Frustrating to see other B1G schools STILL adding recruits

[Cerv15]

The question is why a hard sell from Fleck would work. Is a 4* kid really worried about Minne-friggin-sota not taking him a month or two later, or even the night before signing day for that matter?

Saban or Dabo might be able to get away with that, but Fleck in Minnesota?

Fleck is doing exactly what he has to at Minnesota, push for commitment and hope you can hang on, they don’t have much of a history, but can point to improvement and building, Dickerson wants to be a star,, nothing wrong with that but just don’t see him ending up at Minnesota, too many variables and really think it’s a place holder until he’s able to go south and visit, but fleck is dangerous as he get his players behind him and know how to use his words in recruiting, but just don’t think it’s something that is sub stainable, more like flash in a pan.

 

[Bleed Red]

I'm sure you feel the program is having more issues than normal, but I'm just not seeing it. The one year that looks really shaky was year 1, and we all know that because the staff got a late start, and had to lean on players they knew from prior recruiting efforts, and an area they have greater familiarity with, the overall results were not good. The following year was a step up, though we still lost some guys (Chase comes to mind). The reason appear to vary, but in most instances, These guys are leaving or getting the boot because of poor vetting. Chase had some depression/homesickness issues, and he's signed with I believe Portland State, so he may have realized big time football was more than he was prepared for. Is that a failure on the coaches part? Maybe, or maybe the kid didn't recognize the jump college was going to be. We also lost two of the 'Cams', but I recall one thinking he was going to get more time as a freshman, and left for greener pastures. The other I'm not sure has ended up anywhere. Both looked like excellent players, but apparently patience wasn't a virtue in at least one of the cases. Again, as a coach, I don't know what could be done to teach patience, but in my experience, a player has to see themselves as far better to not understand the guy who has been around a few years has an advantage. Woodyard I have no idea about other than our WR room has looked pretty pathetic the last couple of years, and the guy in charge of it is now gone. Pickering has too many behind the scenes drama to really understand what happened there, but it must have been substantial enough to put us without a kicker, and likely cost us at least 2 games. I have zero understanding of the issue, so I'm hard pressed to lay that on a coach. Bell, same spot as Woodyard, and he seemed long on attitude, and short on delivery. This one might be on Held, as I think he was the guy who had the relationship with the Juco coach. His film and ratings suggested he was a really good RB, but something never clicked.

Putting the defections on the staff for the 2017 misses ignores the fact that several of those guys just didn't fit the system, or weren't of a mindset to change in the manner that was expected. It's funny, in one breath I read guys who complained that Frost should have come in with a 'my way or the highway' attitude, and still others felt he didn't bend enough for the players. All that tells me is everyone has amazingly acute hindsight.


And seriously, if you are going to dredge up all the guys we've missed on that have gone on to have great careers with other teams, why not toss in Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Hatoli Ngata? All really liked us...right up until they didn't. With the exception of the guys who recently flaked, I'm actually pretty pleased with how we've worked the locals over the last few years. Don't get too caught up in the doom and gloom some are spouting. It's as dead a time a year as we've ever experienced, and people are going to analyze the crap out of stuff, which is fine, but we don't have much ability to change the perception with on campus visits, or games to showcase the opportunity. I haven't spent the time to learn about all these locals we don't have committed, but are any of them life long Hawkeye, Badger, Wildcat, Cyclone, Whatever fans? I've never understood the arrogance we as fans can have with our expectations for a kid to turn their backs on their favorite program just because we make an offer. Some do, and that's great, but plenty still want to chase the childhood dream as a Gopher...or whatever.

Keep in mind we are seeing a kid we thought was critical to land, ditch us for ASU, only to return to walk on. People don't realize how varying recruiting styles are. Some are pure used car, some are almost like evangelists. Others can walk into a room, all 5'9" of them, and act like they are Xerxes from 300, and that hooks some kids. I don't know what Scott does, but I'm betting it's pretty low key, but to the point. And don't put too much on losing a player to a school they have deep feelings for, like Watts. I have loved the Huskers my entire life, and I have my dad in the basketball HOF in Lincoln, but I promise you, my all time dream school was Duke, so if I'd been talented enough, I would have said 'see ya' to the Big Red and gone Blue Devil in a heartbeat (Think Bill Jackman). That wouldn't have been Iba's fault, it would have been a kid following a dream. That's what some players are doing, and we need to remember that.

Good points. I'd just add as food for thought, it isn't like Chase or the Cam's didn't have other D1 offers. IF they didn't understand what D1 football was all about, NU wasn't the only school not to discover that during the recruiting process. I'm sure the other schools offering would have happily taken them.

 

[Bleed Red]

The question is why a hard sell from Fleck would work. Is a 4* kid really worried about Minne-friggin-sota not taking him a month or two later, or even the night before signing day for that matter?

Saban or Dabo might be able to get away with that, but Fleck in Minnesota?

Maybe, if the kid is told "we are taking 2 at your position, when we get 2 we are done and we don't pull offers if a guy picks us".

 

[LarstheRed]

The question is why a hard sell from Fleck would work. Is a 4* kid really worried about Minne-friggin-sota not taking him a month or two later, or even the night before signing day for that matter?

Saban or Dabo might be able to get away with that, but Fleck in Minnesota?

Keep in mind he's also a really good salesman. There is a skill to that, and Fleck can sell enthusiasm.

 

[LarstheRed]

Good points. I'd just add as food for thought, it isn't like Chase or the Cam's didn't have other D1 offers. IF they didn't understand what D1 football was all about, NU wasn't the only school not to discover that during the recruiting process. I'm sure the other schools offering would have happily taken them.

One of the Cams went to SMU I believe, and besides being a school in his backyard, his ability to see the field early was likely better. I think those guys all could have been contributors, so losing them does bum me out, but they all had reasons they weren't comfortable at school. It's part of life.

 

[Bleed Red]

One of the Cams went to SMU I believe, and besides being a school in his backyard, his ability to see the field early was likely better. I think those guys all could have been contributors, so losing them does bum me out, but they all had reasons they weren't comfortable at school. It's part of life.

Exactly, and my point was that if NU didn't do enough background and relationship building to determine there might be underlying issues, they were far from the only school. I'm sure none of the schools that offered felt the players would leave in a year or less if they signed with them.

 

[Beareye]

Maybe, if the kid is told "we are taking 2 at your position, when we get 2 we are done and we don't pull offers if a guy picks us".

Makes sense if the kid really has his heart set on that particular program. It's just hard to believe that Minnesota can get away with a "now or never" type of offer to a Top 100 recruit.

 

[Fort Husker]

I'm sure you feel the program is having more issues than normal, but I'm just not seeing it. The one year that looks really shaky was year 1, and we all know that because the staff got a late start, and had to lean on players they knew from prior recruiting efforts, and an area they have greater familiarity with, the overall results were not good. The following year was a step up, though we still lost some guys (Chase comes to mind). The reason appear to vary, but in most instances, These guys are leaving or getting the boot because of poor vetting. Chase had some depression/homesickness issues, and he's signed with I believe Portland State, so he may have realized big time football was more than he was prepared for. Is that a failure on the coaches part? Maybe, or maybe the kid didn't recognize the jump college was going to be. We also lost two of the 'Cams', but I recall one thinking he was going to get more time as a freshman, and left for greener pastures. The other I'm not sure has ended up anywhere. Both looked like excellent players, but apparently patience wasn't a virtue in at least one of the cases. Again, as a coach, I don't know what could be done to teach patience, but in my experience, a player has to see themselves as far better to not understand the guy who has been around a few years has an advantage. Woodyard I have no idea about other than our WR room has looked pretty pathetic the last couple of years, and the guy in charge of it is now gone. Pickering has too many behind the scenes drama to really understand what happened there, but it must have been substantial enough to put us without a kicker, and likely cost us at least 2 games. I have zero understanding of the issue, so I'm hard pressed to lay that on a coach. Bell, same spot as Woodyard, and he seemed long on attitude, and short on delivery. This one might be on Held, as I think he was the guy who had the relationship with the Juco coach. His film and ratings suggested he was a really good RB, but something never clicked.

Putting the defections on the staff for the 2017 misses ignores the fact that several of those guys just didn't fit the system, or weren't of a mindset to change in the manner that was expected. It's funny, in one breath I read guys who complained that Frost should have come in with a 'my way or the highway' attitude, and still others felt he didn't bend enough for the players. All that tells me is everyone has amazingly acute hindsight.


And seriously, if you are going to dredge up all the guys we've missed on that have gone on to have great careers with other teams, why not toss in Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Hatoli Ngata? All really liked us...right up until they didn't. With the exception of the guys who recently flaked, I'm actually pretty pleased with how we've worked the locals over the last few years. Don't get too caught up in the doom and gloom some are spouting. It's as dead a time a year as we've ever experienced, and people are going to analyze the crap out of stuff, which is fine, but we don't have much ability to change the perception with on campus visits, or games to showcase the opportunity. I haven't spent the time to learn about all these locals we don't have committed, but are any of them life long Hawkeye, Badger, Wildcat, Cyclone, Whatever fans? I've never understood the arrogance we as fans can have with our expectations for a kid to turn their backs on their favorite program just because we make an offer. Some do, and that's great, but plenty still want to chase the childhood dream as a Gopher...or whatever.

Keep in mind we are seeing a kid we thought was critical to land, ditch us for ASU, only to return to walk on. People don't realize how varying recruiting styles are. Some are pure used car, some are almost like evangelists. Others can walk into a room, all 5'9" of them, and act like they are Xerxes from 300, and that hooks some kids. I don't know what Scott does, but I'm betting it's pretty low key, but to the point. And don't put too much on losing a player to a school they have deep feelings for, like Watts. I have loved the Huskers my entire life, and I have my dad in the basketball HOF in Lincoln, but I promise you, my all time dream school was Duke, so if I'd been talented enough, I would have said 'see ya' to the Big Red and gone Blue Devil in a heartbeat (Think Bill Jackman). That wouldn't have been Iba's fault, it would have been a kid following a dream. That's what some players are doing, and we need to remember that.

Sorry if my post came off as doom and gloom. I usually pump the sunshine but I think the current state of Husker nation and the country at large has me seeing only the negative things right now. I'll shake it off soon as football season comes

And very true about the misses we've had. I tend to dwell too much on what could have been. Don't get me started playing the "what if" game. You'll be here all day.

But yes, I do think the 2019 and 2020 classes will be our cornerstone for the next several years. Hoping like hell we knocked recruiting out of the park those years.

 

[coherbie]

Big Red spring game FANdemonium, ongoing facility upgrade, (FNLs) + festivities are unique (especially fan turnout) & represent a significant cog in DONU's sales pitch - not an excuse - but had those things occurred, perhaps a happier spring all around.

nobody expects the spanish inquisition Covid

 

[ShortSideOption]

Agree. And another point I would like to add about filling large chunks of your class with kids in November and December, is that often times those kids haven't been vetted as thoroughly as the staff would like.

Those five guys you mentioned who were offered merely weeks before the early signing period are talented, no doubt about it. Brown and Mauga-Clements were four-stars who help make your class ranking look great. Heck, all five might be key contributors as early as this year.

But what a lot of people don't take into account is when you don't have time to get to know a kid; his background, his personality, his home life, his family structure, his attitude, his drive, his motivation, etc, often times that kid just isn't a fit for your culture. There's a reason coaches will tell you that it takes 18+ months to properly recruit a cycle. Coaches start getting to know kids during their sophomore year in high school. Kids - even ones who are four and five-star talents - that sign with a school they have a limited relationship with, statistically are more likely to transfer or just not be good fits and are considered misses.

Absolutely right, and i'll go back to the well again with this real-life example from a Pelini staffer:

"You have to do well in your radius and your state, because if you are relying on out of state kids to fill the class at the end, you can't do enough research. You end up getting a kid with a terrible family that can't even make it to fall camp."

We already lost one kid before summer even came from Florida, now we are having a tough time getting another Florida kid to come back up here and they literally have only been here for two practices.

 

[ShortSideOption]

I think you are assuming we aren't in contact with these guys far sooner. We may not have offered them, but I have a great deal of faith in a guy like Held that he's been doing his digging and behind the scenes diligence in finding out all he can on the kid. Not everyone is going to be perfect, but even when we have a 2 year courtship, we've seen guys fall by the wayside.

Held has great JUCO connections, we are lucky to have him and need to keep him. But I think assuming we are in contact with guys "far sooner" than when we offered (after our other targets committed elsewhere) is a little glass is half full for me. It's well documented we didn't even know about Mauga-Clements until November. Are we also of the opinion that we "are in contact far sooner" with Junior Aho, who got his offer in November, committed in November, then decommitted in December? What about Jamari Hodge who got offered in November, committed in November, but decommits a week later? Were we just busy vetting those guys all year, decided to offer, then couldn't keep their commitment for more than a couple weeks?

I appreciate the idea, but let's be honest, if you are offering someone in November or later with signing day in mid-December, you're missing on guys and their background check didn't just happen to get cleared. As @N2FL stated, the longer you have to build that bond and relationship and sell what you are giving them, the better your chances are. We are close to losing all of our four star DBs for the 2020 class before summer classes even start. Literally didn't even make it to fall camp or game 1.

 

[goodnterribles]

Absolutely right, and i'll go back to the well again with this real-life example from a Pelini staffer:

"You have to do well in your radius and your state, because if you are relying on out of state kids to fill the class at the end, you can't do enough research. You end up getting a kid with a terrible family that can't even make it to fall camp."

We already lost one kid before summer even came from Florida, now we are having a tough time getting another Florida kid to come back up here and they literally have only been here for two practices.

Oh lord, I don't like the sound of that.

 

[Bleed Red]

Held has great JUCO connections, we are lucky to have him and need to keep him. But I think assuming we are in contact with guys "far sooner" than when we offered (after our other targets committed elsewhere) is a little glass is half full for me. It's well documented we didn't even know about Mauga-Clements until November. Are we also of the opinion that we "are in contact far sooner" with Junior Aho, who got his offer in November, committed in November, then decommitted in December? What about Jamari Hodge who got offered in November, committed in November, but decommits a week later? Were we just busy vetting those guys all year, decided to offer, then couldn't keep their commitment for more than a couple weeks?

I appreciate the idea, but let's be honest, if you are offering someone in November or later with signing day in mid-December, you're missing on guys and their background check didn't just happen to get cleared. As @N2FL stated, the longer you have to build that bond and relationship and sell what you are giving them, the better your chances are. We are close to losing all of our four star DBs for the 2020 class before summer classes even start. Literally didn't even make it to fall camp or game 1.

IF there is going to be a de-commit from a player who commits in November, it is going to happen pretty quickly due to signing day. Is this really more damaging than a guy who commits in May and then decommits in December? The school "kept" the commit for 6 months, probably thought they were locked in a great place, and then the kid is gone. When a de-commit comes from a guy who was committed longer, does that also mean that player wasn't vetted properly?

Yes, it is important to do as much work as possible as early as possible,. Blaming someone for not doing enough work when a guy emerges late or maybe it was thought the player was not interested or destined for another school is a little silly. Let's look at the alternative. There is a guy who shows interest in coming to NU, he looks like a player on film and the coaches think he will help, but the background check isn't done. So NU should just not offer or not accept his commitment and let him go play for XYZ State? Previous coaches have been condemned pretty harshly for not signing the full number allowed.

It seems people are pretty happy right now NU got a punter from Australia and might get a JUCO CB, even after signing day. Are they going to feel the same way if they transfer next year because they were late offers and not vetted properly? I guess bottom line, it is really, really easy to sit back and judge, rationalize and criticize the performance of others while typing anonymously on a message board. Sure, some may have inside knowledge, but is it complete knowledge of all situations? If it is and they know they can do better, i hope they are applying for consultant, assistant coach and other positions in the program because we all want it to get better.

 

[ShortSideOption]

IF there is going to be a de-commit from a player who commits in November, it is going to happen pretty quickly due to signing day. Is this really more damaging than a guy who commits in May and then decommits in December? The school "kept" the commit for 6 months, probably thought they were locked in a great place, and then the kid is gone. When a de-commit comes from a guy who was committed longer, does that also mean that player wasn't vetted properly?

Yes, it is important to do as much work as possible as early as possible,. Blaming someone for not doing enough work when a guy emerges late or maybe it was thought the player was not interested or destined for another school is a little silly. Let's look at the alternative. There is a guy who shows interest in coming to NU, he looks like a player on film and the coaches think he will help, but the background check isn't done. So NU should just not offer or not accept his commitment and let him go play for XYZ State? Previous coaches have been condemned pretty harshly for not signing the full number allowed.

It seems people are pretty happy right now NU got a punter from Australia and might get a JUCO CB, even after signing day. Are they going to feel the same way if they transfer next year because they were late offers and not vetted properly? I guess bottom line, it is really, really easy to sit back and judge, rationalize and criticize the performance of others while typing anonymously on a message board. Sure, some may have inside knowledge, but is it complete knowledge of all situations? If it is and they know they can do better, i hope they are applying for consultant, assistant coach and other positions in the program because we all want it to get better.

I just think you have less decommits when the guy stayed with you thru the whole recruiting process. Some guy you found late in the process is typically there for a reason. Sometimes it's good reasons like academic hurdles or other things. But let's not act like Payne, Cooper, Mauga, Aho, Hodge, Riley, and Butler were guys we were just courting the entire time and they finally pulled the trigger.

Not sure I was blaming anyone for not doing enough work or a guy emerging late, so hopefully "silly" wasn't pointed at me. I'm just pointing out that when you have to fill your class late in the cycle because you struck out and have to get commits from guys you only started talking to 30 days prior to their signature, that gets dicey. And again, i'm only referencing what Nebraska coaches have told me.

To your example, no, you can absolutely offer him if you think he is worthy. That's a way different scenario then what I was discussing. Unsure how we got here, we can start a different thread about that if you would like.

I would tell you that our JUCO CB is happening because we are close to losing 2 DBs out of our 2020 class. We were actually going after JUCO WRs. So now we are having to choose which position to go grab due to transfers from a class that inked 6 months ago. If the second DB leaves from Florida, we only have 4 scholarship safeties for 2020.

I can tell you I have complete knowledge of when we started talking to 50% of those guys from the 2020 class, when we offered them, and that we offered them because we missed out on guys or had them decommit. I can tell you it's why when someone tells me it's ok that we lose Dickerson or Johnson in the 2021 class because we "we can get dozens their caliber from Florida" I mock them because our two four star DBs from Florida from the 2020 class aren't even here right now.

I can promise you it's better to have local guys committed in May like Johnson and Dickerson as opposed to missing on them and having to go get guys from 1500 miles away in November and December. That takes away from coaching during the season. Heck, on a recruiting weekend where we had 5 or so visitors here our head coach and DC took a private jet up to Minnesota to recruit a LB at the same time. He ended up committing elsewhere so that let one of the other guys commit. I would call that less than ideal.

I guess to summarize, let's not act like having to get 10 commits in one week and two recruiting weekends is where we want to be. I don't feel like i'm going out on a limb there. The coaches don't want to be in that spot again either. Lets also not forget that we were still two spots short for the 2020 class, and if you take out Francois, Gray, and Spielman we are sitting at 78 scholarships before summer hits.

 

[BubbaGene]

Francois, Gray... I don't even know who these guys are and they are already gone.... ... What is going on with Floribraska?