Locked due to no posts in 60 days. Report 1st post if need unlocked Heisman Finalists Named

[wcbsas]

Luck will be in good company when RGIII's name is announced Saturday night - none of the greatest QBs to ever play the game of football won the Heisman - Montana, Elway, Manning, Namath, (maybe Rodgers if he keeps it up for about five or more years), Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Marino, Steve Young, Favre, Starr, Y.A. Tittle, et al.

Edit: Greatest NFL QBs

Montana and Elway were above average college QBs.

Montana was not even a two-year starter at ND, did win a NC and had notable Cotton Bowl comebacks over #1 Texas in '78 and Houston in '79.

Elway was 20-23 in his years at Stanford, never went to a bowl game. Had more individual recognition (All-American, 2nd in the Hypesman) than Montana but again wasn't or shouldn't be considered an all-time great college QB.

Maybe that is the GREAT thing about college football. QBs like RGIII, Eric Crouch, Tim Tebow, Tommy Frazier are considered great QBs because of their multiple skill sets.

 

[Cardinal]

Elway shouldn't be considered an all-time great college QB.

Maybe that is the GREAT thing about college football. QBs like RGIII, Eric Crouch, Tim Tebow, Tommy Frazier are considered great QBs because of their multiple skill sets.

I don't know how old or young you are (i.e., old enough to have seen Elway play in college), but if you can find one knowledgeable football guy outside of Husker Nation that thinks Crouch was a better college football player than Elway, dinner is on me.

 

[wcbsas]

I don't know how old or young you are (i.e., old enough to have seen Elway play in college), but if you can find one knowledgeable football guy outside of Husker Nation that thinks Crouch was a better college football player than Elway, dinner is on me.

I was going to write that I wasn't suggesting EC was a better college player than Elway but upon reflection I guess I am saying it (to a certain degree from a certain perspective).

EC's TEAM accomplished more over his career than JE's TEAM
EC won the Hiesman Trophy. JE did not.
EC's team won conference championships. JE's did not.
EC played for a national championship. JE did not.
EC played in the Rose Bowl. JE never did.
JE was an All-American but EC brought home more individual hardware than JE ever did.

In the context of the subject we're talking about - Heisman Trophy and COLLEGE Football it is hard to argue that EC didn't have an individually more distinguished career than Elway. Emphasis is on College. Talk to 10 people off the street and ask them the first thing that comes to mind when asked about John Elway and 9 out of 10 will reference his NFL career with the Denver Broncos not his collegiate career at Stanford.

 

[wcbsas]

I don't know how old or young you are (i.e., old enough to have seen Elway play in college), but if you can find one knowledgeable football guy outside of Husker Nation that thinks Crouch was a better college football player than Elway, dinner is on me.

FYI - I am really old - old enough to have seen Elway play in college.

 

[Cardinal]

FYI - I am really old - old enough to have seen Elway play in college.

Me too

 

[HuskerWeatherman]

FYI - I am really old - old enough to have seen Elway play in college.

I saw Elway play for Stanford -- but I'm not really old!

 

[redarmy]

I don't know how old or young you are (i.e., old enough to have seen Elway play in college), but if you can find one knowledgeable football guy outside of Husker Nation that thinks Crouch was a better college football player than Elway, dinner is on me.

I was going to write that I wasn't suggesting EC was a better college player than Elway but upon reflection I guess I am saying it (to a certain degree from a certain perspective).

EC's TEAM accomplished more over his career than JE's TEAM
EC won the Hiesman Trophy. JE did not.
EC's team won conference championships. JE's did not.
EC played for a national championship. JE did not.
EC played in the Rose Bowl. JE never did.
JE was an All-American but EC brought home more individual hardware than JE ever did.

In the context of the subject we're talking about - Heisman Trophy and COLLEGE Football it is hard to argue that EC didn't have an individually more distinguished career than Elway. Emphasis is on College. Talk to 10 people off the street and ask them the first thing that comes to mind when asked about John Elway and 9 out of 10 will reference his NFL career with the Denver Broncos not his collegiate career at Stanford.

it is extremely difficult to put players nfl careers aside and remember their college careers. It is also difficult to not let failed attempted NFL careers overshadow excellent college careers.

Look no further than Tom Brady. I would argue that nobody could have seen Michael Jordan becoming the champion he became based on his play inside of dean smiths limiting offense. Having said that. I am with WCBAS on this, Eric Crouch was a much better college football player than John Elway. At least from a individual awards standpoint.

 

[Cardinal]

I saw Elway play for Stanford -- but I'm not really old!

You are as young as you feel, my friend.

 

[Cardinal]

it is extremely difficult to put players nfl careers aside and remember their college careers. It is also difficult to not let failed attempted NFL careers overshadow excellent college careers.

Look no further than Tom Brady. I would argue that nobody could have seen Michael Jordan becoming the champion he became based on his play inside of dean smiths limiting offense. Having said that. I am with WCBAS on this, Eric Crouch was a much better college football player than John Elway. At least from a individual awards standpoint.

So I presume you are all in agreement that Eddie George was a "much, much, much better" college football player than was Tommie Frazier. George won the Maxwell Award for best player, the Walter Camp Trophy for best player and the Heisman Trophy for best player in 1995. It's about the awards, you know, not about what anyone who played the game at any meaningful level sees when he watches them on the field.

 

[wcbsas]

So I presume you are all in agreement that Eddie George was a "much, much, much better" college football player than was Tommie Frazier. George won the Maxwell Award for best player, the Walter Camp Trophy for best player and the Heisman Trophy for best player in 1995. It's about the awards, you know, not about what anyone who played the game at any meaningful level sees when he watches them on the field.

Apples and Oranges.

Ohio State was 11-2 finished ranked 8th overall.

George had an outstanding career (as did Elway). But he had more success - personal and team.

Its an individual award but team success dictate a lot when it comes to these awards. And rightfully so IMO.

 

[Cardinal]

Apples and Oranges.

Ohio State was 11-2 finished ranked 8th overall.

George had an outstanding career (as did Elway). But he had more success - personal and team.

Its an individual award but team success dictate a lot when it comes to these awards. And rightfully so IMO.

You lost me there, wcb. Not sure what you are trying to say. Are you are saying George's team had more success in '95 than did Frazier's team? Because I was comparing Frazier and George as an example of how individual awards won doesn't mean squat about who is the better player. George won more awards, but anyone who knows football and watched the 1995 season knows that Frazier was the more outstanding college football player at his position that year than was George at his.

 

[Red Wiggler]

I don't know how old or young you are (i.e., old enough to have seen Elway play in college), but if you can find one knowledgeable football guy outside of Husker Nation that thinks Crouch was a better college football player than Elway, dinner is on me.

Elway was certainly a great college quarterback and if memory serves was 2nd in the Heisman behind a pretty good guy named Hershel something. At the time of voting, I believe Georgia was undefeated and Stanford had a losing record, but I doubt that there are too many players that came in 2nd in the Heisman with a team record like Elway's Stanford team had.

As far as Crouch vs. Elway go, Crouch had a decidedly winning record as a starter and Elway I believe was just south of .500 (which for Stanford back then was pretty good???) They were very different quarterbacks from two different eras, both of whom willed their teams to victories. We saw what happened at NU after Crouch left, so there really isn't any debate on his importance to the team. Seems like Stanford also dropped of a cliff after Elway (but the cliff wasn't nearly as high,) but I don't remember the details. But in terms of college success, Crouch certainly had more success than Elway...