Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Hypothetitcal: If Eichorst Must Fire Bo, What's His #1 Reason?

[HuskerRedDread]

Disagreed. I just don't see it.

Early in his career: NU finished ranked inside the Top10 in at least one of the AP/Coaches (or UPI) poll each of TO's first 16 seasons.

TO also inherited a team coming off of national titles, as well as the advantage of NU's program being light years ahead of the 2nd tier programs facilities and such. He also didn't have the scholarship restrictions that (are suppose to) even out the playing field as far as competition. But my comment about similar problems (at least that's what it was suppose to say, I said "programs"..:lol is that he took what 9 years before winning an outright Big 8 title. We couldn't get by the Sooners. You such complaints like that. That's all I meant by similar issues or problems.

 

[The Big Red Machine]

True. And that's unfair to any coach to have to live to that standard. Especially being that it took two decades for Osborne to get there.

See, that's the thing. I've never seen anyone say that they expect Bo to match TO's success in the 90s. I certainly don't expect that. I just want this program to reach its fullest potential and right now we are far from that, with no hope or signs to indicate that we'll reach any greater heights under the current regime.

 

[OneBigRedN]

Disagreed. I just don't see it.

Early in his career: NU finished ranked inside the Top10 in at least one of the AP/Coaches (or UPI) poll each of TO's first 16 seasons.

This is one reason why it's impossible to compare the two. The era's they coached in were just too completely different.

Not to make light of TO's accomplishments, they stand on their own. But if you look back to those 16 years of top 10's, you see quite a few of the same teams in and out. The first 10 years I think 7-8 teams were in nearly every one like Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame. I think nowadays there aren't as many teams that do it for that long, and there's a much wider variety of teams that take up the extra spots. Proving the playing field is much more even in today's game IMO.

 

[HuskerRedDread]

If you want to compare, you have to look at TO's entire career, not just pick and choose years like some of you are tending to do, such as focusing on his first 5 or first 20. TO's career was the standard of excellence in his later years. Like you said, "everyone isn't saying that he needs to go 60-3". OK, so in other words, they want him to win 9 games a year, interspersed with some conference championships and NC game appearances (win one once per 20 years), and to play competitive sound football without blowout losses or defensive meltdowns. Sounds pretty good to me, and not too much to ask for... and as you said, 83% agree.

Bottom line is, Bo has won zero championships. NONE. His defenses are getting worse instead of better. Until this changes you can't blame people for being upset. Seeing the same mistakes every year with no signs of improvement are telling signs that the limit has been reached. If Bo could win a conference championship and make it to a BCS bowl, perspectives would change, because people would have HOPE. Unfortunately that doesn't look to be happening anytime soon, and when people lose hope it's not a good thing, especially when there are embarrassing losses involved.

You do realize that Bo's coaching career is only 5 years long, right? That would be a reason most are stressing what TO was able to accomplish early in his career as a first time HC, like Bo. I hope you don't think that Bo should have accomplished, in 5 years, all that TO accomplished in 25........let's be real. It took years for TO to figure out how to put a team out their to even get to the biggest stage. Yes, we want a conference championship. Bo was competing for one vs the 2nd best team in the nation in his second year and was an extra .01 from winning it. Since then he's been back to the CCG 2 of the 3 seasons. How many conference championship did TO have his first 5 years. If the B1G didn't have a CCG game like they were before our addition, last years conference champs would have been NU as we were the only team eligible for a championship/bowl with only one conference loss at the end of November.

So, to your bottom line, Pelini has no championships, true. His defense has gotten worse, yes. But he has a better offense, and a different group on on the field than he had before. I said back when he first got his starting spot, and still believe today, as long as Martinez is the head of the team it will be limited to what he is able to accomplish himself. And thus far as served to be true. Martinez has broken almost every record he possibly can, but yet brought no bowl wins or championships to Lincoln. The unit he leads has been compare to one of the most dominant offensive units in our history. The have been able to come back from the largest margin one game in '11 and came back repeatedly the following season. All great to write about, but still crumbled in the game that counts. The athletes that Bo had on defense last year were nothing worth highlighting. Those who paid attention knew this when they sign their LOI back in 08. The athletes he has now have to obviously be developed, but they are as talent of a young class as any we have seen in Lincoln. Remember all the names we raved about in 09/10....well understand those were the same underclassmen we dreaded and complained about in 07. I don't blame people for being upset, I just hate that some fans label other fans when they don't want to join them in the doom and gloom sorry stories regarding the program. I'm not ready to suggest that Pelini has reached his limit as a HC, not after 5 years. Armstrong is a much better QB than Martinez and that will show over the next few years. Martinez was our default because we were in need of a playmaker. Martinez in my opinion would have been All Universe as a WR had Green matured sooner and/or Lee been able to hold his job his senior year.

 

[HuskerRedDread]

See, that's the thing. I've never seen anyone say that they expect Bo to match TO's success in the 90s. I certainly don't expect that. I just want this program to reach its fullest potential and right now we are far from that, with no hope or signs to indicate that we'll reach any greater heights under the current regime.

Even though they don't come out and say, 9 times out of ten, when they refer to the greatness of the program they are normally pointing to what was accomplished in the 90s. All you have to do is look at the examples they give. Nobody is going to come out say Pelini needs to go 60-3 with 3 national titles, that's silly, but the standard that many refer to comes from what they remember during that era.

 

[HuskerRedDread]

This is one reason why it's impossible to compare the two. The era's they coached in were just too completely different.

Not to make light of TO's accomplishments, they stand on their own. But if you look back to those 16 years of top 10's, you see quite a few of the same teams in and out. The first 10 years I think 7-8 teams were in nearly every one like Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, Alabama, USC, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame. I think nowadays there aren't as many teams that do it for that long, and there's a much wider variety of teams that take up the extra spots. Proving the playing field is much more even in today's game IMO.

+1

 

[n is for noledge]

Not that I'm disagreeing with your post here, but what do you expect for a team to do when the HC hires a DC who had no experience as a coordinator and hasn't excel in any position he's ever held as an assistant. Combined with the fact that 70 % of his unit's two deep are playing their first snaps at D-1 level. Great coaches, surround themselves with a great staff, I think that is the biggest flaw that Pelini showcasing currently. We can chant that this is "Pelini's defense" all we want but no HC turns all focus to one side of the ball as he did as a coordinator. There is too much responsibility for the HC to do so, which is why they are the HC.

Up until this season, I've been VERY much supportive of Pelini. Despite his inbred hiring of a DC. We've seen other places where the HC is also a coordinator. Many times over in fact, not just TO. I also will not expect Bo to have the same level of success as TO, because of what he inherited. I'm solidly a "show me something" person but leaning toward change.

We're paying a lot of money for a program headed by a guy who can't keep his composure. Who at times, has had a very adversarial relationship with the media, fans AND administration. Those two things will put him at odds with ANY boss.
1. Inexperienced players are Bo's fault. Play your backups whenever you get the chance. It promotes competition, gets youth experience, and reduces injury burden to your playmakers.
2. Inexperienced Assts are Bo's fault. If you insist on waiting for problems to develop, you place yourself in trouble and undermine the entire program. Corrective action should have been taken in the offseason after 70-31...it has not.
3. S&C: I have a degree from our U in Exercise Phys, I have no idea what Bo wants vs what he's getting. So I can't really address this intelligently as far as who's at fault. But we're not in shape.
4. Accountability: Why does a guy like Randle play when obviously hurt? Why does Evans remain on the field after several bad plays? Why do they trot Taylor out there like there's no injury, or Ameer after fumbles.
5. Scheme: I don't like it. I'm not the coach and I don't make the decisions, he does. But the results are lacking.
6. Lack of Effort. This is something that the HEAD COACH DIRECTLY AFFECTS. No more favorites. No more bad plays without consequences.


There are clearly things that go into running a program that I don't/can't understand because I have my own job and company to run. Recruiting/roster management/S&C are things that play into the above, but I only get to see the display about 14 times per year. The number 1 best thing for the PROGRAM is for Bo to turn this around. Hope to hell he can do it.

 

[HuskerRedDread]

Up until this season, I've been VERY much supportive of Pelini. Despite his inbred hiring of a DC. We've seen other places where the HC is also a coordinator. Many times over in fact, not just TO. I also will not expect Bo to have the same level of success as TO, because of what he inherited. I'm solidly a "show me something" person but leaning toward change.

We're paying a lot of money for a program headed by a guy who can't keep his composure. Who at times, has had a very adversarial relationship with the media, fans AND administration. Those two things will put him at odds with ANY boss.
1. Inexperienced players are Bo's fault. Play your backups whenever you get the chance. It promotes competition, gets youth experience, and reduces injury burden to your playmakers.
2. Inexperienced Assts are Bo's fault. If you insist on waiting for problems to develop, you place yourself in trouble and undermine the entire program. Corrective action should have been taken in the offseason after 70-31...it has not.
3. S&C: I have a degree from our U in Exercise Phys, I have no idea what Bo wants vs what he's getting. So I can't really address this intelligently as far as who's at fault. But we're not in shape.
4. Accountability: Why does a guy like Randle play when obviously hurt? Why does Evans remain on the field after several bad plays? Why do they trot Taylor out there like there's no injury, or Ameer after fumbles.
5. Scheme: I don't like it. I'm not the coach and I don't make the decisions, he does. But the results are lacking.
6. Lack of Effort. This is something that the HEAD COACH DIRECTLY AFFECTS. No more favorites. No more bad plays without consequences.


There are clearly things that go into running a program that I don't/can't understand because I have my own job and company to run. Recruiting/roster management/S&C are things that play into the above, but I only get to see the display about 14 times per year. The number 1 best thing for the PROGRAM is for Bo to turn this around. Hope to hell he can do it.

1. Right On.
2. Totally Agree.
3. I don't think S&C was as much of a hindrance last year as much as lack of talent. It's not the case this year either with us fielding so many "kids" (18/19 year olds)
4. Accountability goes back to that loyalty factor I mentioned earlier. Bo seems to give a player the "ball" and lets him just run with it because of the history. He first showed this with Martinez and it's slowly spreading to his defense now.
5. I hate multiple schemes. Hate the term. Nothing great in life brings you everything you need. Bo wants a Corvette to be great off road and trying to get his Tahoo to jump from 0-60 in 2-3 seconds. Be great at something.
6. This has more to do with the leadership on the team. The players. Effort and playing for the coach only goes so far. Eventually, your brothers have to get in your ass for not pulling your weight like everyone else. When I played, if you brought anything less on the field than I did, I bet not even see you giggling in the locker room let alone at the team outing.

 

[HuskerNCorpus]

UCLA players commenting on how gassed Nebraska players were is not comforting. Boys from LA coming to Nebraska and wearing down the Cornhuskers. Eek!

I've said it plenty of times...I want Dobson gone.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Those boosters with influence were the ones who panicked and forced a change back in 2003. Look where that got us. Had they let Frank retool the coaching staff, which was a pretty good one already we would not have had those two losing seasons and the persistent complaints about The HCs personality would not exist.

The ironic thing about this discussion is that Solich had gone 11-1, 7-7, and 10-3 plus a BCS Bowl for the NC, exactly the scenario the gloom and doomers claim they'd be satisfied with now, and yet those same fans clamored for his firing.

Personally, I'm sincerely hoping those fans don't wield enough influence to force another ill-considered change. There is absolutely no guarantee that any alternative would be an improvement. Unless Eichort has a top notch replacement lined up prior there is little reason to expect this coach to be fired.

OK I have to jump in here even though I really didn’t want too. There is just too much confusion as to why Solich got fired. It didn’t have anything to do with boosters or fans or his coaching record. Those are just excuses, in my opinion he got fired because he couldn’t get along with his boss. In any business if you constantly fight with your boss, sooner or later he/she will get rid of you.

You have to remember that for Frank’s whole coaching career the head football coach was the real power and the AD was just an afterthought. Now in comes an overbearing AD who thinks he is the boss and the head football coach is just another employee. Really people does anyone think that relationship ever had a chance?

 

[The Big Red Machine]

From what I remember, Solich wasn't a very good recruiter, either. I think he was fired too soon, but the writing was on the wall, IMO.

 

[redeye]

the only reason should be that he already has a better coach signed on and ready to start..

 

[n is for noledge]

3. I don't think S&C was as much of a hindrance last year as much as lack of talent. It's not the case this year either with us fielding so many "kids" (18/19 year olds)

This is something that I don't really want to bury 10 pages deep, but conditioning hasn't been a problem for us in the recent past. We've seen our guys ALL gain weight since we've moved to the B1G. Many of our players look a step slower too. The issue I have is this: Who is deciding what we want the players to look like?

1. If it's Bo, then he's got the wrong idea
2. If it's Dobson, then he's got the wrong idea.

Nutrition and S&C is one area where we are sorely lacking these days, and is one area where we really need to crank it up. I think we get better "raw material" than Wisconsin, NW, Michigan State and even PSU. Yet we don't necessarily seem to have the better team physically.

Nebraska CAN be a very special place. But if you don't utilize our resources to the absolute max, we are disappointed in the product.