburn team in a bowl game. I was positive we were a solid 8 win team at the worst. I still support him and believe we will get better. I do plan to not listen to any hype this year and wait to see what we put on the field. Lets hope 2020 makes us happy about our football team again.
 

Twelve String

Scout Team
5 Year Member
I read so many comments on here that seem very focused on how Scott made the point we need to get better; talent, strength, culture, it all had to improve. He pointed to our teams being physically pushed around, and said that had to stop. Oddly, that’s EXACTLY what nearly all we fans and the media have said numerous times over the last 20 years. We’ve even heard people use the dreaded word, talent, in describing our getting rolled by certain schools, and how we lacked it. Why was all of that normal, but a new coach walking in and assessing the obvious, can’t say it?

3 times in my life I’ve been a part of coaching changes, twice in basketball, once in football. What did all 3 times have in common? We were bringing in someone who was perceived to be aggressive and an upgrade. They said things like: we’re going to get stronger (suggesting we weren’t strong), we would be the best conditioned team every game (suggesting we hadn’t been), we were going to be aggressive (suggesting weren’t), we wanted opponent’s to know us as a tough team (meaning we weren’t), and we were adding players to make us better (meaning we weren’t good enough). Oh, and culture, that was also a topic, and a huge focus on playing and thinking as a unit. Sounds familiar?

All 3 situations brought about similar results, both in how the teams transitioned, and in improved performance. All 3 teams improved, so, much of what they said was true, but it came with some pain. Guys at the top, the upperclassmen and starters felt they’d earned their stripes and weren’t big on the idea of doing it all again, not to mention learn skills or techniques they felt they were already good enough with. Some guys had accepted their place as a non factor, and were fine just cruising being a part of the program, but now they were going to be pushed much harder, and they weren’t big on that either. There were those who left immediately or quit early. Some hung on for a year, but never were comfortable with the change. Many who stayed thrived, and they did primarily because they got through the mental hurdles. Not all did as quickly, but you could tell when they’d stopped resisting, and started really making the transition, the ‘buy in’ if you will. The last point is of all the teams, the one that took the longest to truly transition, was the team that felt they weren’t really that bad. Two we knew we were likely getting curb stomped in all but a few games, but the other, well, we were bad, but we still win a few and pulled off an occasional upset, so we weren’t THAT bad...at least in our minds. Delusional.

My gut tells me that’s part of the problem we see now, I don’t think our team thought they were that bad. I know many feel otherwise, but I think Scott told them the truth; they are that bad. But if you listen, he didn’t say they would always be that way, he said we need to get better everyday. To do that, players need to work, coaches need to recruit and the results come together to create something better every year. If athletes don’t understand that, then that should be lesson #1 on day 1 in winter conditioning. There are plenty of great ways to improve and motivate a team, but avoiding the truth shouldn’t be one.
Just so I understand this particular point. You think Scott waltzed into the locker and proclaimed "you guys are bad?" Seriously?

Everybody needs to get better every day. My grand-kids need to get better everyday, but I don't preface it with "you guys are bad". No leader worth his salt would ever do something that hair-brained.
 

CrabHusker

Alienating everyone, one post at a time.
5 Year Member
Everybody needs to get better including the coaching staff. I'm concerned that Scott doesn't put the last one into the equation. I'm stunned that what he did with UCF hasn't been somewhat duplicated here. I understand the competition is vastly different but he also beat a very strong Auburn team in a bowl game. I was positive we were a solid 8 win team at the worst. I still support him and believe we will get better. I do plan to not listen to any hype this year and wait to see what we put on the field. Lets hope 2020 makes us happy about our football team again.
I think there is a difference between self evaluation and improvement and the action most think needs to accompany that. I have no doubt he does look at what he’s done and will do, but I also think he’s extremely confident in his scheme and systems and those are largely off limits. That may be an issue, but maybe not. If this team improves even a little, we’re looking at more wins. Improve a lot and the ceiling is even higher.....with this roster and the associated issues.

100% agree on the hype, but I have hope for 2020. We’ll see better football.
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
SF has made a number of off-the-field blunders that have made his job considerably harder.
  • Making numerous bold statements about the rest of the conference that have supplied locker room material for all teams, for the duration of his tenure.
  • Continuing to bag on his players for lack of talent, week after week.
  • Blaming culture, when some decent coaching would have been the difference.
I’ll get blasted for making the comparison, but some of this is eerily similar to the Callahan years.
Bold statements? You mean beyond his comment that he hopes they’ll have to adjust to how we play? You do recall that when Oregon got fast, the PAC didn’t know how to stop them, and eventually had to adapt to how they played them, right? No one in the B1G is doing what Oregon or UCF did, so won’t they need to adapt? Is it sacrilege to suggest that? Sounds more like an excuse to criticize, than a legit concern. And improving talent comes in two forms; you bring in new, or you improve who you have. Saying we have to improve our talent is obvious, and whether they believe it or not, the players will determine how we do that. And this silly notion that’s its a coaching thing is laughable. Our prior coach was good ol’ Smiley Mike, and he never hurt feelings...and create a softness never seen before in Lincoln. That obviously isn't the right approach. And before you call out Frost for saying we need better talent, remember he also said that the Nebraska players were higher caliber athletes than he'd had at UCF. He was very positive in his comments about hard work and buy in. And continued those through most of last year, but adding that it wasn't necessarily all the players. Again this spring he commented positively that we were better at all positions, and said we'd see improvement from last year, but again, those positive comments are being criticized as 'leading us on'.

He's been both too positive (according to some), and too negative (hurting moral according to some), so basically, because we are losing, the guy is doing everything wrong. I'd suggest he's probably never had to deal with a mentally screwed up group like we've got now, and our mentally screwed up fan base that has tantrums with our fairy tale season failing to show up, and he's trying to work through the process. If a few people would stop thinking they need to advise him, and allow him to work on it with the people he trusts, we could just sit back and see if it works.
 

Hooked on Huskers

I'm old as a rock
5 Year Member
SF has made a number of off-the-field blunders that have made his job considerably harder.
  • Making numerous bold statements about the rest of the conference that have supplied locker room material for all teams, for the duration of his tenure.
  • Continuing to bag on his players for lack of talent, week after week.
  • Blaming culture, when some decent coaching would have been the difference.
I’ll get blasted for making the comparison, but some of this is eerily similar to the Callahan years.
Could be true. And added WestTexasHusker list ........
  • Stubborn Scott i.e. Frost/AM wedlock
  • Play maker sucks
Keep in mind, lots of 3 and 4-star players yet NO BOWL BOUND plus piece of cake 2019 schedule. Oh well, NEXT YEAR :Rolleyes:
 

LarstheRed

Travel Squad
5 Year Member
Just so I understand this particular point. You think Scott waltzed into the locker and proclaimed "you guys are bad?" Seriously?

Everybody needs to get better every day. My grand-kids need to get better everyday, but I don't preface it with "you guys are bad". No leader worth his salt would ever do something that hair-brained.
According to some saying we need better talent, we need to get stronger, we need better culture amounts to saying they are bad, so to that extent, that's the message he gave them. Did he say 'you guys are bad'? Of course not, but he told them the truth that they are not at the levels needed to be a good football team, and shockingly, I think some of those guys actually thought they were, which is why they've struggled with the message.
 

CO4NU

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
No where did I say we lost to Purdue or Indiana just because of talent. But do you prefer our receivers, or Minnesota? Our OLine, or Iowa? Our LBs or Wiscy? We should be playing better than we are, but don’t discount our lack of on field talent. Not on recruiting website talent, on field. Stars don’t mean dick if they don’t develop.

And I get a huge kick out of how often we hear about game management. Do we recall last year when Frost kept his foot on the gas in a tight game and it cost us? Yup, that was all wrong, though it’s been his and Chip’s MO for years. Then, in another close game Frost goes conservative, and that ends up being wrong. So no matter how he tries to manage the game, the result was the same. Is that the management, or the folks you are managing? Is it wrong to expect our line to be able to pick up a couple of yards, or our QB to complete basic passes, or our defense to hold someone on 3rd and long?

I realize we aren’t seeing perfect calls of a game from the sidelines, but I’m far more disturbed seeing P5 players make so many glaring mistakes, game after game, and not seem to care. And please, don’t toss out the ‘play someone else’ card, because after seeing Benhart, Hickman and Johnson, their need for weight room development is obvious. They will be much better next year, but they weren’t ready for a heavy workload.
Yep...especially the bold for me.
 

CO4NU

Junior Varsity
5 Year Member
If we have a scholarship players that are seeing other scholarship players with equal or lesser talent thriving and producing at rival universities.....viewing them on T.V.....live....etc. And they still need motivation to work?

Then they absolutely should be called out....imo.

If that is the case... (having to point that out to them)...you possibly/probably have the wrong scholarship player.
 
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BigRedAvenger

Poster of Substance
2 Year Member
Frost can’t throw the players from the previous regimes under the bus and expect them to “buy in”. It creates division. It’s that simple. Besides, they are his players now and he has now had them for 2 years. If they were not good enough to obtain a winning record and reach a bowl game in 2019, that is the fault of the current coaching staff not the previous one.
 

NUinID

Scout Team
2 Year Member
I read so many comments on here that seem very focused on how Scott made the point we need to get better; talent, strength, culture, it all had to improve, and it was somehow cruel, harsh or counterproductive. He pointed to our teams being physically pushed around, and said that had to stop. Oddly, that’s EXACTLY what nearly all we fans and the media have said numerous times over the last 20 years. We’ve even heard people use the dreaded word, talent, in describing our getting rolled by certain schools, and how we lacked it. Why was all of that normal, but a new coach walking in and assessing the obvious, can’t say it?

3 times in my life I’ve been a part of coaching changes, twice in basketball, once in football. What did all 3 times have in common? We were bringing in someone who was perceived to be aggressive and an upgrade. They said things like: we’re going to get stronger (suggesting we weren’t strong), we would be the best conditioned team every game (suggesting we hadn’t been), we were going to be aggressive (suggesting weren’t), we wanted opponent’s to know us as a tough team (meaning we weren’t), and we were adding players to make us better (meaning we weren’t good enough). Oh, and culture, that was also a topic, and a huge focus on playing and thinking as a unit. Sounds familiar?

All 3 situations brought about similar results, both in how the teams transitioned, and in improved performance. All 3 teams improved, so, much of what they said was true, but it came with some pain. Guys at the top, the upperclassmen and starters felt they’d earned their stripes and weren’t big on the idea of doing it all again, not to mention learn skills or techniques they felt they were already good enough with. Some guys had accepted their place as a non factor, and were fine just cruising being a part of the program, but now they were going to be pushed much harder, and they weren’t big on that either. There were those who left immediately or quit early. Some hung on for a year, but never were comfortable with the change. Many who stayed thrived, and they did primarily because they got through the mental hurdles. Not all did as quickly, but you could tell when they’d stopped resisting, and started really making the transition, the ‘buy in’ if you will. The last point is of all the teams, the one that took the longest to truly transition, was the team that felt they weren’t really that bad. Two we knew we were likely getting curb stomped in all but a few games, but the other, well, we were bad, but we still win a few and pulled off an occasional upset, so we weren’t THAT bad...at least in our minds. Delusional.

My gut tells me that’s part of the problem we see now, I don’t think our team thought they were that bad. I know many feel otherwise, but I think Scott told them the truth; they are that bad. But if you listen, he didn’t say they would always be that way, he said we need to get better everyday. To do that, players need to work, coaches need to recruit and the results come together to create something better every year. If athletes don’t understand that, then that should be lesson #1 on day 1 in winter conditioning. There are plenty of great ways to improve and motivate a team, but avoiding the truth shouldn’t be one.
Lars you make some very good points, and valid points. But, in year 3 he has to quit blaming things on Mike Riley. In year 3 this is his team. All the players are his players and it he has to move forward that way. Even if he didn't recruit them they have been with him 3 years in 2020 so they are his players.

He also needs to be able to make tough decisions about staff and personnel when the time comes. I don't think he gets rid of any of his staff this year, but they need to do a lot of self evaluation and maybe change some of the things they are doing.

If someone isn't playing well, you have to be willing to try someone else. He has to be willing to do that.

I know a lot want Chinander's head, but I don't think that is the answer. Maybe he can get his defensive staff to spend a few days with another 3-4 coach that is successful. It does happen. Nebraska studied FSU's 4-3 when they moved to it. Maybe go see Dave Aranda at LSU or Kyle Wittingham at Utah. They both run 3-4 very successfully. Maybe they can glean something from sitting down with other successful coaches.

As I have said before sometimes their is a difference between what you want to do and what you need to to be successful. You saw that in the Iowa game. He wants to be wide open, he wants to throw all the screens, but when they aren't working you have to move to something else. They ran the ball a lot more and a lot more effectively in the second half when they went away from what he wanted to do.

Special teams just have to improve. The special teams directly impacted the outcome of 3 games in a negative way. Giving up a kick off for a touchdown after you score just kills the momentum and nullifies the points you just scored. Against Iowa it was basically the difference in the game.

Scott Frost made a lot of mistakes this year. He needs to learn from them and move on. There is no reason they can't be 7-0 going into the final 5 game gauntlet. At the least they should be 6-1.
 
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